Immigration Fraud, Marriage of Convenience, Marriage Fraud and Marriage Scam.

[Leon]

Re: Immigration Fraud, Marriage of Convenience, Marriage Fraud and Marriage Scam

It is the first type for which anti-gold-digger laws exist in other countries. Canada should follow suit. And where the PR has lied in the application, there should be no question: deportation. Why should Canada condone such lying and cheating, just because the PR got away with cheating long enough to land? Deportation after landing should be an option too.

It has been on the table for quite some time to follow suit with the US and take up a temporary PR card for 2 years for sponsored spouses but I haven't heard of it being implemented yet.

As for the lying, again, there is no proof that his wife lied. Maybe she did and maybe it was her plan all along to leave him and if he could prove it, found some emails, found she had another boyfriend already in Canada waiting to sponsor her, then maybe he'd have a chance. Marriages can break apart at any time, after a day, after a month, a year or 20 without anybody having lied about anything. Sometimes it just happens.

 

[toby]

Re: Immigration Fraud, Marriage of Convenience, Marriage Fraud and Marriage Scam

First off, you replied to a post since 2007 and I do believe they are cracking down more now than they were then. Second, did the spouse of that guy lie on her application? Could it be proven that she lied? If there is no proof that she lied, there is no misrepresentation. She can say that she was in love with him but as she arrived, he treated her badly and she left him.

There was one woman on this forum who claimed to have had her ex deported because of a lie. He had also left her and she knew of a period of 2 months in his background history where he was unemployed but had written that he had attended a school because he thought it looked better. She asked for an investigation into that lie and he was deported because of it. This woman worked for immigration herself though, maybe not in the proper office to deport him but in any case, her request for an investigation may have had more weight than your average joe.

If CIC has discovered a spine since 2007, that is good news. I admit I did not notice the dates. I was referring to cases where the jilted sponsor claimed to know of lies in the PR’s application, told CIC, and CIC said something like “so sorry; nothing we can do.” If this milquetoast policy has changed, great.

But it needs to be noticed that the Law against misrepresentation in PR applications has not changed, only CIC’s change in attitude, it’s new-found willingness to do its job.

Again (I responded to this point in a different reply), I take you point that some PRs deserve leniency – where they have made a life for a few years in Canada. But the ones who land and disappear at the airport, or abandon the relationship quickly deserve no leniency.

And the ones who unfortunately find themselves in an abusive relationship can surely return to the life they so recently left. I don’t accept the principle that just because they land, means they have an automatic right to stay where the reason for coming (the relationship) has disappeared, even if it is not the PR’s fault.

Sure some Canadians are more compassionate than I am, and want to offer refuge to the poorer PRs. But there is a cost to this, in addition to the direct cost to the sponsor. If some Canadians want to offer refuge and financial help, let them pay themselves instead of foisting the costs on all taxpayers. Tax rates are already high enough.

 

[Leon]

I have no problem with them being kicked out but there are currently no means to do that unless it can be proven that they committed marriage fraud or misrepresentation. Otherwise they are just a PR with the rights of any other PR and that is to keep their PR status until they commit a crime or fail to meet the residency requirements.

With the new 2 year law, there will be a way to kick them out but then you will have cases where the scammers will just fake the relationship for another 2 years and then leave and you will have people whose marriages break up without misrepresentation within the 2 years where they may have a child already and families will be broken up because one parent is going to get deported. I don't think there is any one rule that can be applied to solve this problem completely.

 

[toby]

I have no problem with them being kicked out but there are currently no means to do that unless it can be proven that they committed marriage fraud or misrepresentation.

But there's the rub; CIC apparently has the power to deport where the PR misrepresented in the application, yet (according to several reports in this thread) has refused to do so.

I am not focusing on the case you mention (where you say that there is no proof that the PR lied in the application); I am focusing on the pattern in which CIC is provided proof of misrepresentation by the aggrieved sponsor, and still refuses to take action, as reported several times in this thread, cases in which there is indeed something that CIC could do if they wished.

Again, if CIC has toughened its stance, great. But the proposed change in favour of conditional PRs does not (as far as I know) confer any new powers of deportation onto CIC; those powers exist now. It's a question of "Will CIC man up and use them?"



Otherwise they are just a PR with the rights of any other PR and that is to keep their PR status until they commit a crime or fail to meet the residency requirements. Agreed

With the new 2 year law, there will be a way to kick them out but then you will have cases where the scammers will just fake the relationship for another 2 years and then leave and you will have people whose marriages break up without misrepresentation within the 2 years where they may have a child already and families will be broken up because one parent is going to get deported. I don't think there is any one rule that can be applied to solve this problem completely.

