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Ircc is making students depressed

GradStudent18

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Nov 11, 2019
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No no it's not as clear as you're saying please...for instance, how can I know whether my reasons will satisfy the border officer? There's no set parameters that I know, by which I can determine that. I should go by my judgement & good sense & understanding. But what if that's not according to what they expect or what they'll agree with? It's definitely not as simple or easy. The link you gave is only talking about very rudimentary factors and doesn't give much in detail. I still want clarity & there's lack of information since at the end of the day, it comes down to the discretion of the officer. It is confusing for me at least.

What about those with an already issued approval, some online classes, plus in-person graduate lab work for a thesis? The data server on campus which is a critical input in studies? What if the time zone difference is about 12/13 hours making it difficult for connecting with the thesis supervisor? The instructions are not clear for those who do have reasons like these to be on campus.
 
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GradStudent18

Hero Member
Nov 11, 2019
408
167
How will I know whether my reasons to enter will be deemed compelling enough? The online vs in-class argument doesn't make much sense at the graduate level where there's labs, seminars, software work, on-campus databases, etc. to deal with. It's truly uncertain as the list of essential reasons on the website does not make any mention of graduate lab or thesis-based research work.
 
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Islander216

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Nov 27, 2019
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You need guidance from your university not IRCC.

The question is simple: can you complete all the requirements of your courses for the fall semester online? if yes, you should do that and not try to enter Canada.

If you can't, then your institution should tell you this clearly, so that you can provide a detailed explanation to an immigration officer to convince them that your travel to Canada is non-discretionary.

Canada is actually being flexible and allowing some international students to enter if they absolutely need to for their courses, but it shouldn't mean that this is somehow an uncertainty for others. If you know you can do your courses online then you should not be planning to travel to Canada for the fall semester.
 
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Bishops2020

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Aug 8, 2020
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If you have study permit approved before 18th March, to get on the plane, you should have :
travel support letter from the university to prove your entry is for an essential purpose - my daughter's is 4 pages
point of entry letter proving the sp is approved - my daughter hasn't got this so cannot travel
quarantine plan - my daughter's is 4 pages

If I had all 3 of these documents, I would buy a plane ticket and travel.
 
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ohbruh

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Jul 25, 2020
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How will I know whether my reasons to enter will be deemed compelling enough? The online vs in-class argument doesn't make much sense at the graduate level where there's labs, seminars, software work, on-campus databases, etc. to deal with. It's truly uncertain as the list of essential reasons on the website does not make any mention of graduate lab or thesis-based research work.
I truly understand your concerns. Did you ask your supervisor to provide you a support letter? A signed letter describes your duties on campus (lab work, or GRA/GTA) from professor would make things easy for you at the port of entry.
 

phuongdong

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Jun 27, 2020
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You need guidance from your university not IRCC.

The question is simple: can you complete all the requirements of your courses for the fall semester online? if yes, you should do that and not try to enter Canada.

If you can't, then your institution should tell you this clearly, so that you can provide a detailed explanation to an immigration officer to convince them that your travel to Canada is non-discretionary.

Canada is actually being flexible and allowing some international students to enter if they absolutely need to for their courses, but it shouldn't mean that this is somehow an uncertainty for others. If you know you can do your courses online then you should not be planning to travel to Canada for the fall semester.
I think IRCC guidance does not take into account specific case for students. There are not all colleges or universities that have online courses for students. For instance, a medical student definitely is not able to do intake for this semester because courses in medicine require lab & practical in-person component. And my case is very similar: I am a grad student and I am supposed to start my research & thesis as long as I get to Canada. What needs to be in my research components and studies: TA/RA duties (require to be present in Canada); accessing to lab component & database; taking grad courses. Except for the last one I can take remote courses, the first two are not possible. Does that mean IRCC make obstacle to students in similar conditions that I am experiencing? I understand that Canada wants to control the number of people coming in, but a more specific guidance should be implemented. Also, not many grad student as far as I know from my school have got their study permit & visa =.= so they are depressed about their future as I do.
 
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GradStudent18

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Nov 11, 2019
408
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You need guidance from your university not IRCC.

The question is simple: can you complete all the requirements of your courses for the fall semester online? if yes, you should do that and not try to enter Canada.

If you can't, then your institution should tell you this clearly, so that you can provide a detailed explanation to an immigration officer to convince them that your travel to Canada is non-discretionary.

Canada is actually being flexible and allowing some international students to enter if they absolutely need to for their courses, but it shouldn't mean that this is somehow an uncertainty for others. If you know you can do your courses online then you should not be planning to travel to Canada for the fall semester.
I wish it was that simple. It's definitely not possible to complete everything online.

