information about 44-1 report

[ddtofe]

greetings! i've been following this forum for sometime and find it useful. i need help wrt my situation. i am a PR since 2021, but as of today i do not meet the RO. reading through this forum, I finally got a job in canada and i am planning to move there soon. i see that i might be reported for non-compliance of RO and my pr status revoked. i want to understand how this process works? -

- if the cbsa officer files a 44(1) report, do they notify? can they issue 44(1) without informing?
- if reported, how many days does it take for minister delegate (MD) to make a decision on the case?
- does the MD contact by phone call or email? or snail mail?
- does the MD call before making a decision or just for informing about their decision?
- how many days are there to appeal the MD's decision before having to leave Canada?
- how many days/weeks/months does it take typically (current timelines) for the appeal to reach the court?
- can we apply 1-year temporary pr only after MD decision? or after 44(1)

thanks all,

 

[steaky]

greetings! i've been following this forum for sometime and find it useful. i need help wrt my situation. i am a PR since 2021, but as of today i do not meet the RO. reading through this forum, I finally got a job in canada and i am planning to move there soon. i see that i might be reported for non-compliance of RO and my pr status revoked. i want to understand how this process works? -

- if the cbsa officer files a 44(1) report, do they notify? can they issue 44(1) without informing?
- if reported, how many days does it take for minister delegate (MD) to make a decision on the case?
- does the MD contact by phone call or email? or snail mail?
- does the MD call before making a decision or just for informing about their decision?
- how many days are there to appeal the MD's decision before having to leave Canada?
- how many days/weeks/months does it take typically (current timelines) for the appeal to reach the court?
- can we apply 1-year temporary pr only after MD decision? or after 44(1)

thanks all,

Why not worry about the above when you actually got reported?

 

[dpenabill]

greetings! i've been following this forum for sometime and find it useful. i need help wrt my situation. i am a PR since 2021, but as of today i do not meet the RO. reading through this forum, I finally got a job in canada and i am planning to move there soon. i see that i might be reported for non-compliance of RO and my pr status revoked. i want to understand how this process works? -

- if the cbsa officer files a 44(1) report, do they notify? can they issue 44(1) without informing?
- if reported, how many days does it take for minister delegate (MD) to make a decision on the case?
- does the MD contact by phone call or email? or snail mail?
- does the MD call before making a decision or just for informing about their decision?
- how many days are there to appeal the MD's decision before having to leave Canada?
- how many days/weeks/months does it take typically (current timelines) for the appeal to reach the court?
- can we apply 1-year temporary pr only after MD decision? or after 44(1)

thanks all,

- if reported, how many days does it take for minister delegate (MD) to make a decision on the case?​

The hearing/interview with the Minister's Delegate usually occurs immediately following the preparation of the inadmissibility report (44(1) Report), that is before the traveler's application to enter Canada is granted. So that generally happens while the PR-traveler is still in the Port-of-Entry (PoE).

If another CBSA officer qualified to act as a MD is not readily available during the PoE screening, either in person at that PoE, or via telephone, the traveler will be advised they will be contacted for an interview/hearing later, and when that happens typically varies from days to weeks, but there are some anecdotal reports about this not happening for months.

- does the MD contact by phone call or email? or snail mail?​

Standard practice is the traveler is referred to another CBSA officer (one qualified to act as MD) in the PoE. IF a PR-traveler is asked questions by a CBSA officer in Secondary and that officer determines the PR-traveler is in breach of the RO, that officer prepares the 44(1) Report and then another CBSA officer asks the PR-traveler questions, the second officer acting in the role of a MD. Anecdotal reports suggest that it is not clear to some "reported" travelers that a 44(1) Report has been prepared regarding them or that the additional officer asking questions is acting as a MD; they are just asked questions by one (or sometimes more than one) officer, and then asked questions by a different officer. The latter is the MD's review of the first officer's 44(1) Report.

If the MD's review of the 44(1) Report is not done then and there, while the traveler is still in the PoE, most accounts indicate the next contact was by telephone, but this is based on a rather small number of anecdotal reports. The traveler-PR has the burden/obligation to provide and keep up to date their contact information. Since days in Canada after preparation of Report do not count toward meeting the Residency Obligation, in addition to the negative effect of failing to keep contact information current (tends to make the PR appear to be evasive) there is no advantage gained if it takes longer to reach the PR-traveler to complete the Report review.

