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In Country Application or Out of Country Application?

Aug 26, 2008
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This is to ask if I can apply presently (February 14th, 2009) for an out of country sponsorship for my wife (married in Canada) who has overstayed her tourist visa by 2 years and will be
returning to her native country to visit her dying mother in June of 2009 (one way ticket booked already). I know that an out of country application is processed faster and won't come under as much scrutiny as that of an in country application--but she is technically in Canada, and we have only recently came to the decision to stop dawdling and get our feet on
firmer ground, so to speak. We want to make the right and honest choices that will allow her to return to Canada with ease after my mother in law is recovered, or passes.

Of course if we went by the Out of Country application I would write a brief letter explaining our situation as I would with an In Country Application. Any ideas, suggestions? Does anyone know if we can apply first using an in-country app and then transfer to an out of country app after her return to her native country?

Thanks allot folks.
 

ariell

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Oct 9, 2008
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No, you cannot apply with an inland and transfer to an outland application. They are two separate application forms. You can still file outland even when you are both within Canada. The "outland" refers to where her application will be processed, not where your partner is physically located. But inland vs. outland is really not the issue here. The real issue is your wife's status. I think your assumption that an outland application will come under less scrutiny than an inland is incorrect. Both will be equally scrutinized and in your case even more so given that your wife has technically been living in Canada illegally for the past 2 years. That's the real issue here. I would STRONGLY advise you to consult an immigration lawyer before you proceed. It's great that you want to come clean and clear things up, but you are on shaky ground here. If Canada Immigration finds out that your wife is here illegally, she can be deported and that can certainly count against her in your sponsorship application, potentially even making her inadmissable to re-enter Canada. Good luck.
 
Aug 26, 2008
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Ariell the problem is that she is now returning to her country of origin--this means that I am filing the application this month before her departure, and not after her departure. I can optionally and unscrupulously file an outland after she leaves. I disagree with your definition of outland or inland, as the official immigration site has defined the use of the inland application as when the applicant is residing in Canada, hence "in land"--certainly one cannot be expected to attend a meeting or interview at a Canadian consulate if it is scheduled outside of Canada (as with an outland application) when one resides in Canada.

Your response makes as if you are speaking from knowledgeable authority Ariell, and assumes that we have not been aware of the gravity of the situation during these two years.
 
Aug 26, 2008
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my assumption on the fact that less scrutiny is given to outland apps is because such applications often are not complicated with the legalities of overstaying a visa or
illegal residency. I do not mean that such applications are given less thought, or judged on looser standards. I have said that we are in a position to rectify our circumstances in an honest way so that my wife will have less trouble returning if she does, after staying with her mother--in a way that is regarded by the officials as wanting to do things the right way.

I am also not attempting to elude the officials by choosing an outland application, as I have said that I would disclose a letter detailing our circumstances as I would with an inland application. I am simply asking which application should I be sending if I was to apply now in February, with my wife's scheduled departure in June of 2009.
 

ariell

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Oct 9, 2008
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paterseraphicus said:
Ariell the problem is that she is now returning to her country of origin--this means that I am filing the application this month before her departure, and not after her departure. I can optionally and unscrupulously file an outland after she leaves.
Sorry I don't understand your point. How would filing an outland application after your wife leaves be unscrupulous???

Again, you CAN file an outland application while your spouse is still in Canada. I know people who have done this successfully. It only means that the spouse's permanent residence application will be processed at a visa office in their own country. And yes, if an interview is scheduled, it will be scheduled in the spouse's home country and yes you are expected to attend. But your situation is obviously complicated by your wife's status which is why I suggested you contact a lawyer who would certainly be able to advise you better than people in an online forum.

I didn't mean to suggest that you are not aware of the gravity of the situation. But your original post certainly sounded like you thought the only issue was inland vs. outland when the real issue is your wife's status. I'm not even sure that you can file inland given that your wife has no status here. By submitting the application now (while your wife is still here out of status) then you may run the risk of her being deported. So that's why I urged you to seek legal counsel so that you are choosing the best option and not making decisions based on insufficient information that you may later regret. Personally, if I were in your position, I would absolutely contact a lawyer before making any decisions and that's why I suggested that you do as well. I was simply trying to point out a very real potential problem that it didn't sound like you had taken into consideration. Sorry if you were offended. I was only trying to help. In all honesty though, if you don't want to hear opinions that differ from your own then perhaps you shouldn't seek advice in an online forum. I assume that you are also aware that an inland application, in contrast to an outland application, has no chance of appeal if denied.

