Interview Issues on Day of the Citizenship Test

[gogunner]

Hello All,

I am hoping someone will be able to provide me some good feedback on what to do. Kind of exhausted all the options I can think of at this point.

On the day of the test, I wrote the test at the Scarborough IRCC Office. After waiting for a few minutes, I was called for the interview/documents verification process by the officer. My situation is such that over the past 5 years I have had at least 120+ trips to the US due to my work. I travel to the US typically on Monday morning and fly back on Thursday evening. Despite this schedule, I still met my physical stay requirements (3 out of 5). However the officer seemed to think the day you leave Canada would not be counted as a "Day" which is completely contradicting what is mentioned on the CIC site. As far as I understand what is written on the site, it counts as day as long as you have spent some time in the country within the 24 hour day. I did raise this multiple times that this is not how CIC has defined it and the officer in question had no idea. Mentioned something about how it is determined by where you slept!!! Totally weird and I pushed back. She brushed it aside saying okay. Hope this does not come back and screw me, but can someone confirm my understanding on the Physical Days Logic and what can I do to escalate this.

Moving on, because I had multiple out of country trips and the fact that I had Nexus the officer was not able to validate my entry and exits. So the officer basically asked me to provide proof of my time in Canada. Now as far as I understand IRCC can get this information from CBSA as long as I have checked the waver option in my application to share this information. I mentioned this and the officer said it is not IRCC's responsibility and it was my responsibility to prove this. Also mentioned they do not have the privileges to get this information from CBSA. Has this happened to anyone? Also any idea of what I can do? The officer did not provide any ways for me to get this information as well.

I have raised a request with CBSA through right to information, but even on the CBSA website it clearly states do not raise this request for travel history if this is for Citizenship because IRCC has to do this. It is explicitly called out and this IRCC officer does not seem to know the process. Also for any of you guys who have been doing frequent trips to US and in the same boat, is there a way to get a travel history from US? I have raised a request in US as well through FOIA but it says processing time is 60+ business days.

I called CIC and they said this has to be dealt with my Scarborough IRCC. Unfortunately, this IRCC office is by appointment only, so I really do not know how to escalate this. I have been given 30 days to prove my time in Canada with Entry / Exit information (an official document). Even the i94 website has only the last 99 trips in the past 5 years and as a result that also does not help.

Sorry for the long email.

 

[ChippyBoy]

FWIW, I do recall an officer/official once telling me about the "it's about where you slept" thing/working-rule-of-thumb for a residency determination bit, but I think that that's for the CRA's determination of taxation residency in Canada, not for the CIC/IRCC's physical presence purposes for PR/citizenship calculations, but I may be wrong on this. I'm not an expert BTW, hehe. Anyhow, the Nexus thing may or may not be registered by the CBSA, I'm not sure; but it would almost certainly be registered & recorded by the US authorities (DHS?). I wouldn't push back or argue with the interviewing CIC/IRCC officer ever (they'll all have had conflict minimisation/management training, so their interactions & responses & behaviours will be moderated/suppressed and thus won't give you the real situation in terms of their thinking/concerns/rationalisations from their perspective, rather they'll just conflict-minimise and move on), just make every effort to stay calm, even if you're feeling a rise of panic strickenness, and try to focus and ask all of your questions in a positive frame of mind about how to move things forward on your application while you're in her/his presence. (Heaven knows that they're damned difficult fish to get to talk to or communicate with once you've left the interview room.) Have you tried talking to the staffer responsible for immigration matters at your local MP's office? In terms of the CIC/IRCC's 30day submission rule, just at least send them something within that time frame, along with a letter explaining that you need more time to wait for your US FOIA thing to come back. Good luck.

 

[gogunner]

