International students

[kirtivsingh]

so u had enough money to make indian experience , whereas some don't because they already spend most of their money paying their college fees

Bro i hope those some you talking about are having easy life, coz the harships I have seen and that caused me to work at an early age with full time school. So you may think it as an advantage now but i have gained it through my blood sweat. i earned my school fees for canada with my foriegn experience because I planned it properly back in the days.
So i would just say don't judge somebody whom you don't know.

 

[lisizi]

Bro i hope those some you talking about are having easy life, coz the harships I have seen and that caused me to work at an early age with full time school. So you may think it as an advantage now but i have gained it through my blood sweat. i earned my school fees for canada with my foriegn experience because I planned it properly back in the days.
So i would just say don't judge somebody whom you don't know.

Yes, same here. Life has not been a piece of cake AT ALL!!
Many people judge me based on my appearance and for some reason they think I had it all for free. Just close friends know my real story and they say I am a survivor and a very strong woman!

 

[Itsmee]

Why provincial nominee is a whole different story in AB? Could you please share?

You need either a degree from Alberta or a full time permanent job in AB to apply. Also, it takes way longer to nominate like over a year. I am in Alberta with temp job and have studied from NS therefore not eligible. Sitting with 452

 

[kateg]

Hahah... this comment is so frigging funny.. My friend, you have to graduate the program not passing "few classes"... What are you trying to say here? are you mocking the quality of Canadian education?

Not at all. You get what you want out of it. If you want an education, you can get one. If you want fluff classes from an easy school, you can get that, too. This is why Harper rolled out the designated learning institution list:

http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2012/2012-12-29/html/reg1-eng.html

Despite these successes, the ISP continues to be vulnerable to fraud and abuse from those who would exploit for personal gain either study permit holders or the program itself. ...

Citizenship and Immigration Canada and CBSA have identified concerns related to work undertaken by international students attending some private unregulated educational institutions. The ISP has been abused by these educational institutions and complicit employers have misused the ISP in order to facilitate the entry of low-skilled workers into the Canadian labour market. While current Regulations allow international students to access limited work opportunities during studies under international student work permit programs (on-campus, off-campus and co-op/internship programs), in some cases, non-genuine students use their study permit as a primary means to gain full access to the Canadian labour market.

This is why we get consultants like this:

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-bar-food-hospitality-jobs/edmonton/immigration-lmia-lmo-expiring-get-open-work-permit-0-no-fees/1124550151

They refer you to a school that's easy, just to get you a work permit.

This way of thinking is actually the devil that caused "mess" in express entry system. But anyway, whatever you say, the government, fortunately, realized the mistake made by the Idiot immigration minister before.

The liberals bought votes, and are harming the country they are supposed to serve. It wasn't a mistake, it was an attempt to fix abuses. When Tim Hortons is turning away Canadians to hire foreigners, there's a problem.

I DO NOT NEED TO BE A CITIZEN TO CONTRIBUTE TO CANADA

Of course not. However, Canada is supposed to put Canadians first, and until you and I are Citizens, that does not mean us. Canada won't do that by scraping the bottom of the barrel and hiring unqualified people just because they coughed up some money to take a few classes.

 

[kateg]

Well, it's your fault that you chose a bad college to study where everyone can cheat. In my university, there's a grade lower than F for anyone that cheat/plagiarize on assignments or project, you will be failed immediately from the course, and if you cheat on final project or practicum, you are kicked out of the program. Period.

It's the fault of the system that it treats both colleges the same. At my school, I had to fight to keep TurnItIn from being mandatory. It's a system where everything you write is put into a database ran by a US company, and they sell access to your papers to schools. Why does the school do it? Cheating. Almost all of the cheating is from international students from a few countries.

Unfortunately, a degree from a country (or school) with high amounts of cheating is treated exactly the same as a degree from a school that doesn't have that problem. Even when they don't cheat, there are still problems. The college I attended (Douglas) has a policy emphasizing group work, as they feel that better reflects the work environment in Canada. What that means, however, is that much of the grades are based on group participation.

I've had several groups so far where my classmates could barely speak English, and had no desire to work whatsoever. I carried the group and did most of the work, because if I didn't, my grade would suffer. They didn't "cheat" - they just didn't do the work. In my Entrepeneurship class (for example), it was necessary to have a group in order to get credit - the fact that my other group members didn't even show up wasn't a factor. If I didn't submit it as a "group effort", I would fail the assignment, and with the percentage of the grade that it represented, that meant I would fail the course.