- does the MD call before making a decision or just for informing about their decision?​

MD usually makes a decision then and there in the PoE. MD can set aside the Report if the MD determines it is not valid in law (determination the PR-traveler is not in breach of the RO), or if the MD determines there are sufficient H&C considerations to allow the PR-traveler to keep PR status despite the RO breach. If the MD determines the Report is valid and that there are not sufficient H&C considerations to allow the PR-traveler to keep status, the MD issues and delivers to the PR-traveler a Removal/Departure Order. And then the PR-traveler will be allowed to proceed into Canada.

- how many days are there to appeal the MD's decision before having to leave Canada?​

If a Removal/Departure Order is issued it is not immediately enforceable. So the PR-traveler is allowed to enter Canada. The PR-traveler then has 30 days to make an appeal, and if an appeal is made the Removal Order is not enforceable for as long as the appeal is pending.

Note that the issuance of a Removal Order for inadmissibility is a decision that terminates a PR's status UNLESS there is a successful appeal.

- how many days/weeks/months does it take typically (current timelines) for the appeal to reach the court?​

Appeal of the Removal Order does not go to a "court" but rather is made to the IAD (Immigration Appeal Division with the Immigration and Refugee Board). Timelines vary considerably.

- can we apply 1-year temporary pr only after MD decision? or after 44(1)​

A PR who is IN Canada who does not have a valid PR card can make the application for a new PR card anytime. IRCC will decide whether to issue a card valid for five years or for one year. Another area of uncertainty, however, is how long it might take IRCC to process the PR card application when there are issues about RO compliance, and to then decide whether to issue a one year or five year card. If the PR has an appeal of a Removal Order pending, or even a 44(1) Report that has not yet been reviewed by a MD, should be obvious that IRCC is more likely to issue a one year card rather than a full five year card.

 

[ddtofe]

- how many days/weeks/months does it take typically (current timelines) for the appeal to reach the court?​

Appeal of the Removal Order does not go to a "court" but rather is made to the IAD (Immigration Appeal Division with the Immigration and Refugee Board). Timelines vary considerably.

​

Thank you for the detailed reply.

I assume there's a queue for the appeal to be heard in IAD, or is it heard immediately? If the appeal waits in a line to be heard, typically how long is the wait time till it is adjudicated? Is it few days/weeks/months?

Just trying to prepare mentally and financially and this info would be helpful.

 

[dpenabill]

I assume there's a queue for the appeal to be heard in IAD, or is it heard immediately? If the appeal waits in a line to be heard, typically how long is the wait time till it is adjudicated? Is it few days/weeks/months?

Just trying to prepare mentally and financially and this info would be helpful.

Timelines for hearings before the IAD vary widely, ranging from several months to many months or longer (during Covid many took well over a year, some even years).

Even though many PRs (mostly those on their way to becoming a Foreign National, so a former-PR) represent themselves in the appeal process, those seriously trying to keep PR status (as in those actually trying to not become a Foreign National, not become a former-PR), will obtain the assistance of a reliable, competent immigration lawyer to prosecute the appeal. I am not sure, but very much expect that getting a lawyer involved will entail a more thorough and expansive approach in prosecuting the appeal which likely results in a longer timeline (said without actually comparing the timelines, as indicated in published IAD decisions, of cases in which the PR was represented by a lawyer versus those in which the PR did not have a legal representative).

Leading to . . .

"Just trying to prepare mentally and financially and this info would be helpful."​

and . . .

Why not worry about the above when you actually got reported?

Even though the comment posted by @steaky (perhaps more like @snicker rather often) was cryptic, at least a bit snide, and a little off the mark, there is a valid underlying point there. In trying to be prepared for how things will go at the Port-of-Entry and beyond, both mentally and financially, it would likely be far more relevant and useful to focus on the prospect of avoiding a Removal Order, that is avoiding a determination your are inadmissible for a breach of the Residency Obligation.

