If CBSA don't track exits to Europe, how can a border officer know when you left

[worriedanxious007]

Not for the purpose of deception whatsoever, just curious.
I saw that CBSA don't track exits from the country. So say you have been away for a year, and upon returning they ask how long you've been gone, if you say a month, what then?

 

[ZingyDNA]

Not for the purpose of deception whatsoever, just curious.
I saw that CBSA don't track exits from the country. So say you have been away for a year, and upon returning they ask how long you've been gone, if you say a month, what then?

Well, you might lucky and they believe you. Or, either on the spot or at some point later, they decide to verify your statement. At this technology age, it would be pretty easy to track your movements all over the world, as long as they want to do it. So if you lie, do it at your own risk, unless you are an international criminal who experts in hiding your tracks and telling a lie

 

[scylla]

Not for the purpose of deception whatsoever, just curious.
I saw that CBSA don't track exits from the country. So say you have been away for a year, and upon returning they ask how long you've been gone, if you say a month, what then?

They have access to flight manifests. A CBSA officer quoted my husband's exits and entries off a comupter screen at the airport (including flights to the US, Europe and Africa). Don't assume they don't know or you could end up in a heap of trouble for lying.

 

[worriedanxious007]

If that is true, why do they say they only track exits? Why is there a big rule change going on so that flights between US and Canada are monitored? If they already had all this info as you say, then they wouldn't rule change.
I think you are wrong, or else it would state that they track all exits from Canada. If your husband st some point renewed PR card, then they would of course gather all the info from that application. Otherwise, why would border even ask when you left if they already have the info????

 

[ZingyDNA]

If that is true, why do they say they only track exits? Why is there a big rule change going on so that flights between US and Canada are monitored? If they already had all this info as you say, then they wouldn't rule change.
I think you are wrong, or else it would state that they track all exits from Canada. If your husband st some point renewed PR card, then they would of course gather all the info from that application. Otherwise, why would border even ask when you left if they already have the info????

To see if you are honest or not

 

[worriedanxious007]

Has anyone noticed that these incidents always happen to a husband or friend but never to the actual poster? I want to know the facts about whether they really track exits from Canada??

 

[scylla]

Has anyone noticed that these incidents always happen to a husband or friend but never to the actual poster? I want to know the facts about whether they really track exits from Canada??

Yes - it happened to my husband and I was standing right next to him when it happened (we were in secondary inspection - this was around 5-6 years ago BEFORE he had PR). My husband "lived" as a visitor in Canada for a few years before coming PR and traveled in and out of Canada frequently (he's in international development work and flies all over the globe). Luckily he was only called to secondary twice. I was with him the second time it happened and we were returning from a trip overseas. The CBSA agent literally read of a complete list of his entries and exists for the last four months (this list included both air and land border crossings) and asked him why he was spending so much time in Canada. Luckily we had logged an outland application by then and had proof with us (I had already been approved as sponsor). My husband also had evidence of his next scheduled flight out of Canada (a week or so later) and evidence of assets in the US. I think the fact I was with him also helped. So the agent let him go with a reminder that he should be careful and understand the rules to follow as a visitor.

The long and the short of it is that by attending school outside of Canada and not meeting the residency obligation - there is no guarantee you will be able to retain your PR status. You just have to accept that and live with that risk - or change your plans in order to meet the residency obligation. Those are your only two choices.

 

[worriedanxious007]

As a visitor the rules are different to a PR resident.
Question-why do the immigration require CBSA report then? And why are only exits documented? And if every flight was recorded for every person, why would a PR resident need to fill in a form at all to prove resident days if it's already recorded?
As a visitor your husband would have had to declare his travels on every journey. Hence why they held data about him.

 

[keesio]

And if every flight was recorded for every person, why would a PR resident need to fill in a form at all to prove resident days if it's already recorded?

resource management. they can get all this info on their own but it will take time and resources. So they simply ask people to provide it to them to make it easier on them and just pull the basic info they can get easier. But if they want to pay close attention to a particular applicant for whatever reason (suspicious), then they will pull all the data on their own and double-check it themselves.

think of it like CRA. We submit our tax info to them. They can investigate a lot of the info themselves but they can't do it for everyone since that takes too much resources. So they will just audit a few of the returns.