Students have actually entered (I know real accounts, not from social media/online sources), without a compelling reason to enter (i.e., with fully online classes). It is not that only those with an absolutely essential reason to enter are entering. Others are too. Though the website says otherwise. This makes me question what I should do, even though I have in-person lab work.

This means it's not a level-playing field. There was also a news piece posted here which said there's massive confusion right now. While those with other genuine reasons aren't getting the support letter required to prove that their presence is "essential", though the student's effort is to obtain such a document. There is indeed uncertainty and confusion right now.

The article posted even mentioned that the uncertainty and confusion is somehow making it seem as though things are okay, when looked at from the outside. It just "seems" flexible, but it's all only confusing and unclear.

I understand what you mean though. At the end of the day, we need to assess the situation & do what what we think is best / correct given the rules. However, I still wish there was more information and clarity from IRCC.
 
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Bishops2020

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Aug 8, 2020
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Do you have a letter of support from your university, a quarantine plan, an approval of study permit from before 18th March? If you do, then you are very lucky and you should get on a plane and travel.
 
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GradStudent18

Hero Member
Nov 11, 2019
408
167
If you have study permit approved before 18th March, to get on the plane, you should have :
travel support letter from the university to prove your entry is for an essential purpose - my daughter's is 4 pages
point of entry letter proving the sp is approved - my daughter hasn't got this so cannot travel
quarantine plan - my daughter's is 4 pages

If I had all 3 of these documents, I would buy a plane ticket and travel.
Yeah I agree. The effort is to get such a travel support letter document from the University. But it seems, as a rule, many public Universities aren't issuing this as far as I understand. There could be exceptions though.
 

phuongdong

Hero Member
Jun 27, 2020
204
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Canada
Category........
STUDY
I wish it was that simple. It's definitely not possible to complete everything online.

Students have actually entered (I know real accounts, not from social media/online sources), without a compelling reason to enter (i.e., with fully online classes). It is not that only those with an absolutely essential reason to enter are entering. Others are too. Though the website says otherwise. This makes me question what I should do, even though I have in-person lab work.

This means it's not a level-playing field. There was also a news piece posted here which said there's massive confusion right now. While those with other genuine reasons aren't getting the support letter required to prove that their presence is "essential", though the student's effort is to obtain such a document. There is indeed uncertainty and confusion right now.

The article posted even mentioned that the uncertainty and confusion is somehow making it seem as though things are okay, when looked at from the outside. It just "seems" flexible, but it's all only confusing and unclear.

I understand what you mean though. At the end of the day, we need to assess the situation & do what what we think is best / correct given the rules. However, I still wish there was more information and clarity from IRCC.
I understand ur difficulties. Take a look at this case: . He is in the same of my program and the courses are online this fall - which is not essential reason at overall. Anyway, if I am in similar circumstance, I will also try. He is able to cross the border because of travelling from US.
 
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GradStudent18

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Nov 11, 2019
408
167
I truly understand your concerns. Did you ask your supervisor to provide you a support letter? A signed letter describes your duties on campus (lab work, or GRA/GTA) from professor would make things easy for you at the port of entry.
Thanks a lot for the empathy and understanding! Exactly! That's my exact requirement which states my on-campus components. The effort is to get such a document - I'm trying. Let's see when / whether they give.
 

Islander216

Champion Member
Nov 27, 2019
2,110
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I think IRCC guidance does not take into account specific case for students. There are not all colleges or universities that have online courses for students. For instance, a medical student definitely is not able to do intake for this semester because courses in medicine require lab & practical in-person component. And my case is very similar: I am a grad student and I am supposed to start my research & thesis as long as I get to Canada. What needs to be in my research components and studies: TA/RA duties (require to be present in Canada); accessing to lab component & database; taking grad courses. Except for the last one I can take remote courses, the first two are not possible. Does that mean IRCC make obstacle to students in similar conditions that I am experiencing? I understand that Canada wants to control the number of people coming in, but a more specific guidance should be implemented. Also, not many grad student as far as I know from my school have got their study permit & visa =.= so they are depressed about their future as I do.
Completely understand your situation, but i feel like the university is abdicating responsibility by not issuing a letter of support if they and you both know that you can't complete your course requirements without being physically present in Canada.

IRCC can't issue guidance for each and every type of student, this is not really possible. They have stated what the type of reasons you can provide to prove that your travel is non-discretionary.

I wish it was that simple. It's definitely not possible to complete everything online.