In this forum the discussion tends to focus on "being Reported" or such, but there are other key fulcrums (or forking paths) in the PoE process and overall the most important one is not whether the in-RO-breach PR is "Reported" but whether the PR is determined to be inadmissible, and thus issued a Removal Order (which, as previously noted, is a decision that terminates PR status, even though it is not immediately effective or enforceable).

The key factors are (1) how much in breach of the RO the PR is, and (2) the strength of the PR's H&C case.

If, for example, you know that it is highly likely you will need to appeal, that alone is enough to figure out the odds of keeping PR status are not at all good, and to have much chance of saving PR status a lawyer will be needed. Needing a lawyer will be the biggest financial factor. Yes, a lawyer will be expensive, probably very expensive, in the range of many thousands of Canadian dollars, perhaps more.

Along the way, before getting to that stage, and to prepare for how things will go upon arrival here . . .

Note, this is assuming you can travel to Canada. Unless the PR can travel here via the U.S., a PR who does not have a valid PR card needs to obtain a PR Travel Document to make the trip here. Those PRs in RO breach will not be granted a PR TD unless they show sufficient H&C reasons for IRCC to allow them to keep PR status. If issued a PR TD, there is nearly zero risk of "being reported" upon arrival at the PoE.​

. . . again, along the way, before getting to the stage of PoE screening in which a MD is deciding whether to allow the PR to keep status or issue a Removal Order, to prepare for how things will go upon arrival here, other key decision-events are:

-- whether the traveler is waived through at the Primary Inspection Line (PIL) or referred for Secondary screening​

-- if referred to Secondary, whether the screening CBSA officer focuses on RO compliance issues, and if the officer does assess the PR's RO compliance, whether that officer decides to prepare an inadmissibility report (the 44(1) Report) based on the traveler's situation​

-- if an inadmissibility report is prepared, whether the PR presents H&C reasons sufficient to persuade the reviewing officer (the MD) they should be allowed to keep RO status​

So, again, the key factors are

(1) how much in breach of the RO the PR is, and​

(2) the strength of the PR's H&C case​

The extent of the breach can have a big influence in all three of the key decision-events:

-- whether there is a waive through at the PIL or referral to Secondary​

-- whether the officer in Secondary prepares a Report, and​

-- it is usually the biggest factor in the assessment of H&C considerations​

Meanwhile, even though there are some successful appeals, most of those are likely cases in which the PR had a strong H&C case but did not prepare before traveling here and thus failed to make a good H&C case during PoE screening. That is, for a PR who has a case strong enough to win on appeal, odds are they will not need to appeal if they prepare to make their case at the PoE upon arrival here. And, it is worth noting, the odds of success at the PoE are probably significantly better, if not way better for the same H&C case, than they are before the IAD.

A whole lot of words to say that preparing for how it will go for a PR in breach of the RO is best focused on being prepared for the PoE screening and if necessary presenting H&C reasons for remaining outside Canada during that process. The right of appeal is a last resort and generally not a promising one.

 

[ddtofe]

Timelines for hearings before the IAD vary widely, ranging from several months to many months or longer (during Covid many took well over a year, some even years).

Even though many PRs (mostly those on their way to becoming a Foreign National, so a former-PR) represent themselves in the appeal process, those seriously trying to keep PR status (as in those actually trying to not become a Foreign National, not become a former-PR), will obtain the assistance of a reliable, competent immigration lawyer to prosecute the appeal. I am not sure, but very much expect that getting a lawyer involved will entail a more thorough and expansive approach in prosecuting the appeal which likely results in a longer timeline (said without actually comparing the timelines, as indicated in published IAD decisions, of cases in which the PR was represented by a lawyer versus those in which the PR did not have a legal representative).

Leading to . . .

"Just trying to prepare mentally and financially and this info would be helpful."​

and . . .


Even though the comment posted by @steaky (perhaps more like @snicker rather often) was cryptic, at least a bit snide, and a little off the mark, there is a valid underlying point there. In trying to be prepared for how things will go at the Port-of-Entry and beyond, both mentally and financially, it would likely be far more relevant and useful to focus on the prospect of avoiding a Removal Order, that is avoiding a determination your are inadmissible for a breach of the Residency Obligation.