Unless I misunderstand the 2-year law, there are (again) no new powers of deportation; sufficient ones exist already. So it is wrong to accept that CIC must passively wait for the new law to be passed before deporting proven misrepresenters. CIC could do it now.

What's new is that the PR visa is not permanent until the couple shows they are together for two years. You're right, a determined scammer will tough out the 2 years, get the visa confirmed, then split. B the 2-year wait might screen out those who are planning a quick split. Maybe they will hunt elsewhere for easier prey. Outer Slobovia, perhaps.

 

[Leon]

I am not focusing on the case you mention (where you say that there is no proof that the PR lied in the application); I am focusing on the pattern in which CIC is provided proof of misrepresentation by the aggrieved sponsor, and still refuses to take action, as reported several times in this thread, cases in which there is indeed something that CIC could do if they wished.

I think there have been cases of misrepresentation in the past where CIC has done nothing and I think they are now doing more but sometimes misrepresentation can be hard to prove. When a marriage breaks down there is often a lot of bitterness and I have seen people after several years of marriage where there was no misrepresentation involved come to this or other forums and ask how they can get their ex deported. CIC can not go by he said, she said. If there is misrepresentation, they need proof of it.

I am saying that when a marriage breaks down, there is not always misrepresentation involved and by law, as far as I know, they have no right to revoke somebody's PR solely because of a marriage breakdown. You seem to be saying that if the marriage breaks up for whatever reason, the sponsored spouse should be sent packing, even if they had not misrepresented themselves.

With the new 2 year law, CIC gets the added powers that if they couple have already split up for whatever reason, they will not renew the PR. That is how I understand it anyway. As for the misrepresentation, if it can be proven, they should be deported. I remember one guy on here stating that his wife had only stayed with him until the PR card arrived in the mail, then she took off. Most likely it was misrepresentation but can you prove it? If you were to ask the wife, she would say that her husband treated her badly and that why she left. Unless there is some proof that she planned to leave him on the day she landed, there is no misrepresentation. The guy who told that story had joined a support group for deserted spouses and there he met a man who had sponsored a wife who landed without informing him and he met her later in his city with another man. Now that is a clear case of misrepresentation because if she didn't even inform him that she landed, she obviously had no plans to stay with him but I do not know if he reported her for this.

 

[toby]

I think there have been cases of misrepresentation in the past where CIC has done nothing and I think they are now doing more but sometimes misrepresentation can be hard to prove. When a marriage breaks down there is often a lot of bitterness and I have seen people after several years of marriage where there was no misrepresentation involved come to this or other forums and ask how they can get their ex deported. CIC can not go by he said, she said. If there is misrepresentation, they need proof of it.

I am saying that when a marriage breaks down, there is not always misrepresentation involved and by law, as far as I know, they have no right to revoke somebody's PR solely because of a marriage breakdown. You seem to be saying that if the marriage breaks up for whatever reason, the sponsored spouse should be sent packing, even if they had not misrepresented themselves.

With the new 2 year law, CIC gets the added powers that if they couple have already split up for whatever reason, they will not renew the PR. That is how I understand it anyway. As for the misrepresentation, if it can be proven, they should be deported. I remember one guy on here stating that his wife had only stayed with him until the PR card arrived in the mail, then she took off. Most likely it was misrepresentation but can you prove it? If you were to ask the wife, she would say that her husband treated her badly and that why she left. Unless there is some proof that she planned to leave him on the day she landed, there is no misrepresentation. The guy who told that story had joined a support group for deserted spouses and there he met a man who had sponsored a wife who landed without informing him and he met her later in his city with another man. Now that is a clear case of misrepresentation because if she didn't even inform him that she landed, she obviously had no plans to stay with him but I do not know if he reported her for this.

I think you are using “misrepresentation” to mean faking good intentions, then leaving the
relationship once the PR visa is secure. This would indeed be hard to prove.

I am talking about a PR who falsifies facts in the PR application, as mentioned in one of these posts. Reportedly the sponsor told CIC, who refused to take action. The fact is (I believe) that CIC has the power to deport for such misrepresentation right now; no need to wait for the new law. For some reason – perhaps more so in the past than now -- CIC refused to take action.

I don’t know why CIC dragged its heels, since proving misrepresentation in the application would be relatively easy by re-checking background.

 

[Leon]

For sure, if they lied about something on their application, that would be easy to prove and they should be kicked out but how often does it happen that somebody who commits marriage fraud also blatantly lied about something on their application? I am guessing not too often.