Students have actually entered (I know real accounts, not from social media/online sources), without a compelling reason to enter (i.e., with fully online classes). It is not that only those with an absolutely essential reason to enter are entering. Others are too. Though the website says otherwise. This makes me question what I should do, even though I have in-person lab work.

This means it's not a level-playing field. There was also a news piece posted here which said there's massive confusion right now. While those with other genuine reasons aren't getting the support letter required to prove that their presence is "essential", though the student's effort is to obtain such a document. There is indeed uncertainty and confusion right now.

The article posted even mentioned that the uncertainty and confusion is somehow making it seem as though things are okay, when looked at from the outside. It just "seems" flexible, but it's all only confusing and unclear.

I understand what you mean though. At the end of the day, we need to assess the situation & do what what we think is best / correct given the rules. However, I still wish there was more information and clarity from IRCC.
You see, but you're not being confused by the guidance, you're being confused by what you perceive as inconsistencies from other people's experiences.

Again, it's up to the immigration officer's discretion whether or not they admit someone into the country. Some people gamble and get in and some people gamble and don't.

But the guidance is clear, you shouldn't point to other people's experiences as a reason to undermine the guidance. This is why i addressed this as well, the idea of comparing your situation to someone else's.

That's why the first thing i said was, it's really up to them whether they let you in or not. The only thing you can control is whether you have gathered enough evidence to show you really, legitimately need to travel to Canada for your coursework.

I understand how this can seem unfair, but this is always the case. You can get a visitor visa and do everything right, if an immigration officer decides to refuse you entry to the country, there's not much you can do about it. They will still have to justify it in some way, but they have very wide discretion on doing this.

But that's not just the case in Canada, that's pretty much everywhere in the world. But i understand the frustration.
 
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GradStudent18

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Nov 11, 2019
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I understand ur difficulties. Take a look at this case: . He is in the same of my program and the courses are online this fall - which is not essential reason at overall. Anyway, if I am in similar circumstance, I will also try. He is able to cross the border because of travelling from US.
Exactly! This person's from the US - so maybe a lot of the issues get sorted automatically or are less pronounced and less stringent. They may not be actively enforcing the "essential" condition for those who come from the US. I don't know and that doesn't concern me either. But I want to get more information and some clarity at least for the other students, who come from places other than the US.
 
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GradStudent18

Hero Member
Nov 11, 2019
408
167
Completely understand your situation, but i feel like the university is abdicating responsibility by not issuing a letter of support if they and you both know that you can't complete your course requirements without being physically present in Canada.

IRCC can't issue guidance for each and every type of student, this is not really possible. They have stated what the type of reasons you can provide to prove that your travel is non-discretionary.



You see, but you're not being confused by the guidance, you're being confused by what you see as inconsistencies from other people's experiences.

Again, it's up to the immigration officer's discretion whether or not they admit someone into the country. Some people gamble and get in and some people game and don't.

But the guidance is clear, you shouldn't point to other people's experiences as a reason for to undermine the guidance.

That's why the first thing i said was, it's really up to them whether they let you in or not. The only thing you can control is whether you have gathered enough evidence to show you really, legitimately need to travel to Canada for your coursework.
I just cited other experiences as an additional point. In my position, after talking with the International Student Office at the university, I feel that the guidance is unclear yet for graduate level lab / thesis-based research work. I guess you're assuming that everyone who says they're unsure is automatically not having a real, legitimate reason to want to travel. I can only say it's not that straight or simple. I can't also not look at all at the experiences of others who've travelled till now. It isn't easy to ignore everything in entirety. It's perhaps the only evidence we have of getting to know how the guidelines are applied. We aren't living in isolation to not look at others' experiences at all. I do not want to take the risk and travel if it's clear that I'm not supposed to travel. It isn't clear to me. Maybe it is for others. I can only speak for myself.
 
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GradStudent18

Hero Member
Nov 11, 2019
408
167
I think IRCC guidance does not take into account specific case for students. There are not all colleges or universities that have online courses for students. For instance, a medical student definitely is not able to do intake for this semester because courses in medicine require lab & practical in-person component. And my case is very similar: I am a grad student and I am supposed to start my research & thesis as long as I get to Canada. What needs to be in my research components and studies: TA/RA duties (require to be present in Canada); accessing to lab component & database; taking grad courses. Except for the last one I can take remote courses, the first two are not possible. Does that mean IRCC make obstacle to students in similar conditions that I am experiencing? I understand that Canada wants to control the number of people coming in, but a more specific guidance should be implemented. Also, not many grad student as far as I know from my school have got their study permit & visa =.= so they are depressed about their future as I do.
Did the University give an official travel support letter stating that your "physical presence is mandatory" for the fall term? That should help, right?