Inland sponsorship for pregnant wife & implications for RAMQ (Quebec) healthcare

[canuck78]

No

The irony is that I of course also receive private healthcare coverage through my employer in Quebec; it just doesn't do squat if you don't also have an RAMQ card.



No one is moving to the US to be unemployed and on the streets. In fact, that's not possible, unless you're already a US citizen. If you're employed, you get healthcare - that's one of the provisions of the Affordable Care Act. If you're not, you do have to purchase health insurance on your own - but either way, they cannot discriminate based on pre-existing conditions such as pregnancy. Either way, you could get covered.



Summer would have been too late. I start work in March. I can't afford to pay rent and living expenses in two different countries for 4+ months.


Non-french speaking americans will probably take a little while to get a job in Quebec, even in Montreal. That was never really in the cards, unfortunately.

Well, there we are. That was the plan, and if things had gone according to plan, I wouldn't have needed to post here. As they say, no good plan survives first contact with the enemy.

Now that we are pregnant, there seems to be no options but to avoid returning.



I could choose a province at random and go be unemployed there. Maybe I can qualify for welfare? Not unemployment if I leave my job willingly.

In my field there is typically 2-3 positions posted each year. There are more openings, of course, but they tend to be filled internally. I applied for one in Manitoba two years ago, and one in Ontario last year. I didn't land either. This year I landed one in Montreal. That's probably my best and only chance in the forseeable future. I don't get to decide which province I end up in, unfortunately. Realistically, my only prospects at this point are New Brunswick or Nova Scotia. Nova Scotia hasn't posted their positions externally since 2015, and no one's retiring in New Brunswick in the next 5 years.

I guess I could go back to school, eat hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of opportunity cost, and hope I can land a job in my new field. But that's unreasonable when I already have a perfectly good career going.



Yes, the fact that not all provinces are the same is what is particularly frustrating. Also the contradictory and confusing information out there. The fact that the open work permit, on its own, does not give access to RAMQ took us by surprise. And I'd done my homework, to the fullest extent of my capabilities! The immigration websites are vague to the point of uselessness, the process is obscure, and the rules don't make sense. Even the fact that outland applications are faster coming from the US - that's nowhere on the CIC website that I could find, or in the forums.



I can and do blame policy. Here you have a highly educated Canadian citizen, willing to eat the significant loss of income to reverse the brain drain and come contribute to my native country, getting a job in one of the best medical centers of the country. My wife also holds a PhD. We have a job lined up for me, we'll be contributing to the Canadian economy, and we'll be even bringing a new baby into Canada and offsetting future immigration needs that way. We'll have no problems integrating culturally. Rationally, the country should see us as a best-case scenario and craft policy to make it easy for us to come home.

But policy means there's no way for us to get coverage now. There are no exceptions or fast-tracks for pregnant women (it would be rational for there to be), there is no grace during the time the application is being evaluated (as there used to be, according to the information we were able to find). No, there's just no way to get to B from A. Hell, you can fast-track a passport application, or a proof of citizenship application.

To add insult to injury, if I was a foreign Master's Student, or a postdoc coming in to work 2 years and bugger off, or anyone on a work visa, I could bring my wife as a dependent, and she would be covered either immediately or within 3 months, depending on the province, no muss no fuss. Ironically and cruelly, me being a citizen makes it much harder for my wife to get healthcare than if I were a foreigner.

Don't pretend it makes any sense, that it's fair, or that it's righteous. I'm not an expert on each countries' immigration process, but I doubt a majority of them make it as difficult as Quebec/Ontario does.

No guaranteed visa for a spouse of a masters student. Sounds like you are an MD. Nuclear medicine? Perhaps the hospital is willing to offset the cost of delivery in your salary package?

 

[mahtax]

No guaranteed visa for a spouse of a masters student.

You're starting to split hairs mighty thin. Yes, technically the visa component is separate from the study permit. People shorthand it as "student visa" because of course the study permit allows you and your dependents to be here for longer periods of time than the 6 months of the tourist visa, which is what most people receive if they're not applying for a study permit or a work permit. You apply for your dependents at the same time as you apply for yourself on the study permit, and they are allowed to come with you if you are.

