Interesting experience at a PIK at the airport

[Ponga]

I returned to Canada after a short vacation...without my PR Card. When I approached the PIK I [obviously] had no choice but to scan my Non-Canadian passport. I was asked to enter my reason for `visiting' Canada (tourist, work, study, etc.) and to enter the number of days I plan to remain in Canada. Since there was no way to enter anything other than a number (i.e. "I live here"), I simply skipped that question, which ultimately lead to the (expected) printout out with the `X'. Once I approached the CBSA officer and explained, I was on my way and not sent to Secondary.

Two points come to mind:

1.
I have seen discussions where people say that a PR's passport is also linked to the PR status in the `system', but that system seems to exclude whatever the PIK machine is able to find.

2.
It also seems to corroborate that a Primary Inspection officer can in fact see how many days a PR has been inside/outside of Canada regarding the R.O. to maintain PR status.

 

[Besram]

Interesting observations, but how did you get on a plane without a PR card?

 

[Ponga]

Interesting observations, but how did you get on a plane without a PR card?

I was never asked to produce a PR Card because of my U.S. passport.

 

[armoured]

I was asked to enter my reason for `visiting' Canada (tourist, work, study, etc.) and to enter the number of days I plan to remain in Canada. Since there was no way to enter anything other than a number (i.e. "I live here"), I simply skipped that question, which ultimately lead to the (expected) printout out with the `X'. Once I approached the CBSA officer and explained, I was on my way and not sent to Secondary.

Two points come to mind:

1.
I have seen discussions where people say that a PR's passport is also linked to the PR status in the `system', but that system seems to exclude whatever the PIK machine is able to find.

I don't think your conclusion here in 1. is correct. I think a more (most) plausible explanation is that the simplified algorithm in the PIK is simply designed for only one scenario, where the PR-holder is entering with a PR card and states that they are living there.

I.e. the algorithm is (possibly): Applicant A did not answer question on reason to enter ? They get an X.

Could they change the algorithm? Sure. Maybe they could use AI and tell you what colour your underwear is based on big underwear data.

But why bother? You don't have your PR card, they need to inspect you anyway, and this way they incentivize you to travel with your PR card, as intended.

The real test would be if you replied that you're here to visit and if they 'catch' that you're a PR who hasn't answered properly. (Although even that's debatable, i.e. you could be a PR who is coming to visit this time. )

Also possible they don't really care. My point is they probably COULD figure it out, and they might actually do that, but just because they didn't match AND tell you about it doesn't mean they didn't match you. Possible they don't at the PIK level and this is an oversight - for now.

It also seems to corroborate that a Primary Inspection officer can in fact see how many days a PR has been inside/outside of Canada regarding the R.O. to maintain PR status.

Probably they can. Not clear they did look it up in your case, but I would assume they can. Or at least they can get some version of the entries/exits and draw conclusions about how likely it is, or ask some innocuous quesitons and see if this seems to fit the information they have on their screen (i.e. do you basically seem to be telling the truth).

I think this latter version is quite common, like 'when did you leave / when was your last trip / how long have you been gone' etc. They just check to see if your answer makes sense against their records - at least much of the time - and whether you seem to be stressed about answering simple questions. (Sometimes I'm convinced they don't even cross-check and mostly just rely on whether you seem relaxed about answering - works for most people except clinical sociopaths/compulsive liars)

 

[Buletruck]

Just to add some back up to point 2, when I was visiting Canada as a non resident Canadian a few years ago, it also asked how long I was staying in Canada as a "visitor" after scanning my Canadian passport. Seems to indicate there is a significant amount of information available to CBSA.

 

[armoured]

Just to add some back up to point 2, when I was visiting Canada as a non resident Canadian a few years ago, it also asked how long I was staying in Canada as a "visitor" after scanning my Canadian passport. Seems to indicate there is a significant amount of information available to CBSA.

Perhaps a dumb question, but doesn't the customs/arrival form you fill out indicate where you live? I.e. they may not have needed to have fancy databases - they scanned your form and went with what you told them.

(Now I may be tripped up, can't recall whether they use these forms on trips from USA, it's been awhile)

Anyway honest question - but I've no doubt 'the system' has the info, part of the question here is what the PIK system knows, or whether it is using a more simple algorithm (at least some of the time).

 

[Buletruck]

Perhaps a dumb question, but doesn't the customs/arrival form you fill out indicate where you live? I.e. they may not have needed to have fancy databases - they scanned your form and went with what you told them. Something "I" doubt they have the ability to do.

(Now I may be tripped up, can't recall whether they use these forms on trips from USA, it's been awhile)

Anyway honest question - but I've no doubt 'the system' has the info, part of the question here is what the PIK system knows, or whether it is using a more simple algorithm (at least some of the time).

I believe it does ask for where you reside, but (and I may be completely wrong) that would require the machine to be able to convert handwriting into data. That's something "I" doubt they are able to do.

 

[armoured]

I believe it does ask for where you reside, but (and I may be completely wrong) that would require the machine to be able to convert handwriting into data. That's something "I" doubt they are able to do.

Actually there are separate sections you fill in if you're resident or visiting - so all the scanner would need to do is determine which section is filled in, part b for visitors or c for residents.

Not that having a scanner 'read' whether address part (country) is filled in with something like Canada is challenging. OCR is a thing, simple algorithm to narrow it down from list of countries. Quite possibly less difficult a task than reliable database search.

But not necessary if it can distinguish whether section b or c is completed.

 

[Ponga]

I don't think your conclusion here in 1. is correct. I think a more (most) plausible explanation is that the simplified algorithm in the PIK is simply designed for only one scenario, where the PR-holder is entering with a PR card and states that they are living there.

I.e. the algorithm is (possibly): Applicant A did not answer question on reason to enter ? They get an X.

Perhaps. In any event it was no surprise to see it.

 

[Vancouverthebest]

Just to add some back up to point 2, when I was visiting Canada as a non resident Canadian a few years ago, it also asked how long I was staying in Canada as a "visitor" after scanning my Canadian passport. Seems to indicate there is a significant amount of information available to CBSA.

Have you ever convicted to serious crime in or outside Canada?

 

[foodie69]

Have you ever convicted to serious crime in or outside Canada?

You have..