FWIW, I do recall an officer/official once telling me about the "it's about where you slept" thing/working-rule-of-thumb for a residency determination bit, but I think that that's for the CRA's determination of taxation residency in Canada, not for the CIC/IRCC's physical presence purposes for PR/citizenship calculations, but I may be wrong on this. I'm not an expert BTW, hehe. Anyhow, the Nexus thing may or may not be registered by the CBSA, I'm not sure; but it would almost certainly be registered & recorded by the US authorities (DHS?). I wouldn't push back or argue with the interviewing CIC/IRCC officer ever (they'll all have had conflict minimisation/management training, so their interactions & responses & behaviours will be moderated/suppressed and thus won't give you the real situation in terms of their thinking/concerns/rationalisations from their perspective, rather they'll just conflict-minimise and move on), just make every effort to stay calm, even if you're feeling a rise of panic strickenness, and try to focus and ask all of your questions in a positive frame of mind about how to move things forward on your application while you're in her/his presence. (Heaven knows that they're damned difficult fish to get to talk to or communicate with once you've left the interview room.) Have you tried talking to the staffer responsible for immigration matters at your local MP's office? In terms of the CIC/IRCC's 30day submission rule, just at least send them something within that time frame, along with a letter explaining that you need more time to wait for your US FOIA thing to come back. Good luck.

Thanks for the quick reply. Yes, I did not argue and took it all in. Did politely try to get my point across that she was wrong when it comes to the rule for physical days. I am not really worried about that one, if it becomes an issue I will probably seek legal options as it contradicts the rule. Regarding the travel history, I am really worried as I do not know what kind of information is in the CBSA report that I have requested. Likewise with FOIA, until I see it won't really know if this is all they will need.

Reaching out to the local MP seems like a good option and I am going to explore that as well in parallel.

 

[dpenabill]

My situation is such that over the past 5 years I have had at least 120+ trips to the US due to my work. I travel to the US typically on Monday morning and fly back on Thursday evening. Despite this schedule, I still met my physical stay requirements (3 out of 5). However the officer seemed to think the day you leave Canada would not be counted as a "Day" which is completely contradicting what is mentioned on the CIC site. As far as I understand what is written on the site, it counts as day as long as you have spent some time in the country within the 24 hour day.

Mentioned something about how it is determined by where you slept!!

Moving on, because I had multiple out of country trips and the fact that I had Nexus the officer was not able to validate my entry and exits. So the officer basically asked me to provide proof of my time in Canada. Now as far as I understand IRCC can get this information from CBSA as long as I have checked the waver option in my application to share this information. I mentioned this and the officer said it is not IRCC's responsibility and it was my responsibility to prove this.

I have raised a request with CBSA through right to information, but even on the CBSA website it clearly states do not raise this request for travel history if this is for Citizenship because IRCC has to do this. It is explicitly called out and this IRCC officer does not seem to know the process.

Did politely try to get my point across that she was wrong when it comes to the rule for physical days. I am not really worried about that one, if it becomes an issue I will probably seek legal options as it contradicts the rule. Regarding the travel history, I am really worried as I do not know what kind of information is in the CBSA report that I have requested.

The interviewer or IRCC processing agent PROBABLY understands and will apply the rules CORRECTLY. Which is to say, odds are high that IRCC will give you credit for the dates you PROVE you entered Canada and the date you PROVE you were in Canada as a date you exited. To be clear, this will be credit for the dates YOU prove. IRCC will not go about collecting evidence to prove your case for you. The burden of proof is on you. IRCC will examine other sources, like using its access to the CBSA travel history, BUT that is to verify the accuracy of the dates you declare . . . in other words, that is to look for inconsistent information.

BUT you may also end up having to PROVE you were in Canada the days in-between the date you entered Canada and next date you exited Canada. This can be the tougher proposition, especially if your work history shows you were outside Canada much of almost every week and where you slept most nights was outside Canada.

Odds are high there is some communication misunderstanding. Odds are high the interviewer's references to questions about where you slept were about the reasonable inference that where a person resides and spends most of his or her time is the place where he or she most often sleeps.

It is not complicated: if you were sleeping more nights of the week outside Canada (four out of seven), most weeks, AND working outside Canada, IRCC will reasonably need to have more direct proof of your ACTUAL PHYSICAL PRESENCE in Canada. This will of course need to involve BOTH proof as to dates of entry and exit, and proof of actual presence in Canada during the days between an date of entry and next reported date of exit. And the burden of proving this information is on YOU.

If so far all they are asking for is documentation of dates of entry and exit as shown in CBSA and U.S. records, that is actually a good sign. My sense is that your scenario is one for which the risk of a full-blown RQ (CIT 0171) or similar (it is possible that IRCC is now using a PPQ CIT 0205 questionnaire for presence-cases) is inherently high, given the reasonable inference that you were more likely to be in the U.S. rather than in Canada for any dates not conclusively proven to be in Canada. Indeed, my sense is that unless you have already been issued and responded to RQ or similar, there is a significant chance that is what will happen next, that you will be asked to complete a rather extensive questionnaire and submit additional documentation supporting your case.