In this forum the discussion tends to focus on "being Reported" or such, but there are other key fulcrums (or forking paths) in the PoE process and overall the most important one is not whether the in-RO-breach PR is "Reported" but whether the PR is determined to be inadmissible, and thus issued a Removal Order (which, as previously noted, is a decision that terminates PR status, even though it is not immediately effective or enforceable).

The key factors are (1) how much in breach of the RO the PR is, and (2) the strength of the PR's H&C case.

If, for example, you know that it is highly likely you will need to appeal, that alone is enough to figure out the odds of keeping PR status are not at all good, and to have much chance of saving PR status a lawyer will be needed. Needing a lawyer will be the biggest financial factor. Yes, a lawyer will be expensive, probably very expensive, in the range of many thousands of Canadian dollars, perhaps more.

Along the way, before getting to that stage, and to prepare for how things will go upon arrival here . . .

Note, this is assuming you can travel to Canada. Unless the PR can travel here via the U.S., a PR who does not have a valid PR card needs to obtain a PR Travel Document to make the trip here. Those PRs in RO breach will not be granted a PR TD unless they show sufficient H&C reasons for IRCC to allow them to keep PR status. If issued a PR TD, there is nearly zero risk of "being reported" upon arrival at the PoE.​

. . . again, along the way, before getting to the stage of PoE screening in which a MD is deciding whether to allow the PR to keep status or issue a Removal Order, to prepare for how things will go upon arrival here, other key decision-events are:

-- whether the traveler is waived through at the Primary Inspection Line (PIL) or referred for Secondary screening​

-- if referred to Secondary, whether the screening CBSA officer focuses on RO compliance issues, and if the officer does assess the PR's RO compliance, whether that officer decides to prepare an inadmissibility report (the 44(1) Report) based on the traveler's situation​

-- if an inadmissibility report is prepared, whether the PR presents H&C reasons sufficient to persuade the reviewing officer (the MD) they should be allowed to keep RO status​

So, again, the key factors are

(1) how much in breach of the RO the PR is, and​

(2) the strength of the PR's H&C case​

The extent of the breach can have a big influence in all three of the key decision-events:

-- whether there is a waive through at the PIL or referral to Secondary​

-- whether the officer in Secondary prepares a Report, and​

-- it is usually the biggest factor in the assessment of H&C considerations​

Meanwhile, even though there are some successful appeals, most of those are likely cases in which the PR had a strong H&C case but did not prepare before traveling here and thus failed to make a good H&C case during PoE screening. That is, for a PR who has a case strong enough to win on appeal, odds are they will not need to appeal if they prepare to make their case at the PoE upon arrival here. And, it is worth noting, the odds of success at the PoE are probably significantly better, if not way better for the same H&C case, than they are before the IAD.

A whole lot of words to say that preparing for how it will go for a PR in breach of the RO is best focused on being prepared for the PoE screening and if necessary presenting H&C reasons for remaining outside Canada during that process. The right of appeal is a last resort and generally not a promising one.

Appreciate your help in this matter.

I consulted a few lawyers who are willing to help me prepare a package of documents to be presented at the land border if reported for secondary. They're charging thousands of dollars for this service. I'm not sure if I have strong enough H&C reasons as per those defined in the booklet, although i faced some medical issues, and financial difficulties and couldn't find a job in Canada in time due to bad economy and covid.. So I'm debating if i should take the help of these lawyers to prepare a POE packet and if it will be worth it.. and if it could significantly help me not being reported? Is there a template of what all documents or letters I should prepare beforehand that I could prepare myself without a lawyer? What do you suggest?

 

[Besram]

Appreciate your help in this matter.

I consulted a few lawyers who are willing to help me prepare a package of documents to be presented at the land border if reported for secondary. They're charging thousands of dollars for this service. I'm not sure if I have strong enough H&C reasons as per those defined in the booklet, although i faced some medical issues, and financial difficulties and couldn't find a job in Canada in time due to bad economy and covid.. So I'm debating if i should take the help of these lawyers to prepare a POE packet and if it will be worth it.. and if it could significantly help me not being reported? Is there a template of what all documents or letters I should prepare beforehand that I could prepare myself without a lawyer? What do you suggest?

