+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

Inadmissible

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
13,298
2,167
Canada
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
16-02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
31-07-2013
LANDED..........
09-11-2013
gehtrew said:
I was never charged previously for any traffic offense in the U.S.A.No D.U.I. No dangerous driving etc.
I've read through that whole section and all of the referenced sections. I believe that the visa officer is in error regarding the use of 259(4) and that you should certainly see a lawyer. It may well be that non-payment of the fine could complicate things however. Good luck.
 

gehtrew

Star Member
Nov 5, 2014
125
44
Category........
Visa Office......
Port of Spain
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
20/October/2014
Doc's Request.
04/Febuary/2015
AOR Received.
16/Febuary/2015
File Transfer...
01/March/2015./SA
Med's Request
None
Med's Done....
03/June/2014
Interview........
2/9/2015
Passport Req..
In-Process/07/August/2015
VISA ISSUED...
Waiting
LANDED..........
In God Timing
zardoz said:
I've read through that whole section and all of the referenced sections. I believe that the visa officer is in error regarding the use of 259(4) and that you should certainly see a lawyer. It may well be that non-payment of the fine could complicate things however. Good luck.
Thank you so much for your advise.I am going to seek council/lawyer about this matter.
 

nmclean

Star Member
Jul 11, 2015
116
6
Category........
Visa Office......
Ottawa
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
27-07-2015
Doc's Request.
28-01-2016
File Transfer...
28-09-2015
Med's Done....
05-03-2015
VISA ISSUED...
20-06-2016
LANDED..........
28-06-2016
SamHom said:
Of course this person should have paid the fine...but...isn't it ridiculous that you're inadmissible for doing something like this 16 years ago?
I think normally something from over 5 years ago can be forgiven through applying here:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/rehabil.asp

You can apply for rehabilitation if at least five years have passed since you finished your criminal sentence.
But as the letter says, they aren't eligible for this, because even though 16 years have passed since the offense, five years "since you finished your criminal sentence" hasn't passed because the fine was never paid, or in other words the "sentence" was never finished.
 

mpottier

Star Member
Jan 23, 2011
67
3
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
I'm not an immigration lawyer, but I am a visa officer for a private company (I make sure the companies clients and staff are visa compliant and apply and maintain their visas correctly). As a rule any offence that shows up on your record (and in some same cases not even these) will make you inadmissible to Canada. The onus is on the applicant to prove otherwise. The CIC is not equipped at all to discern what is a crime in one country and how it corresponds to criminal code in Canada. DUI is often cited on CIC forums and websites because it is one of the most common crimes in the world. In Canada a DUI is a hybrid offence, hence why even police officers who commit this act can sometimes keep their jobs after completing sentence. Dangerous driving and driving with a suspended licence fall under this category, especially if the fine has not been paid.

Personally, I have seen everything from shop lifting, filing for bankruptcy in the past, drunk and disorderly, disturbing the peace, and even admitting to a crime but never actually been formerly charged or convicted (A Client at a Canadian point of entry had correspondence on his phone about smoking pot with friends while in Thailand, and had to wait 5 years from the dates mentioned in the e-mail to apply for rehabilitation). Now not all these people were refused legitimately and had different options to appeal the decision (depending on the visa being applied for). However, this process is long, expensive, and in many cases requires good cross border legal advice. As most of these cases involve nuanced legal codes from multiple countries, lawyers are needed. Again, lawyers are expensive, and usually not within the means of the average person, especially a young couple applying for spousal sponsorship. It also means the CIC creates collateral damage as the Canadian sponsor will most likely leave Canada in a form of de-facto exile to be with their loved one. This serves no one.

