IEC + Partner sponship/OWP -> Implied status: to work or not to work?

[renoreaper]

Hello all,

I'm quite new on this forum, I've been extensively reading up on the Open work permit pilot program for partners, as well as the possibility of having implied status with permission to work (originating from an IEC work permit)

So far I've managed to find a lot of confusing statements and some very strong opinions arguing that you can/can't work under the implied status you would supposedly receive from IEC+ Work permit application via PR Sponsorship (mail-in inland partner sponsorship, with application for work permit included).

I'll start off by describing my current situation, and the answers I have personally received from CIC call centre agents and an immigration consultant.

I've been in Canada since end of February last year under IEC and am currently working. My employer agreed to start an LMIA procedure as soon as I started working. This past week we were informed that the LMIA was rejected on grounds of it being a more junior position.

Meanwhile, my girlfriend agreed to sponsor me for a PR application and so we mailed in a Common-Law sponsorship PR application along with an application for an open work permit on December 24th 2014. I was under the impression that this would grant me implied status and allow me to keep working. I made this assumption based on a CICNews article I had found on CICNews (not allowed to post a url it seems) as well as on a number of calls with the CIC call centre agents (I called the number printed on my IEC work permit). I've been in touch several times with CIC call centre agents, and every time I specifically asked if I would be allowed to keep working under my implied status based on the fact that I had applied for a new OWP and was currently on an IEC work permit.

However, during this last week I posted something about this on an IEC forum post on an unrelated forum and someone told me that I should stop working once my IEC work permit expires, because there is no implied status under IEC (his logic was: an IEC visa cannot be extended and implied status = a type of extension). This person also told me that, if I did continue to work it would be considered illegal and it could jeopardize my entire PR and OWP application. Naturally, this got me quite worried and so I called the CIC call center again. I carefully explained my situation to the agent (including my doubts that IEC could result in implied status), and asked the agent to verify this. The agent told me he was 99% sure that I would be allowed to continue to work under this implied status. But, because I expressed quite a bit of concern, he agreed to go and double check this for me, upon his return he assured me that I could continue to work under the implied status...

After all of this I came back and started reading through the forum here and found a number of conflicting replies, all of which have left me very confused.

From the OWP pilot program thread:

JamesDavid, no reason to argue , you are right, it is boring. The four months processing times are for new applications, let's hope you get yours anytime soon and you can change employers and everybody will know that applying to change comditions of your stay allows you to comtinue working under the same comditions of your previous work permir as you did NOT request an extension of your IEC wp BUT an open work permit.

Just in case anyone was wondering, according to the multiple agents I have spoken to at CIC, the IEC program counts as eligible for Implied Status under this new pilot program.

I was skeptical because in August 2014 I sent an IMM5710E online after having sent off my inland spousal visa, and it was promptly refused. I was rejected on the grounds that 'IEC UK does not qualify as a work permit eligible for extension or implied status', it seems that they've now changed their minds (wish I could get my $155 back).

I've been worried that, since I only sent my IMM5710E and payment yesterday, and my current IEC visa expires February 1st, that I wouldn't have time to receive the OWP, but apparently this doesn't matter given implied status.

It seems strange to me that you receive no documentation at all for Implied Status, it's causing some concern from my employer since I told them that I was going to have to quit Feb 1st and now all of a sudden I am saying something else and I have no government issued documentation to support my legal status to work here.

Has anyone been through this before and managed to get documentation to prove their implied status to their employer?

Note that the CIC call centre agents are very well known for giving inaccurate information when it comes to IEC visa and implied status. I would not trust anything they say on the topic.

Go by the response you got from the actual visa officer that initially rejected your work permit extension, and assume IEC still does not qualify you for implied status. To be safe, you should stop working when your IEC visa expires, and wait until you get OWP under new pilot program before you begin working again.

They haven't changed their minds. Your first permit was rightly refused because you sent it online and separately from your inland app; CIC processed it immediately as a work permit extension instead of holding it for processing as an OWP attached to an inland PR app. Had you sent a paper app with a note explaining that you'd submitted an inland PR app and the OWP was to be processed after AIP, it wouldn't have been refused. They would have held it and processed it after AIP (or processed it now with the pilot program).