Of course, the visa itself, which depends on the country (none needed for americans of course) could be denied independently of the study permit. I don't see why this is at all relevant to the discussion at hand. It's true for any kind of travel, regardless of the particular status under which you enter the country.

Not only can the dependents of students come - their spouse can get an open work permit in the meantime. They're literally treated better than the spouses of actual citizens.

No guaranteed visa for a spouse of a masters student. Sounds like you are an MD. Nuclear medicine? Perhaps the hospital is willing to offset the cost of delivery in your salary package?

I wish I was an MD. No, I'm under the category of "Allied Healthcare Professional". I have as much education but a quarter of the salary, and those salaries follow rigid tables that brook no negotiating other than wiggling yourself on the next echelon if you can talk a good game. Since healthcare is a government entity, there is no negotiating for these things across canada - policy is set at the provincial level for employees, and what's written is what you get. You get paid the same in Toronto as you do in Sault Ste-Marie. It's at its worst in Quebec.

I did call and ask, and my new employer is going to ask around, but unless they have access to insurance products that are not available to the general public, or they're willing to finangle something internally on the hush-hush where various doctors from unrelated departments in that hospital agree to work for free (a tall order), I don't see it happening, unfortunately.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

The irony is that I of course also receive private healthcare coverage through my employer in Quebec; it just doesn't do squat if you don't also have an RAMQ card.



No one is moving to the US to be unemployed and on the streets. In fact, that's not possible, unless you're already a US citizen. If you're employed, you get healthcare - that's one of the provisions of the Affordable Care Act. If you're not, you do have to purchase health insurance on your own - but either way, they cannot discriminate based on pre-existing conditions such as pregnancy. Either way, you could get covered.



Summer would have been too late. I start work in March. I can't afford to pay rent and living expenses in two different countries for 4+ months.


Non-french speaking americans will probably take a little while to get a job in Quebec, even in Montreal. That was never really in the cards, unfortunately.

Well, there we are. That was the plan, and if things had gone according to plan, I wouldn't have needed to post here. As they say, no good plan survives first contact with the enemy.

Now that we are pregnant, there seems to be no options but to avoid returning.



I could choose a province at random and go be unemployed there. Maybe I can qualify for welfare? Not unemployment if I leave my job willingly.

In my field there is typically 2-3 positions posted each year. There are more openings, of course, but they tend to be filled internally. I applied for one in Manitoba two years ago, and one in Ontario last year. I didn't land either. This year I landed one in Montreal. That's probably my best and only chance in the forseeable future. I don't get to decide which province I end up in, unfortunately. Realistically, my only prospects at this point are New Brunswick or Nova Scotia. Nova Scotia hasn't posted their positions externally since 2015, and no one's retiring in New Brunswick in the next 5 years.

I guess I could go back to school, eat hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of opportunity cost, and hope I can land a job in my new field. But that's unreasonable when I already have a perfectly good career going.



Yes, the fact that not all provinces are the same is what is particularly frustrating. Also the contradictory and confusing information out there. The fact that the open work permit, on its own, does not give access to RAMQ took us by surprise. And I'd done my homework, to the fullest extent of my capabilities! The immigration websites are vague to the point of uselessness, the process is obscure, and the rules don't make sense. Even the fact that outland applications are faster coming from the US - that's nowhere on the CIC website that I could find, or in the forums.



I can and do blame policy. Here you have a highly educated Canadian citizen, willing to eat the significant loss of income to reverse the brain drain and come contribute to my native country, getting a job in one of the best medical centers of the country. My wife also holds a PhD. We have a job lined up for me, we'll be contributing to the Canadian economy, and we'll be even bringing a new baby into Canada and offsetting future immigration needs that way. We'll have no problems integrating culturally. Rationally, the country should see us as a best-case scenario and craft policy to make it easy for us to come home.

But policy means there's no way for us to get coverage now. There are no exceptions or fast-tracks for pregnant women (it would be rational for there to be), there is no grace during the time the application is being evaluated (as there used to be, according to the information we were able to find). No, there's just no way to get to B from A. Hell, you can fast-track a passport application, or a proof of citizenship application.