Overall, Canada is one of the harshest countries in the world when it comes to admissibility, and it has not been proved statistically to protect Canadians in any way. In fact, crimes committed by foreign entrants has not changed from the old days when people used to stroll into Canada with a driver's licence. We call this "security theatre" in the business; Look like you're protecting Canadians even though these policies do little. Ultimately, it only hurts Canadian citizens. Citizens wishing to bring their family to Canada, the Canadian tax payer who has to pay for all this unnecessary bureaucracy and Canadian investment and tourism. Furthermore, CIC and CBSA will tell you this is not a punishment but a precautionary act. However this is clearly not true, as real dangerous criminals who want to get into Canada, generally don't try through PR applications that take years, they would just illegally cross.

The only thing I could advise, is try and wipe this from your record (although I realize most US states have no pardon system), however failing this, get your sponsor to write to their local MP to get some sort of action or review taken on your case. This is a bit of a long shot, but I have seen it done before and it is always worth a try. It also draws attention to the issue as this affects a multitude of Canadians. Also, if you are close to the Canadian border, some points of entry can process rehabilitation applications in a matter of days, and they may be able to work out your case and you can talk to a real human being who will decide your case (Contact CBSA to find out). Inadmissibility is a very serious international consequence of serious crime, but unfortunately Canada and the CIC use it as a dragnet to make their jobs amiable.
 

soblue3

Hero Member
Apr 13, 2014
334
26
Category........
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
AOR Received.
04-04-2014
File Transfer...
07-04-2014
Interview........
20-06-2014 denied Nov 1, 2014 application for appeal sent nov 15, 2014
Passport Req..
blue book received march 2015
i think best bet would be to pay the fine and get this dealt with in the us. then your sponsor should consult an immigration lawyer here in canada and see what can be done in this case. but i doubt immigration will change their mind if you have any pending issues with the usa legal system. you have to fix it there first. it would be a waste of money to pay any lawyers before this is fixed.
 

Jamesliam15

Full Member
Nov 2, 2015
25
0
Hello there

Just seen your post, sorry to hear that, hope you get some legal guidance and sort this soon! How did they inform you via letter in the mail?
 

SamHom

Hero Member
Oct 5, 2015
251
5
mpottier said:
I'm not an immigration lawyer, but I am a visa officer for a private company (I make sure the companies clients and staff are visa compliant and apply and maintain their visas correctly). As a rule any offence that shows up on your record (and in some same cases not even these) will make you inadmissible to Canada. The onus is on the applicant to prove otherwise. The CIC is not equipped at all to discern what is a crime in one country and how it corresponds to criminal code in Canada. DUI is often cited on CIC forums and websites because it is one of the most common crimes in the world. In Canada a DUI is a hybrid offence, hence why even police officers who commit this act can sometimes keep their jobs after completing sentence. Dangerous driving and driving with a suspended licence fall under this category, especially if the fine has not been paid.

Personally, I have seen everything from shop lifting, filing for bankruptcy in the past, drunk and disorderly, disturbing the peace, and even admitting to a crime but never actually been formerly charged or convicted (A Client at a Canadian point of entry had correspondence on his phone about smoking pot with friends while in Thailand, and had to wait 5 years from the dates mentioned in the e-mail to apply for rehabilitation). Now not all these people were refused legitimately and had different options to appeal the decision (depending on the visa being applied for). However, this process is long, expensive, and in many cases requires good cross border legal advice. As most of these cases involve nuanced legal codes from multiple countries, lawyers are needed. Again, lawyers are expensive, and usually not within the means of the average person, especially a young couple applying for spousal sponsorship. It also means the CIC creates collateral damage as the Canadian sponsor will most likely leave Canada in a form of de-facto exile to be with their loved one. This serves no one.

Overall, Canada is one of the harshest countries in the world when it comes to admissibility, and it has not been proved statistically to protect Canadians in any way. In fact, crimes committed by foreign entrants has not changed from the old days when people used to stroll into Canada with a driver's licence. We call this "security theatre" in the business; Look like you're protecting Canadians even though these policies do little. Ultimately, it only hurts Canadian citizens. Citizens wishing to bring their family to Canada, the Canadian tax payer who has to pay for all this unnecessary bureaucracy and Canadian investment and tourism. Furthermore, CIC and CBSA will tell you this is not a punishment but a precautionary act. However this is clearly not true, as real dangerous criminals who want to get into Canada, generally don't try through PR applications that take years, they would just illegally cross.