Though submitting the OWP app prior to your IEC expiring will give you Implied Status allowing you to stay in Canada, you cannot continue working when your IEC expires and before you receive the OWP. CIC does not provide proof of Implied Status.

As long as you submit PR application and OWP same time and CIC received the applications before Feb 7, you would be on "implied status" as a work visa until OWP is granted. However the "implied status" does not grant you "implied status" to keep working if you have IEC visa. If you have IEC, you only have "implied status" as a visitor until OWP is approved. Remember the "implied status" only applies to period after your visa expires.

If you have PGWP visa, technically you are not suppose to continue working under "implied status" as it is not extendable. However PGWP is linked to OWP through CEC process. Not through PR spousal sponsorship not the same process. So I reserve my judgement on whether PGWP also get "implied status" to work until otherwise proven.

As you can see there's a variety of opinions and information going around the forum about this, my main problem is that I would like to get a definitive yes/no from some official instance.

I understand that some people say, well this is a non-extendable visa, and so you cannot get implied status. What confuses me about this is that people then (sometimes) go on to say that you could get implied visitor status under this program. This just makes no sense to me at all, as it seems to me that implied visitor status would also be considered an extension (if anything under a different category since you would go from TFW to visitor)...

 

[renoreaper]

One thing that I have been considering is just driving to the border at Niagara falls and attempting to ask an officer there, but I'm afraid they also might not be able to answer this, or that driving there just for that would be frowned upon...

Another source I consulted yesterday was the (to-be-updated) version of the Foreign worker Manual, here are some snippets that I thought relate to the issue:
imgur.com/a/L3VWr (the second snippet is from operational bulletin 11, section 24 referenced in the first snippet. The last snippet is the CICNews article I mentioned in my previous post).


Anyhow, in summary I am debating whether or not I should stop working in 2 weeks from now, and if I need to flagpole/apply for a visitor visa at that time as well. Obviously I'd rather continue working
as I really like my current employer and there may be some pretty nice opportunities coming up. But on the other hand I clearly don't want to endanger my PR/OWP for this either...

Any insights, suggestions or ideas on this subject would be most welcome! My apologies for the very long post(s), and thank you in advance if you take the time and effort to read it (and even more so if you post a reply!)

 

[RajaJi]

It is certain that you can not renew or extend your IEC Work Permit. This information is posted on CIC website. A link to the page is noted below.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=942&t=25

IMO, the sponsorship application your girlfriend has mailed, gives you an implied status to stay in Canada but it does not allow you continue working. Forum members, who had been in similar situation as you, may be able to guide you better.

 

[RajaJi]

Information on the page at below noted link has more information which may be helpful:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5553ETOC.asp

An extract from the information on the page at above noted link:

Workers are a class of temporary resident who are legally authorized to enter Canada temporarily to work. They are subject to various conditions.

This application guide is for temporary residents who are already in Canada and wish to:

extend their stay as a worker;

change conditions of their stay as a worker;

change their class to include permission to work; or

correct problems in their status.

If you are currently working in Canada and want to change conditions on your work permit (e.g. change length, employer or occupation), you must apply and obtain a new work permit. You should apply before making the change. For any permit, you should always apply at least 30 days before your status expires.

Normally, a work permit must be applied for prior to coming to Canada. Only in a few special circumstances presented in this guide can an initial work permit be applied for within Canada:

If you are a temporary resident, such as a student, who wishes to work, you must apply for and obtain a work permit before actually starting to work.

If you are applying for another work permit, you must remain in Canada and meet the conditions of your original work permit.

If you are applying for an extension before your work permit expires, you can keep working under the same condition of the current work permit until CIC makes a decision on your application.

If your work permit expires after you have submitted your application for an extension but before you receive a decision in your application, you can stay in Canada under implied status, meaning you will be considered in status until a decision is given to you.

Reading that information, I have come to understand that a worker can continue working if an application for extension of work permit has been submitted before the expiration of current work permit.

IEC work permits can not be extended. So, in your case, after the expiry of your IEC work permit, you will have no work authorization.

 

[renoreaper]

Reading that information, I have come to understand that a worker can continue working if an application for extension of work permit has been submitted before the expiration of current work permit.