To add insult to injury, if I was a foreign Master's Student, or a postdoc coming in to work 2 years and bugger off, or anyone on a work visa, I could bring my wife as a dependent, and she would be covered either immediately or within 3 months, depending on the province, no muss no fuss. Ironically and cruelly, me being a citizen makes it much harder for my wife to get healthcare than if I were a foreigner.

Don't pretend it makes any sense, that it's fair, or that it's righteous. I'm not an expert on each countries' immigration process, but I doubt a majority of them make it as difficult as Quebec/Ontario does.

You are in this position because your wife got pregnant. That is really all that this comes down to. Your use (or lack of) birth control was a personal choice entirely in your (and your wife's) control and no one else. You can argue brain drain and blame Canada and Quebec and IRCC and about wax poetic about ACA and the US medical system but as you said, there it is.

Applications shouldn't be fast-tracked for pregnant women. What about same-sex male couples who can't biologically get pregnant? Or couples that can't physically have kids and choose to adopt? Or couples that choose not to have kids? Being pregnant doesn't mean that your app gets to be processed faster than all of them.

 

[mahtax]

You are in this position because your wife got pregnant. That is really all that this comes down to. Your use (or lack of) birth control was a personal choice entirely in your (and your wife's) control and no one else. You can argue brain drain and blame Canada and Quebec and IRCC and about wax poetic about ACA and the US medical system but as you said, there it is.

Everyone is in the position they are in because of the decisions they make, that doesn't make bad policy good.

Applications shouldn't be fast-tracked for pregnant women. What about same-sex male couples who can't biologically get pregnant? Or couples that can't physically have kids and choose to adopt? Or couples that choose not to have kids? Being pregnant doesn't mean that your app gets to be processed faster than all of them.

At the very least they should extend healthcare coverage in the period in which the application is processed. After all, a non-citizen on a work permit who brings his dependents along would be able to sign up their dependents on healthcare after landing.

Even the RAMQ agrees to make exceptions for pregnant women. They will cover pregnancy-related costs in the 3-month "carence" delay period where you have registered for RAMQ but it hasn't yet taken effect. They see that exceptions need to be made for pregnant women. A shame it only applies to after you register to the RAMQ, and you can't register for it until you get your AIP, even with an open work permit.

Somehow this is fair and right in Quebec and Ontario, but not in the other 8 provinces.This is of course internally consistent, sensible, and good policy. No one could possibly disagree with it. People should just be taking ownership of their own individual decisions, policy is policy and it is never bad. Except in the other 8 provinces, where the opposite happens. Still, we don't complain or ask questions.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Everyone is in the position they are in because of the decisions they make, that doesn't make bad policy good.



At the very least they should extend healthcare coverage in the period in which the application is processed. After all, a non-citizen on a work permit who brings his dependents along would be able to sign up their dependents on healthcare after landing.

Even the RAMQ agrees to make exceptions for pregnant women. They will cover pregnancy-related costs in the 3-month "carence" delay period where you have registered for RAMQ but it hasn't yet taken effect. They see that exceptions need to be made for pregnant women. A shame it only applies to after you register to the RAMQ, and you can't register for it until you get your AIP, even with an open work permit.

Somehow this is fair and right in Quebec and Ontario, but not in the other 8 provinces.This is of course internally consistent, sensible, and good policy. No one could possibly disagree with it. People should just be taking ownership of their own individual decisions, policy is policy and it is never bad. Except in the other 8 provinces, where the opposite happens. Still, we don't complain or ask questions.

Healthcare is provincial. The federal government can't force the provinces and territories to cover visiting spouses of Canadians.

I'm not sure what you mean about the other provinces. If you are trying to be sarcastic, it doesn't come off very well in text. People do need to take ownership of their own personal choices. I sponsored my partner and we came to Canada mid-process knowing that health coverage was several months away (for both of us, as I, a returning Canadian, also faced the wait period) and planned for it.

No one has said the policies are perfect and many people DO complain and ask questions. You can certainly lobby the Quebec government or any of the provincial/territorial governments to change their policy.