The only thing I could advise, is try and wipe this from your record (although I realize most US states have no pardon system), however failing this, get your sponsor to write to their local MP to get some sort of action or review taken on your case. This is a bit of a long shot, but I have seen it done before and it is always worth a try. It also draws attention to the issue as this affects a multitude of Canadians. Also, if you are close to the Canadian border, some points of entry can process rehabilitation applications in a matter of days, and they may be able to work out your case and you can talk to a real human being who will decide your case (Contact CBSA to find out). Inadmissibility is a very serious international consequence of serious crime, but unfortunately Canada and the CIC use it as a dragnet to make their jobs amiable.
The high lighted...seriously, why are they spending money on bull like that? Why are Canadiens accepting this? It's a waste of tax money and extremely inhumane.

Im curious now...have you ever seen anyone being inadmissible because of a say, regular speeding or parking ticket or say a ticket for driving without a seat belt or what not?
 

Ponga

VIP Member
Oct 22, 2013
10,416
1,468
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Here's something that will add fuel to the fire:
https://www.justlanded.com/english/Canada/Articles/Visas-Permits/Drunk-driving-ban-under-review

While the policy reasons for a ban on drunk drivers are obvious, Canada’s enforcement of this policy has recently come under attack. Documents obtained pursuant to our access-to-information laws reveal that Canada’s tourism industry, especially the sector involving fishing and hunting, is suffering because of the strict application of this law. It was furthermore suggested that border officers were applying the law “arbitrarily” and with a “lack of courtesy”.

While the loss of revenue from sport tourism is not an irrelevant consideration, it is dwarfed by the impact on our economy by the application of this policy on foreign businessmen and women, and in particular American executives. When Canada denies entry, or is seen to be ready to deny entry, to such individuals, Canadians stand to lose the benefit of the economic stimulus their entry might have brought our economy. In my office, the cases with the greatest potential impact on Canada’s economy are not those involving investors and entrepreneurs but, those involving senior executives headed to the Canadian branch of a multi-national corporation.
-------

So, being inadmissible for driving with a revoked or suspended license can kill a PR application, but...American businessmen may soon be able to enter Canada with a DUI conviction?!

Yeah...that makes sense.
 

SamHom

Hero Member
Oct 5, 2015
251
5
Ponga said:
Here's something that will add fuel to the fire:
https://www.justlanded.com/english/Canada/Articles/Visas-Permits/Drunk-driving-ban-under-review

While the policy reasons for a ban on drunk drivers are obvious, Canada’s enforcement of this policy has recently come under attack. Documents obtained pursuant to our access-to-information laws reveal that Canada’s tourism industry, especially the sector involving fishing and hunting, is suffering because of the strict application of this law. It was furthermore suggested that border officers were applying the law “arbitrarily” and with a “lack of courtesy”.

While the loss of revenue from sport tourism is not an irrelevant consideration, it is dwarfed by the impact on our economy by the application of this policy on foreign businessmen and women, and in particular American executives. When Canada denies entry, or is seen to be ready to deny entry, to such individuals, Canadians stand to lose the benefit of the economic stimulus their entry might have brought our economy. In my office, the cases with the greatest potential impact on Canada’s economy are not those involving investors and entrepreneurs but, those involving senior executives headed to the Canadian branch of a multi-national corporation.
-------

So, being inadmissible for driving with a revoked or suspended license can kill a PR application, but...American businessmen may soon be able to enter Canada with a DUI conviction?!