IEC work permits can not be extended. So, in your case, after the expiry of your IEC work permit, you will have no work authorization.

This makes sense looking at the page you linked, however following that rule you would not be able to get implied status from including an OWP with a PR application at all, since you are applying for a new work permit instead of extending the old one in that case.

 

[Jamarns]

Hi Renoreaper,

I am in a similar situation to yours, from what I've come to understand the IEC work permit is not able to be extended, in fact if you look at your work permit it says right on there that it can not be extended. So you cannot gain implied status as a worker, because you cannot apply for that permit to be extended, you're applying for a whole new permit.

I have spent a lot of time lurking through various forums researching the subject, and there are cases of people being denied entry at the border for working under "implied status" on an IEC. Considering that you should now in theory be able to obtain a work permit in four months through the new pilot program I would say it's a safer bet to not take the risk of working and hang tight for four months.

 

[RajaJi]

This makes sense looking at the page you linked, however following that rule you would not be able to get implied status from including an OWP with a PR application at all, since you are applying for a new work permit instead of extending the old one in that case.

That seems to be a correct understanding. But as with the new Pilot Program you were in status when you submitted your OWP application along with PR application. That should give you an Implied Status to remain (but not work) in Canada. If that does not give you an Implied Status then I think you also need to submit an application to change the conditions of your stay (if your IEC permit is still valid).

 

[RajaJi]

Additional Information:
Source: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=474&t=4

...
If your work permit expires after you have submitted your application for an extension but before you receive a decision on your application, [size=10pt]you can stay [/size]in Canada under what is called implied status. That means the law implies you are a temporary resident. That status lasts until Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) decides on your new permit application. However, you must respect the following requirements:

If you applied for another work permit:

◦You must stay in Canada and meet the conditions of your original work permit. If you applied for a work permit extension before your work permit expired, you can keep working under the same conditions as your existing permit until CIC decides on your application, EVEN IF you have applied to extend your stay under another category of temporary resident.

If you applied for a different kind of permit:
◦You cannot do any of the activities allowed by the original work permit. For example, you may have come to Canada as a worker and then applied for a study permit. If so, you must stop working once your work permit expires. After that, you cannot work or study until you get a new permit.

•If you have applied to extend your work permit and plan on traveling outside Canada while your application is in process, you can leave Canada and come back. However, one of three things will happen when you return to Canada:

◦You may be allowed to come back to Canada as a visitor, if Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) has not yet decided to extend your work permit. If this is the case, you cannot work until you get your work permit extension. The officer at the port of entry may ask you to prove you have enough money to support yourself in Canada.

◦You may be allowed to come back to Canada as a worker, if the officer at the port of entry finds out that CIC extended your work permit while you were away.

◦You may be asked to apply for a new work permit at the port of entry.

...

 

[RajaJi]

Additional Information:
Source: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=188&t=17

I have applied for a new work permit. Can I stay in Canada if my work permit expires?

Yes. You can stay in Canada, and may be able to keep working, under what's called implied status. That means the law implies you are a temporary resident. The implied status lasts until Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) decides on your new permit application. However, you must respect the following requirements:


If you applied for another work permit

•You must stay in Canada and meet the conditions of your original work permit. If you applied for a work permit extension before your work permit expired, you can keep working under the same conditions as your existing permit until CIC decides on your application UNLESS you have applied to extend your stay under another category.

If you applied for a different kind of permit

•You cannot do any of the activities allowed by the original work permit. For example, you may have come to Canada as a worker and then applied for a study permit. If so, you must stop working once your work permit expires. After that, you cannot work or study until you get a new permit.

---


Information in this post and the information in the post before, both are from CIC website. CIC seems to have two different answers for same question. Notice the UNLESS in this post and EVEN IF in the earlier post.

 

[renoreaper]

Technically speaking the work permit type granted under the IEC program is an open work permit as well though (I know it cannot be extended but it says type "open" on the actual permit).

The change of category was also something that worried me, so the last time I called the CIC call centre I brought it up to the agent (I know they are not always considered as a reliable resource here),
but the way he explained it was that by a different category they meant going from f.ex. category worker to category student (not worker to worker, this seems to be in line with the example I saw on the CIC website). Going back to your earlier post:

If you applied for a different kind of permit:
◦You cannot do any of the activities allowed by the original work permit. For example, you may have come to Canada as a worker and then applied for a study permit. If so, you must stop working once your work permit expires. After that, you cannot work or study until you get a new permit.

