Inland vs outland for US born child

[mom_of_two]

Hello!

If anyone could provide clarification on this topic, it would be highly appreciated:

Three members of our family (mother, father and older son) are Canadian citizens (naturalized). Younger son was born in the US (we were here for husband's Ph.D). Now Ph.D is done and we are moving back to Canada. We figured out we have to sponsor him for PR status, as he was born when were PRs and not citizens yet. I have read that it takes less time to sponsor from outland. But I am supposed to send the complete application package to CIC Mississauga. Is that considered outland? Or do they assess the application and then send it to Buffalo? I am mostly interested in the Initial Assessment, because with that I can register him for OHIP and school. And would we apply with our US address first, and then, when we move to Canada, call CIC and change the address to our Canadian address? Could that change the status of our application to inland?

Thank you all!
mom_of_two

 

[mom_of_two]

Clarification: Inland vs outland for US born child

Clarification: we were told by the Detroit consulate to mail our PR sponsorship application to "our Case Processing Centre in Mississauga, Ontario", not CIC Mississauga as I wrote above...

 

[OhCanadiana]

Hello!

Hello and welcome!

If anyone could provide clarification on this topic, it would be highly appreciated:

Three members of our family (mother, father and older son) are Canadian citizens (naturalized). Younger son was born in the US (we were here for husband's Ph.D). Now Ph.D is done and we are moving back to Canada. We figured out we have to sponsor him for PR status, as he was born when were PRs and not citizens yet. I have read that it takes less time to sponsor from outland. But I am supposed to send the complete application package to CIC Mississauga. Is that considered outland?

Clarification: we were told by the Detroit consulate to mail our PR sponsorship application to "our Case Processing Centre in Mississauga, Ontario", not CIC Mississauga as I wrote above...

Yes. Inland applications are submitted to CPC-V (Vegreville, AB)

Or do they assess the application and then send it to Buffalo?

Outland sponsorship applications are submitted to CPC-M for step 1: assessment of the sponsor's eligibility. Then, they get sent to the visa office that covers the territory of the principal applicant's nationality (or residency) for step 2.
Up until last week Friday, step 2 used to be managed by Buffalo for US outland applications. Buffalo was closed on Friday and CPC-O (in Ontario) will assess outland US applicants for step 2 going forward.
You still need to submit your application to CPC-M.

I am mostly interested in the Initial Assessment, because with that I can register him for OHIP and school.

What is your source on OHIP? You may be able to help some folks on the forum who were trying to get health insurance while applying outland who have had mixed success - it would help them greatly as they argue with supervisors, etc.

On schooling, depending on your son's age you may be all set:
"It is important to know that all children aged 6-18 can attend school, regardless of their immigration status or the immigration status of their parents. This is outlined in the Education Act, the law that governs public schools in Ontario. "
Source: http://www.settlement.org/sys/faqs_detail.asp?faq_id=4001194

And would we apply with our US address first, and then, when we move to Canada, call CIC and change the address to our Canadian address? Could that change the status of our application to inland?

Thank you all!
mom_of_two

Changing your address to your Canadian address does not change the status of your application to inland.

Whether you apply inland or outland refers to the procedure, not to where the processing bodies are located (nor to your address).

 

[mom_of_two]

Thank you! That makes it much clearer!

About the initial assessment and OHIP, I am going by OHIP requirements outlined in the brochure here: (it won't let me post the link, just search for Ontario Health Insurance Coverage Document List) that states they will accept as proof of residency "written confirmation from CIC Canada that you are eligible to apply for permanent residence in Canada". I also found this on the same forum:


Important OHIP eligibility info for all PR applicants residing in Ontario
« on: November 01, 2010, 03:50:06 am »
Quote
Starting April 1st, 2009, Ontario considered a PR applicant residing in Ontario eligible for OHIP according to the following:


"Being a person who has submitted an application for permanent residence in Canada to the proper federal government authority, even if the application has not yet been approved, as long as Citizenship and Immigration Canada has confirmed that the person meets the eligibility requirements to apply for permanent residency in Canada, and the application has not yet been denied"

Source: Health Insurance Act R.R.O. 1990, REGULATION 552, Subsection 1.4 paragraph 5


I have two points to clarify:

I know that the common understanding for the above statement is that it is only true for inland applicants. However, this understanding is totally WRONG. The term "application for permanent residence in Canada" does not mean that it should be submitted within Canada, but it means that the applicant had submitted an application to reside permanently in Canada. If you check the PR application form, then you will see that it mentions "Application for Permanent Residence in Canada"
The PR applicant residing in Ontario is eligible from the time when the IO at visa office determines that eligiblity to apply for PR is being met in principle (commonly known as Initial Assesment). In CAIPS notes concering FSW cases, this eligibility is determined by PSDEC 1. Ontarian PR applicants under FSW who got their positive initial assesments, or who has CAIPS notes indicating PSDEC: 1, should be able to apply for OHIP and get the coverage after 3 months from the date of positive initial assesment/PSDEC.

end of link

I am not clear when in the process does CIC send out the Initial Assessment. Hopefully as early as possible, since otherwise I can only take my child to the doctor's in case of emergency (provided I buy visitor's insurance).