These people aren't the best, or the brightest, and Canada will do itself a tremendous disservice prioritizing them over someone abroad who has worked hard to develop their skills and experience.

The current system (of requiring them to graduate and find a job) at least helps weed out some of the idiots.

 

[kateg]

Oh my holy God, are you being serious tho? What kind of "college" is that? I can't believe it. These are the stuffs that came into my mind directly after reading your comment

1. How did they get into this college

Douglas college requires you to meet one of the following requirements:

BC secondary school graduation (or the equivalent in another school system)
One course short of BC secondary school graduation
19 years old by the end of the first month of the first semester of attendance
17 years old on the first day of the first semester of attendance and has not been in school for at least one year
Completion of a certificate or equivalent from a special needs program and has been in school for 12 years

There is an English requirement:

Minimum IELTS score of 3.0 in Reading, Writing, Listening and Speaking (Academic Module only),

This is the kind of college that many of these students come to.

2. What is the academic standard in this college. Plagiarism and cheating are unforgivable sins in academic world. At least in my university, they can rip off your degree even after you graduate if they know that you did such thing during your study.

Cheating is rampant, and instructors are limited in what they can do about it. I've personally watched numerous examples of cheating, and the penalties are light. The first two times you are caught, the penalty is typically to retake the test or redo the assignment:

https://www.douglascollege.ca/~/media/27C599ABC76048A0A713648565906273.ashx

They can withdraw you from the course or fail you out, but it generally doesn't happen. Much of the cheating is done by having someone else do the work for you, and teachers are limited in how much they are supposed to make the tests worth. It's quite possible to pass classes while still failing the tests if you do the homework, particularly with group work. A score of 60% is a C.

3. What kind of course are you talking about? Is it just one or two subjects short course program? I don't think it's eligible for Express entry or even PGWP

Using Douglas again, you can take "General Studies":

https://www.douglascollege.ca/programs-courses/catalogue/programs/DPGENS

You need one English class, can take up to 15 credits of remedial/upgrading classes (really, really easy ones), then fill the rest with filler. It gets you a PGWP, and is a public school that qualifies for Express Entry.

4. Even If this kind of college/university really exists. I think we should inform the government to close it down. It is a shame for Canadian education.

It's an affordable college, that is designed to be accessible. Douglas has (for example) a significant special needs community - they have the right to seek education, too. Not everyone is qualified to be a knowledge worker.

This is some of the disconnect between those of us who see international students as qualified versus those that see them as unqualified. Spend a few semesters at Douglas, and you will understand exactly why someone getting a Canadian degree doesn't make them qualified.

 

[kirtivsingh]

It's the fault of the system that it treats both colleges the same. At my school, I had to fight to keep TurnItIn from being mandatory. It's a system where everything you write is put into a database ran by a US company, and they sell access to your papers to schools. Why does the school do it? Cheating. Almost all of the cheating is from international students from a few countries.

Unfortunately, a degree from a country (or school) with high amounts of cheating is treated exactly the same as a degree from a school that doesn't have that problem. Even when they don't cheat, there are still problems. The college I attended (Douglas) has a policy emphasizing group work, as they feel that better reflects the work environment in Canada. What that means, however, is that much of the grades are based on group participation.

I've had several groups so far where my classmates could barely speak English, and had no desire to work whatsoever. I carried the group and did most of the work, because if I didn't, my grade would suffer. They didn't "cheat" - they just didn't do the work. In my Entrepeneurship class (for example), it was necessary to have a group in order to get credit - the fact that my other group members didn't even show up wasn't a factor. If I didn't submit it as a "group effort", I would fail the assignment, and with the percentage of the grade that it represented, that meant I would fail the course.

These people aren't the best, or the brightest, and Canada will do itself a tremendous disservice prioritizing them over someone abroad who has worked hard to develop their skills and experience.

The current system (of requiring them to graduate and find a job) at least helps weed out some of the idiots.

So you do support my pervious comment!

TurnItIn is mandatory in all major colleges and universities. But i have seen that getting fooled on a regular basis.

 

[RamsayBolton]

It's the fault of the system that it treats both colleges the same. At my school, I had to fight to keep TurnItIn from being mandatory. It's a system where everything you write is put into a database ran by a US company, and they sell access to your papers to schools. Why does the school do it? Cheating. Almost all of the cheating is from international students from a few countries.