Thanks so much for all your feedback and replies RajaJi!

I know someone who's wife works for immigration (I think as a border officer), so I'm going to ask her tolook into this for me as well, and I will definitely post my findings here. Hopefully this can be of help to people in a similar situation in the future.

 

[Rob_TO]

Technically speaking the work permit type granted under the IEC program is an open work permit as well though (I know it cannot be extended but it says type "open" on the actual permit).

The change of category was also something that worried me, so the last time I called the CIC call centre I brought it up to the agent (I know they are not always considered as a reliable resource here),
but the way he explained it was that by a different category they meant going from f.ex. category worker to category student (not worker to worker, this seems to be in line with the example I saw on the CIC website). Going back to your earlier post:
Thanks so much for all your feedback and replies RajaJi!

I know someone who's wife works for immigration (I think as a border officer), so I'm going to ask her tolook into this for me as well, and I will definitely post my findings here. Hopefully this can be of help to people in a similar situation in the future.

Call centre agents are generally useless on this subject. And no matter what anyone tells you on the matter, if you are ever caught working on an expired IEC no matter if you think you have "implied" status or not... the only one that will face the consequences is you. It doesn't matter whatsoever what a call centre agent, lawyer, or anyone else, has told you.

Up to now we've seen several cases here of people being caught working on expired IECs and having their PR app delayed significantly. And as was mentioned above other message boards show CBSA often catches people and confirms it's not legal to work on expired IEC under implied status, and this has even been on an episode of Border Security. Another long post on this topic on this site, has correspondence from a lawyer to CIC also confirming there is no implied status for IEC and that CIC would look into changing the confusing wording on their website to make this easier to understand (though I doubt they do this).

Reality is not many people are caught, as CIC chooses not to investigate this that much, or they remain ignorant of it as they don't talk so much with the SIN or CRA departments that would be more aware of this. But if you do conclude for yourself that it's fine to work on expired IEC under implied status, just be prepared to face the consequences if you are caught, as other people have been.

 

[RajaJi]

Call centre agents are generally useless on this subject. And no matter what anyone tells you on the matter, if you are ever caught working on an expired IEC no matter if you think you have "implied" status or not... the only one that will face the consequences is you. It doesn't matter whatsoever what a call centre agent, lawyer, or anyone else, has told you.

Up to now we've seen several cases here of people being caught working on expired IECs and having their PR app delayed significantly. And as was mentioned above other message boards show CBSA often catches people and confirms it's not legal to work on expired IEC under implied status, and this has even been on an episode of Border Security. Another long post on this topic on this site, has correspondence from a lawyer to CIC also confirming there is no implied status for IEC and that CIC would look into changing the confusing wording on their website to make this easier to understand (though I doubt they do this).

Reality is not many people are caught, as CIC chooses not to investigate this that much, or they remain ignorant of it as they don't talk so much with the SIN or CRA departments that would be more aware of this. But if you do conclude for yourself that it's fine to work on expired IEC under implied status, just be prepared to face the consequences if you are caught, as other people have been.

Rob_TO, I agree with you that there is no authorization to continue working under implied status on expired IEC's.

 

[renoreaper]

Call centre agents are generally useless on this subject.

It's really sad that this appears to be the case...

the only one that will face the consequences is you. It doesn't matter whatsoever what a call centre agent, lawyer, or anyone else, has told you.

I understand that, and if I cannot get confirmation from CIC/CBSA before my work permit expires I believe I will stop working to not run the risk (I should be getting an OWP under the pilot program before the end of April, if they keep their "within 4 months of receiving the application"-promise). However I want to do everything I can to try and get a definitive answer on a topic for which very little official, accessible information seems to exist.

Up to now we've seen several cases here of people being caught working on expired IECs and having their PR app delayed significantly. And as was mentioned above other message boards show CBSA often catches people and confirms it's not legal to work on expired IEC under implied status, and this has even been on an episode of Border Security. Another long post on this topic on this site, has correspondence from a lawyer to CIC also confirming there is no implied status for IEC and that CIC would look into changing the confusing wording on their website to make this easier to understand (though I doubt they do this).