Re: H&C package, there may be an advantage in that you have a well presented, professionally prepared document that organises all information in one place. Border officers must consider all information you give them in assessing your H&C reasons, in other words they must read this document if they want to make a decision on whether or not you have H&C reasons. If you are worried about presenting your reasons verbally, get easily flustered in the presence of officials, etc., a written document is a good idea.

Whether or not you need a lawyer to prepare this is a different question. Lawyers cannot represent you at the border, so they would literally only write this document for you. Also consider if you do get a negative decision at the border and you want to appeal, this would be something you most likely want to use a lawyer for. So consider if the fees you spend on the package might not be better put towards a potential appeal.

There is no template for this and no prescribed format. If you decide to do it yourself, I suggest a letter of explanation with any supporting documents attached. You can use AI writing assistants to help you write this.

 

[ddtofe]

Re: H&C package, there may be an advantage in that you have a well presented, professionally prepared document that organises all information in one place. Border officers must consider all information you give them in assessing your H&C reasons, in other words they must read this document if they want to make a decision on whether or not you have H&C reasons. If you are worried about presenting your reasons verbally, get easily flustered in the presence of officials, etc., a written document is a good idea.

Whether or not you need a lawyer to prepare this is a different question. Lawyers cannot represent you at the border, so they would literally only write this document for you. Also consider if you do get a negative decision at the border and you want to appeal, this would be something you most likely want to use a lawyer for. So consider if the fees you spend on the package might not be better put towards a potential appeal.

There is no template for this and no prescribed format. If you decide to do it yourself, I suggest a letter of explanation with any supporting documents attached. You can use AI writing assistants to help you write this.

Very helpful advice, thank you

 

[armoured]

Re: H&C package, there may be an advantage in that you have a well presented, professionally prepared document that organises all information in one place. Border officers must consider all information you give them in assessing your H&C reasons, in other words they must read this document if they want to make a decision on whether or not you have H&C reasons. If you are worried about presenting your reasons verbally, get easily flustered in the presence of officials, etc., a written document is a good idea.

I overall agree with these points. Perhaps a slight rephrasing from my point of view:
-the overall reason to get organized is to practice a wee bit and to be organized. I don't think the specific format of a letter, or a text, or the packet of documents is going to matter much at all.
-my impressions (and I have to say impression because not been through this particular thing although a lot of experience dealing with customs/passport officials overall, and from reports here) - the important thing is to be ready to state, BRIEFLY AND COHERENTLY, the main points of things that kept you abroad, the H&C stuff, and your 'reasons.' Being organized is the key to being able to state this stuff BRIEFLY AND COHERENTLY.
-Sorry for what may seem like SHOUTING (the caps). It's just for emphasis. But the hardest and (I think) most important part of this. Stating short versions - brief and coherent versions - while hitting the main points requires some preparation. Practicing a bit won't hurt.
-As for the documents / packet you have with you: my belief is that this stuff is 80% a confidence booster for you, and 20% (probably less) actual documentary support (at least at a border crossing). From most reports I've seen heard here: CBSA stuff are not going to read stuff in detail - they might ask about something, and gesturing to your docs and perhaps at most they take a quick peek at a few of them ('ah, this guy does have a letter from a cardiac surgeon and some charts'). Feeling confident you have some documentation of the things you say above is a big confidence booster; being organized enough to point to a couple of them - if asked - gives you credibility with the officer. so yes, getting organized and having the stuff at hand and knowing how to find related info is useful. (Doesn't mean you should have 1000 pages of stuff). The actual docs may never be used, but your confidence/credibility will be boosted by having them.
-Overall, don't volunteer excess information, just answer questions. If asked what reasons you had in an open-ended question: the brief, concise list of things that came up. The clearly 'not in my control' (eg medical) up top; the less strong reasons (my job made travel hard, other minor stuff) lower down and not over-emphasized.
-Have a good grasp of the dates and time periods - not necessarily to the day, but the overall arc. If you don't remember specific days/dates, admit it when asked but can confirm - and if you can have those in the packet of docs written down, it can help. (Again, mostly confidence). "Early september [year], I can find the precise date if you need it" is better than vague "I think it was late 2022 or 2023, not sure."
-And mostly answer questions briefly without long detail - digressions will get you and the officer confused.