FOR NOW: make the applications for both the U.S. records and the CBSA travel history. Odds are you will not have either within 30 days, so you will need to send IRCC (local office) correspondence stating that you have made requests for this documentation and will forward it to IRCC as soon as you have it.

WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT: Assuming you have NOT yet been required to submit RQ (or similar questionnaire, such as a PPQ, that is a Physical Presence Questionnaire), the possible next step could be:

-- you are surprised and receive notice to attend the oath (it is possible that after a review of your application, interview responses, and CBSA travel history (internally or your submission if they wait for that), the responsible citizenship officer will approve your application and you will scheduled to take the oath

-- you are issued RQ or similar questionnaire, which will require you to submit extensive information and documentation related to not only your presence, but property ownership and work and businesses and such, for BOTH such information about in Canada interests and OUTSIDE Canada interests and activities

How this will go will depend on many specific factors and circumstances in your particular case.

Note: I have recently discussed, in some depth, the fact that it is NOT likely IRCC will use your CBSA travel history to reconstruct a calculation . . see . . .

NOTE: it is NOT likely IRCC will use your CBSA travel history to reconstruct a calculation:

IRCC primarily refers to an applicant's CBSA travel history to check the accuracy of the applicant's declarations. Obviously, if you omitted trips during the five year eligibility period, IRCC will discover your Presence Calculation is NOT accurate, that there are omissions.

Again depending on other factors, especially factors relevant to the strength of your case overall, with consideration for the number of apparent omissions and their general impact, perhaps you will be lucky and the local office processing agent will conscientiously review all the information, including passport stamps and CBSA travel history, and precisely deduct absences to determine if, after deducting those absences, you were still present in Canada more than 1095 days (counting full days for days after landing; half credit for days before landing). And assuming that is the conclusion the processing agent reaches, then schedule you for the oath.

That could happen. If the total number of omitted absences is not a particularly large number, there is a fair chance this happens.

However, the more trips that were omitted, or the more days absent omitted, the less likely this happens.

The risk is that IRCC will determine YOUR ACCOUNT OF PRESENCE/ABSENCE IS NOT RELIABLE and if IRCC determines your account of presence is not sufficiently reliable to meet the burden of proving presence, it will give you an opportunity to submit further information and evidence to prove your case. That is what the RQ or PPQ process is about.

There is a significant risk this, that is some version of RQ or PPQ, is what will happen.


Reminder: Applicant's account of travel dates is the best source, so if the applicant's account is determined to be NOT reliable, that can be a real problem.

There appears to be a tendency among a constituency of forum participants to put way too much weight on other sources of information as to an individual's presence calculation, such as the CBSA travel history.

The one best source for this information is the PR himself. He was there. He was there each and every time. He is the ONE PERSON IN THE WORLD, THE ONE BEST SOURCE IN THE WORLD, for this information.

So, if that information turns out to be less than accurate, and particularly if it turns out that the extent of inaccuracy indicates that source does NOT provide a reliable accounting, THAT IS A PROBLEM. Remember: IRCC looks at the CBSA history mostly to see if there is any indication the applicant failed to accurately report all travel. IRCC will not, not usually anyway, go through the CBSA report in an effort to see if the applicant has enough days to meet the requirement. It goes through the CBSA report to see if it can rely on the applicant's accounting of days.

 

[ZingyDNA]

I think it used to be that any partial day spent outside of Canada would NOT count as a physical residence day for citizenship (but did count for PR). The new bill changed that. I think IRCC should of better trained their officers when there was a rule change.

 

[ibry]

Thanks for the quick reply. Yes, I did not argue and took it all in. Did politely try to get my point across that she was wrong when it comes to the rule for physical days. I am not really worried about that one, if it becomes an issue I will probably seek legal options as it contradicts the rule. Regarding the travel history, I am really worried as I do not know what kind of information is in the CBSA report that I have requested. Likewise with FOIA, until I see it won't really know if this is all they will need.

Reaching out to the local MP seems like a good option and I am going to explore that as well in parallel.

WHAT about your flight tickets and receipts for flights? You can include those too check your email for those

 

[kimat]

You can get your travel history to the US from the following link:

https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/#/history-search