 

[OhCanadiana]

Thank you! That makes it much clearer!

You're welcome.

The PR applicant residing in Ontario is eligible from the time when the IO at visa office determines that eligiblity to apply for PR is being met in principle (commonly known as Initial Assesment). In CAIPS notes concering FSW cases, this eligibility is determined by PSDEC 1. Ontarian PR applicants under FSW who got their positive initial assesments, or who has CAIPS notes indicating PSDEC: 1, should be able to apply for OHIP and get the coverage after 3 months from the date of positive initial assesment/PSDEC.

end of link

I am not clear when in the process does CIC send out the Initial Assessment. Hopefully as early as possible, since otherwise I can only take my child to the doctor's in case of emergency (provided I buy visitor's insurance).

This is tricky because for skilled workers, the initial assessment is done at CPC-S (Syndey) in the first step as they are checking working experience and several other items to assess whether the FSW applicant has 67 points and/or proof arranged employment. In family class applications, step 1 only focuses on the sponsor's eligibility (not the applicants) so you wouldn't have PSDEC:1 until the visa office has done the applicant's assessment. For a family class application for a minor that should be shortly before PR approval (since the process at CPC-O should be fast). Furthermore, CIC usually doesn't send out an Initial Assessment confirmation. You could request CAIPS/GCMS notes to show PSDEC:1 but given that those take a month or so to be processed, it's unclear that it would buy you time

You may want to reach out to muffy1 whose wife was trying to apply for OHIP based on step 1 (sponsor assessment) - check out http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/ohip-with-copr-as-proof-of-residency-when-does-it-start-t96799.0.html for more details. IIRC, they were successful arguing based on some of the language but others reported not being so lucky. That's why I was hoping you had found a source that could help everyone out!

BTW, your whole family will have a 3 month waiting period once you return to Ontario, so you'll either want to keep your US insurance or get temporary insurance to cover you for the first 3 months after you return to Ontario.

A couple more things to keep in mind:
- your son would be entering Canada as a tourist if you move before he is a PR. This can get tricky as he obviously won't have the intent to move back to the US if the rest of you are moving back to Canada. As a US citizen, he is visa exempt so you won't face denial of a tourist visa, however you may need to do a bit of convincing at the border depending on the agent and whether you are all flying back together with a bunch of belongings in tow
- if you have lived in the US over a year (likely since you mentioned PhD), you can take your personal belongings back to Canada duty and tax free (subject to a 10k per item limit and some other requirements) - take a look at the links on B4 at http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/thread-for-outland-buffalo-applicants/-t106068.0.html;msg1489429#msg1489429 on how to do this.

 

[mom_of_two]

Hi! That's all very good information.

Regarding OHIP, they actually waive the 3-month requirement if you are abroad for studies. We were eligible for OHIP for the whole duration of the Ph.D., and we actually managed to get it extended by mail once, from 2006 until 2008, but when we applied by mail again for another extension, we haven't heard back from them, so it expired in 2008 but theoretically we should be reinstated immediately after we arrive:
health.gov.on.ca/en/public/publications/ohip/travel.aspx
"Absences Outside Canada

You may be eligible for continuous OHIP coverage during a longer absence when you are away for one of the following reasons :

Study outside of Canada
Work outside of Canada
Charitable work outside of Canada
To be eligible for continuous OHIP coverage during one of these absences, you must first have been physically present in Ontario for at least 153 days in each of the 12-month periods for 2 consecutive years immediately before the absence. Different physical presence requirements may apply if you are an Ontario student studying full-time outside of Ontario but within Canada, and you choose to continue your studies at an educational institution outside of Canada.

To confirm continuous OHIP coverage during any longer absence from Ontario, you should contact your local ServiceOntario centre before you leave the province. You will need to show a document explaining the reason for your absence as required; for example, a letter from your school, employer or sponsoring charitable organization."

Regarding my son entering Canada as a visitor, what can I do? Obviously he does not intend to return to the US, he is only 4, and we are all moving back to Canada. Will they really require proof that he will return to the US? By himself? We don't have any other family there.

 

[mom_of_two]

I just wanted to let everyone know (in case people are in similar situations) that Service Canada gave our US-born son OHIP coverage immediately, valid for one year. All we needed was his US birth certificate (and, of course, the rest of the paperwork showing that we - his mother and father - qualified for OHIP). This was in Toronto, Ontario.