I did not come across this topic/post yet so a link would be greatly appreciated. I also wonder if this no-implied status for IEC applies to all scenario's of work permit applications (to me it would make sense while you're waiting for an LMO or a second IEC participation to not get implied status, as you could "game" the system to get additional experience like this). In any case I just hope to get some form of official correspondence/confirmation on this topic.

If IEC under no circumstances grants an implied status then I assume I should apply for visitor status (for which I would already be too late, given that my permit expires end of February), could flag poling offer a solution for me to get visitor status? (I'm belgian and on the CIC site it says I do not need a visa to visit Canada, I assume this means I could just flagpole to bridge the few months between me receiving an open work permit?).

Reality is not many people are caught, as CIC chooses not to investigate this that much, or they remain ignorant of it as they don't talk so much with the SIN or CRA departments that would be more aware of this. But if you do conclude for yourself that it's fine to work on expired IEC under implied status, just be prepared to face the consequences if you are caught, as other people have been.

As much as I like my current job, if it really comes to it I wouldn't want to risk my OWP/PR application for (hopefully) 2 months of work.

Thanks for providing your insights in this matter, if you happen to have any links to relevant posts/topics or any ideas regarding official CIC resources that I could consult or contact please post them here .

 

[renoreaper]

Also, would it be possible to get a definitive answer on this from a Canadian border security agent on this by driving to a border crossing and asking about it, or is this something that is "not done"?

 

[Rob_TO]

I understand that, and if I cannot get confirmation from CIC/CBSA before my work permit expires I believe I will stop working to not run the risk (I should be getting an OWP under the pilot program before the end of April, if they keep their "within 4 months of receiving the application"-promise). However I want to do everything I can to try and get a definitive answer on a topic for which very little official, accessible information seems to exist.

Again the problem is that someone giving you a "definitive" answer may still be wrong (especially the CIC call centre). Best person to ask this question to would be a visa officer that actually processes PR apps, bit of course it's not possible to ask them.

Also I wouldn't trust the "4 months" time completely, until you actually start seeing people that submitted PR apps in January actually getting their OWPs by May.

I did not come across this topic/post yet so a link would be greatly appreciated.

Here's a good one: http://britishexpats.com/forum/immigration-citizenship-canada-33/implied-status-iec-815262/
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11270585#post11270585

And here's one of the big threads from this site I mentioned. There's also some more if you do a search: http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/iec-visa-to-owp-implied-status-pr-application-help-t153162.0.html

Note the correspondence from CIC:
Participants in international youth exchange programs (e.g., Student Work Abroad Program (SWAP), International Experience Canada (IEC) or Working Holiday Program (WHP)) do not benefit from implied status, unless extending a work permit not initially issued for the time limit authorized by the program.

And this one, of someone getting caught: http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/-t163087.0.html

If IEC under no circumstances grants an implied status then I assume I should apply for visitor status (for which I would already be too late, given that my permit expires end of February), could flag poling offer a solution for me to get visitor status? (I'm belgian and on the CIC site it says I do not need a visa to visit Canada, I assume this means I could just flagpole to bridge the few months between me receiving an open work permit?).

As long as you submit an OWP along with inland app, you have implied visitor status so you have valid status in Canada... just not status to work.

On a different note, if you did an OUTLAND application it would go through Paris visa office. I believe they are very quick (check the Paris thread) and you could have your whole PR completed in a fraction of the 2+ years time it will take you sitting around waiting around for inland processing. If you did apply outland, you would then need to extend your visitor status here in order to stay (which should be pretty easy).

Also, would it be possible to get a definitive answer on this from a Canadian border security agent on this by driving to a border crossing and asking about it, or is this something that is "not done"?

An experienced CBSA officer should know about this. Perhaps an inexperienced one won't know. Again that's the problem though, there is no "definitive" answer as you are just getting someone's opinion based on their interpretation of the rules. CIC should really just have a manual dedicated to implied status and list everything it does and doesn't cover... but until they do that there won't be any definitive answer you can trust.

The correspondence about international youth exchange programs is pretty definitive evidence to me, but even with that people still continue to think working on expired IEC is ok, so I guess it's not definitive enough.