 

[humpakwatankaylog]

Re: Immigration Fraud, Marriage of Convenience, Marriage Fraud and Marriage Scam

Hi Gilipsie:

I called Immigration Numerous times. There is a process where they could investigate and have my spouse deported.
She would have to have done a crime before our marriage then when Immigration finds out, she could be deported.
Otherwise, Immigration feels it is ok to wear me out until I am exhausted then I would quit and divorce after 3 years.
Immigration shuffles me aside and tells me that this is a marriage breakdown.
There are LOTS and lots of victims like me. Many who just sit back and wait. But I chose to fight back, to uphold justice.

Immigration so far have not gone after her.
Thanks

How do you know they have not gone after her? These days they are going after these cases. I am sorry to hear about this though. It is an ordeal in itself to sponsor and then the person you love does this.

 

[Champion D]

@ Dancing Feather it seems to me that your're and immigration lawyer.........can u give me ur contact details.

 

[victimfraud]

Is there someone who succeed to deport the fraud person? I am a victim of the marriage fraud too, but the worst is that I gave birth to a baby that the guy used it to secure his immigration. I want to know if someone has gone through all the report and investigation, how it works with CIC and border service agency? How long it will take to finish the investigation and deport the person?

 

[newtone]

I don't think the person can be deported, instead he might seek financial support from you since you have signed a document to financially support him for 3 years

 

[PMM]

Hi

I don't think the person can be deported, instead he might seek financial support from you since you have signed a document to financially support him for 3 years

Sure they can, search http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/index.html with the text marriage and misrepresentation.

 

[Azuree]

Re: Immigration Fraud, Marriage of Convenience, Marriage Fraud and Marriage Scam

I'm quite convinced that Immigration will go after fraud cases where the spouse has dumped the sponsor shortly after receiving their PR card. I for one had to deal with this particular thing. I did not hear from Immigration, which is normal, due to the privacy rights of my spouse. However, I heard through other channels that she was deported within three months of my complaint.

So, what does one do when this happens to themselves? This is the long and short of what I did:

1) I kept meticulous notes when my spouse started doing strange things upon arrival. Via Google I'm sure you can find some typical examples. A lot of these cases follow several permutations of a particular pattern.

2) When I went to Immigration, I ensured that everything was extremely well organized, in a chronological order. Everything I said was backed up with facts. Nice, neat, tidy, and concise.

3) There are several sites which offer guidance when this happens, and who to contact. Contact and follow up.

4) Be patient, but persistent, and polite.

I'm sure that in a lot of these cases, the person doing the conning goes from lie to lie to lie, and cannot string them together. It was pretty obvious to me that this was occurring with my spouse.

How do you know they have not gone after her? These days they are going after these cases. I am sorry to hear about this though. It is an ordeal in itself to sponsor and then the person you love does this.

 

[watsonwoo]

Hi:

I got my annulment on May 20, 2008.
My sponsorship expired Sept 2009.

I called and confirm that I do not owe any money for welfare payback. A big weight off my shoulders.

If you call Canada Border services to investigate they played ping pong telling me to call Immigration Canada. But I was told that when you call Canada Border services you must say the words: " I want to report a violation in Immigration law." then they would listen. Why? I do not know.

Also, when you call Immigration to report Marriage fraud, the clerks are trained to read a script telling you (the victim) that there is nothing they can do. You could call endlessly telling them that according to the law, this is a Marriage of Convenience.
Someone told me that if I am determined, I should strongly request to speak with a supervisor. Which I never did.

Plus out of all this, I spent $1000 on useless lawyers because they double their fees. Only 1 lawyer helped me. Sorry, no name, he's retired.
The timing is so great, when I got my annulment, it was the day the news media announced that Immigration admitted that there are marriage fraud going on. But they will only send officers to the foreign countries to deal with them.

At least I am free.

 

[watsonwoo]

Re: Immigration Fraud, Marriage of Convenience, Marriage Fraud and Marriage Scam

First off, you replied to a post since 2007 and I do believe they are cracking down more now than they were then. Second, did the spouse of that guy lie on her application? Could it be proven that she lied? If there is no proof that she lied, there is no misrepresentation. She can say that she was in love with him but as she arrived, he treated her badly and she left him.

There was one woman on this forum who claimed to have had her ex deported because of a lie. He had also left her and she knew of a period of 2 months in his background history where he was unemployed but had written that he had attended a school because he thought it looked better. She asked for an investigation into that lie and he was deported because of it. This woman worked for immigration herself though, maybe not in the proper office to deport him but in any case, her request for an investigation may have had more weight than your average joe.

That is correct. I remembered that she kept telling me that everything was ok. And 'Don't worry.' She addressed me as 'husband'. She kept telling me this until she arrived on Sept 2006.