Unfortunately, a degree from a country (or school) with high amounts of cheating is treated exactly the same as a degree from a school that doesn't have that problem. Even when they don't cheat, there are still problems. The college I attended (Douglas) has a policy emphasizing group work, as they feel that better reflects the work environment in Canada. What that means, however, is that much of the grades are based on group participation.

I've had several groups so far where my classmates could barely speak English, and had no desire to work whatsoever. I carried the group and did most of the work, because if I didn't, my grade would suffer. They didn't "cheat" - they just didn't do the work. In my Entrepeneurship class (for example), it was necessary to have a group in order to get credit - the fact that my other group members didn't even show up wasn't a factor. If I didn't submit it as a "group effort", I would fail the assignment, and with the percentage of the grade that it represented, that meant I would fail the course.

These people aren't the best, or the brightest, and Canada will do itself a tremendous disservice prioritizing them over someone abroad who has worked hard to develop their skills and experience.

The current system (of requiring them to graduate and find a job) at least helps weed out some of the idiots.

Ok, so you are from Vancouver too, and I do know Douglas college as well. Honestly, the rampant of cheating in Douglas also due to the fact that the entry requirements are not as high as sfu or ubc, and since Douglas is also seen as a community-ish / transition place to sfu/ubc college, the quality of students are, most of the time, pretty low. On the other hand, at my school (BCIT), at least in my program (computer system), you will be reported immediately when you cheat, from the Academic English essay you write to the code assignment you work on. In the later year of my program, if you do not participate in a group assignment or project, we can just report to the instructor and kick you right out of our group. Freeloaders don't stand a chance to pass a course. It's not a coincidence that dipomas/degrees from BCIT are highly recognized by businesses in Vancouver, and the graduate employment rate are high. It's because all the cheaters and lazy students are kicked out and quite by themselves after the first year.

Again, I don't understand why we are keep talking about these stupid and lazy international students? since they, obviously, cannot find a job at all with their skill sets and english. Therefore, they are not eligible for the EE system. Can we just focus on the true and hard-working international students ?

 

[Hansdza]

Douglas college requires you to meet one of the following requirements:

There is an English requirement:

This is the kind of college that many of these students come to.

Cheating is rampant, and instructors are limited in what they can do about it. I've personally watched numerous examples of cheating, and the penalties are light. The first two times you are caught, the penalty is typically to retake the test or redo the assignment:

https://www.douglascollege.ca/~/media/27C599ABC76048A0A713648565906273.ashx

They can withdraw you from the course or fail you out, but it generally doesn't happen. Much of the cheating is done by having someone else do the work for you, and teachers are limited in how much they are supposed to make the tests worth. It's quite possible to pass classes while still failing the tests if you do the homework, particularly with group work. A score of 60% is a C.

Using Douglas again, you can take "General Studies":

https://www.douglascollege.ca/programs-courses/catalogue/programs/DPGENS

You need one English class, can take up to 15 credits of remedial/upgrading classes (really, really easy ones), then fill the rest with filler. It gets you a PGWP, and is a public school that qualifies for Express Entry.

It's an affordable college, that is designed to be accessible. Douglas has (for example) a significant special needs community - they have the right to seek education, too. Not everyone is qualified to be a knowledge worker.

This is some of the disconnect between those of us who see international students as qualified versus those that see them as unqualified. Spend a few semesters at Douglas, and you will understand exactly why someone getting a Canadian degree doesn't make them qualified.

Oh my God, so It does exist,

Thank you so much for your information. Some quick questions for you please..

How did you know about this college? Did you go to this college too for your study? How many college like this in Canada? Can we generalize that all Colleges are as bad as this college?

If what you said is true, I will tell all my friends who are looking for some college to stay away from Douglas College.. that is really crazy man..

 

[RamsayBolton]

Oh my God, so It does exist,

Thank you so much for your information. Some quick questions for you please..

How did you know about this college? Did you go to this college too for your study? How many college like this in Canada? Can we generalize that all Colleges are as bad as this college?

If what you said is true, I will tell all my friends who are looking for some college to stay away from Douglas College.. that is really crazy man..

It's not a new issue. In fact, most community and transition colleges do not impose strict rules on the cheating issue from international students due to the financial factor. In Vancouver, not so many people really takes diploma or degrees from Douglas or even Langara in order to find a good job, most of them just use these colleges to transfer to better universities like SFU, UBC or UVic. However, at the end, these int'l students pay a load of money but they do not receive any usuably skills and knowledge at all, so they keep paying these colleges to secure a study permit so they can stay in Canada.