Yeah...that makes sense.
Money talks
 

gehtrew

Star Member
Nov 5, 2014
125
44
Category........
Visa Office......
Port of Spain
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
20/October/2014
Doc's Request.
04/Febuary/2015
AOR Received.
16/Febuary/2015
File Transfer...
01/March/2015./SA
Med's Request
None
Med's Done....
03/June/2014
Interview........
2/9/2015
Passport Req..
In-Process/07/August/2015
VISA ISSUED...
Waiting
LANDED..........
In God Timing
SamHom said:
Money talks
So I contacted several attorneys today and was told that from what they have read about my case, it can be technical,my case was way back in 1999 (16yrs) where I was found guilty of driving with a suspended license, so technically that is what I am charged for, driving without a license. The lawyer told me that I can pay the outstanding fees and hopefully the I.O.will change his/her stance on my application and grant me my P.R. I also did some research on other cases similar to mines and found out that several applicants had a criminal past and got there P.R. I was also told that if I pay the fees now then my inadmissible charged clock starts ticking and the I.O. can ban me for five years,hoping that this does not happen.
 

WidnesPR

Star Member
Nov 20, 2014
52
1
Calgary
Category........
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
10-11-2014
Doc's Request.
13-10-2015
Med's Done....
upfront ~ extended
Interview........
waived
Passport Req..
exempt
VISA ISSUED...
26-11-2015
LANDED..........
20-12-2015
gehtrew said:
So I contacted several attorneys today and was told that from what they have read about my case, it can be technical,my case was way back in 1999 (16yrs) where I was found guilty of driving with a suspended license, so technically that is what I am charged for, driving without a license. The lawyer told me that I can pay the outstanding fees and hopefully the I.O.will change his/her stance on my application and grant me my P.R. I also did some research on other cases similar to mines and found out that several applicants had a criminal past and got there P.R. I was also told that if I pay the fees now then my inadmissible charged clock starts ticking and the I.O. can ban me for five years,hoping that this does not happen.
Good luck I hope everything works out for you. Curious did you disclose the offence and provide and explanation when you first submitted your application ?
 

gehtrew

Star Member
Nov 5, 2014
125
44
Category........
Visa Office......
Port of Spain
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
20/October/2014
Doc's Request.
04/Febuary/2015
AOR Received.
16/Febuary/2015
File Transfer...
01/March/2015./SA
Med's Request
None
Med's Done....
03/June/2014
Interview........
2/9/2015
Passport Req..
In-Process/07/August/2015
VISA ISSUED...
Waiting
LANDED..........
In God Timing
WidnesPR said:
Good luck I hope everything works out for you. Curious did you disclose the offence and provide and explanation when you first submitted your application ?
Yes I did disclose all my info as it was on my FBI report and this 1999 case was the only one that was outstanding/open.
 

mpottier

Star Member
Jan 23, 2011
67
3
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
SamHom said:
The high lighted...seriously, why are they spending money on bull like that? Why are Canadiens accepting this? It's a waste of tax money and extremely inhumane.

Im curious now...have you ever seen anyone being inadmissible because of a say, regular speeding or parking ticket or say a ticket for driving without a seat belt or what not?
I have never seen anyone refused for a singe speeding ticket or parking ticket, but if you have many and have outstanding fines you can be refused entry. Especially if you have many speeding tickets that could be considered dangerous driving in Canada. Remember the CBSA are not lawyers, they have no formal training in Canadian Law or law from the hundreds of other nationalities they see on a regular basis. In Fact if you are from a country other than the USA, CBSA have no idea what your record is. Thousands of people with DUI's are allowed into the country every year, but they are from places like Japan, France, or New Zealand and the CBSA have no idea if they have a minor record from years ago. This would only become visible if they applied for Visa and have to supply a record check. I certainly understand why Americans get angry about this, not only is it over-zealous, it's unfair and lop-sided.
It should be noted that even if you apply for 'rehabilitation' or prove your record is not enough to be inadmissible, it will appear on CBSA's records for the rest of your life, and they will most likely pull you aside each time you enter Canada to discuss it.