Best of luck to you. I really do think it's great that you want to be honest and upfront with immigration. But please do yourself a favour and get some professional advice first.
 

msgomez

Star Member
Dec 5, 2008
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paterseraphicus, I wouldn't recommend submitting an Inland Application if your wife does not have legal status here - that could very well jepordize the outcome. I would suggest you file and Outland App once your wife leaves the country.
 

RobsLuv

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Jul 14, 2008
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OK, hold on a second . . . actually, pater, ariell's description of inland v outland is correct!! There's an important distinction that you're not recognizing that could actually bury you guys! There are some really important considerations here that you're not understanding - in fact, many important considerations. So let me read over the thread and I'll post more concise info in a few minutes. But, just from a cursory reading, you need to be listening more and understanding that we're trying to help. Please try to hear us, and don't be so inclined to argue what you understand from reading the CIC website. Unfotunately the CIC website, and information that you get from Call Centre agents and local office personell is notorious for being misleading!
 

RobsLuv

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Jul 14, 2008
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App. Filed.......
Original:14Mar2007; Reprocess began after appeal:26Apr2010
Doc's Request.
Original:9May'07; Reprocess:7May'10
AOR Received.
Original:28Apr'07; Reprocess:26Apr'10
File Transfer...
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OK, pater - I know you're honestly wanting to do the right thing, but you've gotten caught up (like alot of people) in language on the CIC website that (whether it's intentional on their part of not) is misleading you about how this process works and about what the right thing to do actually is.

First of all, what ariell has said about inland v outland is correct. Every foreign national has the right to have their application processed at the visa office that represents their country of birth - regardless of where they may be living or visiting (including Canada) during processing. CIC cannot force someone, just because they're in Canada, to file an inland application because that application does two things: it requires you (as the sponsor) to forfeit your right to appeal a refusal, and it forces the applicant to remain in Canada throughout the duration of processing because it requires that the applicant be residing in Canada with their spouse/sponsor in order to be approved.

In addition, the inland process will NOT rectify your wife's overstay! In fact, your wife's overstay actually complicates an inland application - it means that it cannot and will not be processed at the Case Processing Centre in Vegreville within normal processing timelines (which would result in her receiving first stage approval - and new temporary status - within 6-7 months). Instead, your ap would be transferred to your local CIC office for processing BEFORE first stage approval, and would become subject to the local office's timelines. Some local offices are backlogged in excess of two years! That means that not only would you have "tipped them off" to your wife's overstay by filing an inland application, but they would then, basically, hold her PR hostage over it, and leave you guys sitting with 1) her still not having legal temporary status (which means she could be deported), and 2) no options for rectifying that by leaving Canada because, if she left, she'd likely be unable to return and then she wouldn't be able to meet the inland requirement for residing in Canada in order to be approved. This is what you'd be facing if you filed inland. And, as you see, filing inland is also a bad idea in your case because she's already intending to leave Canada to be with her mother. If she can't get back into Canada, your inland ap (and the fees, and the medicals and everything else) is gone! There is no guarantee that she will be allowed to re-enter Canada - in fact, if she is non-visa-exempt it's likely she will not be able to get another visitor visa to come back to Canada . . . simply because she is married to you. It seems really screwy, I know, but being married to a Canadian means that she will be absolutely unable to convince them that she honestly intends to visit Canada temporarily, and that means they will be unable to issue her "temporary" status. If she's visa exempt, that situation changes - but you'd need to accompany her on her re-entry.

So - your best option for a successful and expedient application is an outland ap. You need to understand two things: first of all, the processing officer at the overseas visa office is not concerned with whether or not your wife has overstayed in Canada . . . even if she wasn't going home to visit her sick mother. In addition, once she DOES leave Canada, she is immediately in compliance again . . . the overstay is erased. So you don't have to make explanation for that - it's over the minute she leaves Canadian soil. Right now Immigration Canada is completely unaware of her overstay - it does not need to be disclosed, and won't be disclosed unless you make the mistake of filing an inland application! Secondly, you don't have to wait until she leaves Canada to file the outland ap. There is absolutely NO requirement that an applicant has to be physically outside of Canada to file an outland application. The sooner you get that application in process, the sooner she's back with you as a landed immigrant. (If you let us know where she's from we can tell you which visa office will process her ap and what their processing timeline is.)

Obviously there's a lot to consider here - so please write again with any more questions. You're also welcome to email me, if you like. Just don't back yourselves into a corner here thinking that you're required to file inland if she wants to be in Canada - and secondly, assuming that her re-entry to Canada is a given because of her marriage to you.
 

shamrock

Star Member
Feb 13, 2009
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"So you don't have to make explanation for that - it's over the minute she leaves Canadian soil. Right now Immigration Canada is completely unaware of her overstay - it does not need to be disclosed, and won't be disclosed unless you make the mistake of filing an inland application!"