I can say that the int'l students at Douglas/VCC are very very different from the int'l students at SFU and UBC.

 

[winnipeg141]

Don't compare people who graduated from Douglas by cheating and the ones who graduated from Universities like Waterloo, Toronto with their hard work. Not every University is like your Douglas college. Not every International student is cheater . We're talking about the people who graduated with their hard work and doing professional jobs.

It's the fault of the system that it treats both colleges the same. At my school, I had to fight to keep TurnItIn from being mandatory. It's a system where everything you write is put into a database ran by a US company, and they sell access to your papers to schools. Why does the school do it? Cheating. Almost all of the cheating is from international students from a few countries.

Unfortunately, a degree from a country (or school) with high amounts of cheating is treated exactly the same as a degree from a school that doesn't have that problem. Even when they don't cheat, there are still problems. The college I attended (Douglas) has a policy emphasizing group work, as they feel that better reflects the work environment in Canada. What that means, however, is that much of the grades are based on group participation.

I've had several groups so far where my classmates could barely speak English, and had no desire to work whatsoever. I carried the group and did most of the work, because if I didn't, my grade would suffer. They didn't "cheat" - they just didn't do the work. In my Entrepeneurship class (for example), it was necessary to have a group in order to get credit - the fact that my other group members didn't even show up wasn't a factor. If I didn't submit it as a "group effort", I would fail the assignment, and with the percentage of the grade that it represented, that meant I would fail the course.

These people aren't the best, or the brightest, and Canada will do itself a tremendous disservice prioritizing them over someone abroad who has worked hard to develop their skills and experience.

The current system (of requiring them to graduate and find a job) at least helps weed out some of the idiots.

 

[Honeyaustin]

Douglas college requires you to meet one of the following requirements:

There is an English requirement:

This is the kind of college that many of these students come to.

Cheating is rampant, and instructors are limited in what they can do about it. I've personally watched numerous examples of cheating, and the penalties are light. The first two times you are caught, the penalty is typically to retake the test or redo the assignment:

https://www.douglascollege.ca/~/media/27C599ABC76048A0A713648565906273.ashx

They can withdraw you from the course or fail you out, but it generally doesn't happen. Much of the cheating is done by having someone else do the work for you, and teachers are limited in how much they are supposed to make the tests worth. It's quite possible to pass classes while still failing the tests if you do the homework, particularly with group work. A score of 60% is a C.

Using Douglas again, you can take "General Studies":

https://www.douglascollege.ca/programs-courses/catalogue/programs/DPGENS

You need one English class, can take up to 15 credits of remedial/upgrading classes (really, really easy ones), then fill the rest with filler. It gets you a PGWP, and is a public school that qualifies for Express Entry.

It's an affordable college, that is designed to be accessible. Douglas has (for example) a significant special needs community - they have the right to seek education, too. Not everyone is qualified to be a knowledge worker.

This is some of the disconnect between those of us who see international students as qualified versus those that see them as unqualified. Spend a few semesters at Douglas, and you will understand exactly why someone getting a Canadian degree doesn't make them qualified.

being a canadian or future canadian its your responsibility to inform the ministry and education department of canada. if you are not doing your part than there is no point sharing this information here. and you should also appeal education minister shut down those kind of colleges starting with Douglas.

 

[rajibsam]

Don't compare people who graduated from Douglas by cheating and the ones who graduated from Universities like Waterloo, Toronto with their hard work...

True. Not every foreign work experience is fake.

Again, I don't understand why we are keep talking about these stupid and lazy international students? since they, obviously, cannot find a job at all with their skill sets and english. Therefore, they are not eligible for the EE system. Can we just focus on the true and hard-working international students ?

I don't understand why we are keep talking about these stupid and lazy foreign workers who have fake work experience. Can we just focus on the true and hard-working skilled workers ?

 

[RamsayBolton]

True. Not every foreign work experience is fake.

I don't understand why we are keep talking about these stupid and lazy foreign workers who have fake work experience. Can we just focus on the true and hard-working skilled workers ?

We are, but for now we cannot identify which one are true and hard working sw and fake ones since it's almost impossible to verify the foreign job experience. On the other hand, it's easy to detect fake documents, or canadian work experience with international students.

 

[winnipeg141]

We don't have any problem with skilled workers from overseas or foreign work experience. We just need Govt to improve system and they're with us because they know our importance. We will make it happen.

True. Not every foreign work experience is fake.