All this based on one basic concept: the officers are busy, they have lots of priorities, they'd rather catch people doing nasty stuff than borderline cases of RO compliance, and they don't want to spend the time writing it up if another officer or the appeals process is going to reverse their decision.

The task is to present your case simply so they don't think it's worth pursuing and writing up, and briefly so they can make that decision reasonably quickly.

And if they do let you through: consider they probably wrote a note to file and you won't benefit from leniency the next time; get in compliance and stay there.

 

[ddtofe]

I overall agree with these points. Perhaps a slight rephrasing from my point of view:
-the overall reason to get organized is to practice a wee bit and to be organized. I don't think the specific format of a letter, or a text, or the packet of documents is going to matter much at all.
-my impressions (and I have to say impression because not been through this particular thing although a lot of experience dealing with customs/passport officials overall, and from reports here) - the important thing is to be ready to state, BRIEFLY AND COHERENTLY, the main points of things that kept you abroad, the H&C stuff, and your 'reasons.' Being organized is the key to being able to state this stuff BRIEFLY AND COHERENTLY.
-Sorry for what may seem like SHOUTING (the caps). It's just for emphasis. But the hardest and (I think) most important part of this. Stating short versions - brief and coherent versions - while hitting the main points requires some preparation. Practicing a bit won't hurt.
-As for the documents / packet you have with you: my belief is that this stuff is 80% a confidence booster for you, and 20% (probably less) actual documentary support (at least at a border crossing). From most reports I've seen heard here: CBSA stuff are not going to read stuff in detail - they might ask about something, and gesturing to your docs and perhaps at most they take a quick peek at a few of them ('ah, this guy does have a letter from a cardiac surgeon and some charts'). Feeling confident you have some documentation of the things you say above is a big confidence booster; being organized enough to point to a couple of them - if asked - gives you credibility with the officer. so yes, getting organized and having the stuff at hand and knowing how to find related info is useful. (Doesn't mean you should have 1000 pages of stuff). The actual docs may never be used, but your confidence/credibility will be boosted by having them.
-Overall, don't volunteer excess information, just answer questions. If asked what reasons you had in an open-ended question: the brief, concise list of things that came up. The clearly 'not in my control' (eg medical) up top; the less strong reasons (my job made travel hard, other minor stuff) lower down and not over-emphasized.
-Have a good grasp of the dates and time periods - not necessarily to the day, but the overall arc. If you don't remember specific days/dates, admit it when asked but can confirm - and if you can have those in the packet of docs written down, it can help. (Again, mostly confidence). "Early september [year], I can find the precise date if you need it" is better than vague "I think it was late 2022 or 2023, not sure."
-And mostly answer questions briefly without long detail - digressions will get you and the officer confused.

All this based on one basic concept: the officers are busy, they have lots of priorities, they'd rather catch people doing nasty stuff than borderline cases of RO compliance, and they don't want to spend the time writing it up if another officer or the appeals process is going to reverse their decision.

The task is to present your case simply so they don't think it's worth pursuing and writing up, and briefly so they can make that decision reasonably quickly.

And if they do let you through: consider they probably wrote a note to file and you won't benefit from leniency the next time; get in compliance and stay there.

Thank you for the pointers. I will see if I can get AI to help me prepare a document package and proxy interview.

 

[scylla]

Thank you for the pointers. I will see if I can get AI to help me prepare a document package and proxy interview.

Just make sure you check absolutely everything if using AI. AI can be helpful but also can still throw out garbage (e.g. referring to immigration rules that don't exist).

 

[armoured]

Thank you for the pointers. I will see if I can get AI to help me prepare a document package and proxy interview.

I think the most important parts of this are organization and thinking so that you are comfortable with the information in there and your knowledge of it.

I'm neutral on the point of whether you can use AI to prepare for this effectively; just caution that it can't be the crutch that does it all for you.