But doesn't she have to disclose legally that she has lived here for the time she has in the outland forms as well? Where it has you account for what you have been doing for every month since age 18?
 

RobsLuv

Champion Member
Jul 14, 2008
1,838
127
124
Ontario
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
Original:14Mar2007; Reprocess began after appeal:26Apr2010
Doc's Request.
Original:9May'07; Reprocess:7May'10
AOR Received.
Original:28Apr'07; Reprocess:26Apr'10
File Transfer...
n/a
Med's Request
Reprocessing:7May2010
Med's Done....
Jun2010
Interview........
n/a
Passport Req..
30Nov2010!!
VISA ISSUED...
31Dec2010!!
LANDED..........
31Jan2011
shamrock said:
RobsLuv said:
So you don't have to make explanation for that - it's over the minute she leaves Canadian soil. Right now Immigration Canada is completely unaware of her overstay - it does not need to be disclosed, and won't be disclosed unless you make the mistake of filing an inland application!
But doesn't she have to disclose legally that she has lived here for the time she has in the outland forms as well? Where it has you account for what you have been doing for every month since age 18?
Yes, it's true that she will have to list all of her addresses since age 18 - but the point is that as soon as she leaves Canada she is back in compliance - the overstay, even if it's "recorded" on the application, is a moot point. An overstay in any country is not an inadmissible offence - so it doesn't matter. Where it does matter, however, is if they file inland - because she will still be in Canada illegally, with no option to leave and reinstate her status - so, therefore, she's subject to deportation. And if she's deported, then she needs an Authorization to Return to Canada from the Minister before she'd be allowed to re-enter - even after PR approval (which, BTW, would have to be gained via an outland ap because the deportation would result in forfeiture of the inland ap). An ARC takes a long time to get, and is very expensive . . . so, IMHO, it's not worth the risk. Since she's intending to return home anyway, the inland ap is not an option, and the outland ap is the safest and most expedient way to get back to Canada with permanent status. Yes, there is a risk that once she leaves Canada, she won't be allowed back until after PR is granted - but that's a risk whether they file inland or outland. Once she's out of the country there is no guarantee of temporary re-entry . . . but it's still her only option for compliance at this point.
 
Aug 26, 2008
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hello folks, I didn't expect so many replies to my question. But I'm glad, really. All these messages have been
encouraging and I thank both Ariell and RobsLuv for their informative posts. I am grateful to have my misconceptions
cleared up in regards to the outland and inland apps and have decided to file an outland app before my wife
returns to her country of origin.

I initially approached this forum petulantly as I have with all this mumbojumbo in applying and did not expect
such a great magnitude of consequences to be had with deciding to go with one app or the other. I have
been misinformed by the official website, and from where we are located now in rural Canada, do not have access to
immigration lawyers. This forum and the official website is all I have to reference and guide my application.

Thank you all again. And I apologize especially to Ariell, for I, in truth, really don't know anything about immigration
except what I have been reading on the official website. I am sorry.
 
Aug 26, 2008
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What I meant earlier about applying an outland after my wife departs as being unscrupulous, I was suggesting
the fact that I would be indulging again in abetting her to overstay for an additional 4 months, not sending in
the application or ordering her to return any earlier. If I applied now in February to sponsor her, and my request
is processed and preliminarily reviewed before June, the month of her departure, how would I explain the fact that
she overstayed an additional 4 months despite my sending of the application in February if indeed my application
is to be perceived as a commitment to rectify her situation and apply for PR the right way?
 

msgomez

Star Member
Dec 5, 2008
131
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Canada
RobsLuv said:
Secondly, you don't have to wait until she leaves Canada to file the outland ap. There is absolutely NO requirement that an applicant has to be physically outside of Canada to file an outland application.
Robsluv, correct me if I'm wrong (I'll be the first to admit I don't know everything about this proces) but wouldn't filing an Outland app when she is physically still in Canada be untruthful. The application requires she enter her current address - if she entered the address of her home country when she is presently living here, wouldn't that be disclosing false information to CIC and fall under misinterpretation? If CIC found out, this could seriously jepordize their application.
 

ariell

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Hi Pater
No problem. No hard feelings. I'm glad you got the information you needed. Good luck.
 

rich_m0nd

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Jan 10, 2009
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hi so i'm already being sponsored by my wife and i was just wondering how long it's gonna take. i'm also thinking of going home to the philippines. though it's not urgent but it's gonna be helpful for my career and also it might be easier for the process.