 

[1234567]

Hey guys,
I just want to know what if accidentally one of the wrong date has been put in PR card renewal form but all other dates are correct and also number of counting of days is correct.
Error is in the year but total number of days out of Canada are still the correct ones.
Is it serious ?this should be corrected right away or we should just wait for CIC to contact us?
I am not even sure if this happened .But I am just thinking that this has happened .I don't have a copy of application.
Please guide.

 

[Lammawitch]

Has anyone noticed that these incidents always happen to a husband or friend but never to the actual poster? I want to know the facts about whether they really track exits from Canada??

Yes they can and do, see Scylla's replies. I have had a similar experience.

I had to leave Canada for a family emergency with an expired PR card a few years ago. When I came back, I had prepared a list of my travels (with supporting documentation) for the preceding 5 years to show I met my RO. I offered it to the CBSA on arrival who simply said " that's not necessary, I have it here", as he looked at his screen.

 

[torontosm]

Has anyone noticed that these incidents always happen to a husband or friend but never to the actual poster? I want to know the facts about whether they really track exits from Canada??

I personally have experienced a CBSA officer telling me exactly when I left Canada, and I`m a citizen.

 

[dpenabill]

Scary! I'm just really nervous as I never lie and I'm terrified they will take my PR away as I've ben gone four yearss when I return. If i make at least a visit back for a month in between will this help my case at all?
My PR card will be valid for six months when I plan to land back in Canada. Just wondering how often they report someone in those circumstances and how likely it is I'll have it taken away? This is my second PR card, the first five years i never left Canada. If I'm just honest and tell the officer I've been completing my medicine degree herr in Europe do you think it's possible they will not report me? I still have a residence address with my best friendin Canada, active bank accounts etc.

You have no alternative but to be fully honest in answering questions, including in the custom's declaration form. Any deceptiveness (including evasive responses) risks things going significantly worse, from bad to really bad.

Your timeline suggests a high risk for a secondary referral and questions. Technically you are also at high risk to be given a 44(1) report followed by a Removal Order, following which however you are allowed to enter Canada and which you can appeal.

If the POE officer considers writing a 44(1) report, the officer must consider everything you offer to explain or excuse why you have not spent time in Canada or did not return to Canada sooner. But the weight the officer gives to the finishing educational program abroad is, well, uncertain.

For a PR still within the first five years since landing, still in possession of a PR card, arriving in Canada to actually settle in Canada, having established significant ties in Canada, with a good (and credible) story explaining intent to establish a life in Canada but compelling reasons delaying actually doing it, it APPEARS (reports are too sporadic and otherwise unreliable for anyone here to any where near "know") that the CBSA officers at the POE can be fairly lenient if not generous . . . but that goes out the window, right out the window, if they sense someone is gaming the system or being in any way evasive let alone deceptive.

There is no way of knowing for sure, and virtually no way of having even a good idea, what will happen at the POE until you actually arrive at the POE. While quite a few reports suggest that PRs fudging the facts, or even outright lying (such as understating how long it has been since they were last in Canada), get away with it, the odds of getting away with fudging are a lot, lot less today than they were in the past . . . and the odds that CBSA will discern evasiveness or deceptiveness is a lot, lot higher these days . . . and if the latter happens, it almost certainly will not go good from there.

The sooner you arrive in Canada the better your odds. It is fine to use a Canadian address, but not a good idea to claim it is any more than what it is. The odds are very high CBSA will identify you as returning without being in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, so your best chances are in persuading them how important it was to complete your degree and that you have intended all along to fully settle in Canada as soon as possible.

 

[worriedanxious007]

This would be my second PR card, ntt first five years I didn't leave Canada

 

[dpenabill]

That does make it more problematic.

You could contact an immigration lawyer in Canada to go over your situation.

One of the elements for consideration is the extent to which the PR has established himself or herself in Canada. So if you spent five years in Canada before going abroad for the educational program, that could help. If, in contrast, you barely met the PR RO at the time you previously renewed your PR card, that probably makes things more difficult.

Thing is, as I have alluded to, the extent of enforcement has increased in recent years, the strictness of enforcement appears to have increased in recent years, the capacity of CBSA and CIC to monitor has increased significantly, and so on.

How the excuses exchange goes is very individual, and undoubtedly varies greatly.

If CBSA gets the scent of evasiveness or deception, however, any sense of gaming the system, how it goes then is very predictable, not good for the PR.