I left Canada as a minor out of my will and I do not meet the residency obligation

[armoured]

hello all, I appreciate all the help and comments I have received. I have spoken to my lawyer and saw that my case is a complete dead end and it has an extremely low chance. I accept all responsibility and consequences and will go ahead and accept reality. Now that I am moving forward on I won’t pursue my return to Canada but instead file a legal case against my mother for fraud and negligence as I was merely trafficked as a minor. What are the routes I can take ?

Can I ask on what basis he said it seemed to be a dead end? Was it/is it the issue of passport, or something else?

And even if your lawyer says it is low possibility, that is not zero. It's your choice to decide, and if you wish to apply yourself (doing the best you can), you can take the chance. Personally I think the chance is notably different from zero - I don't wish to put a number on it, but I see no harm in trying.

The alternative would be to leave it and attempt to potentially cross the Canada-US border in future, but I put chances of that as quite low (getting US visa on its own would be a challenge).

 

[scylla]

Can I ask on what basis he said it seemed to be a dead end? Was it/is it the issue of passport, or something else?

And even if your lawyer says it is low possibility, that is not zero. It's your choice to decide, and if you wish to apply yourself (doing the best you can), you can take the chance. Personally I think the chance is notably different from zero - I don't wish to put a number on it, but I see no harm in trying.

The alternative would be to leave it and attempt to potentially cross the Canada-US border in future, but I put chances of that as quite low (getting US visa on its own would be a challenge).

I'm guessing it's the inability to obtain a valid passport and the fact the OP is Somalian. As someone else pointed out, Somali passports are a problem. That puts everything else at a standstill.

Passport (or RTD) is required to apply for a PRTD and to board a plane with a PRTD.

Crossing the Canada-US border requires a passport (or RTD) too. Agreed the chances of getting a US visa would be low. But the first barrier would be OP's inability to get a passport. Can't apply for the US visa without a valid passport (or RTD).

Given the passport is so problematic, I would approach the Embassy about an RTD. I've never seen a post here where an RTD was granted under these circumstances (i.e. where someone is outside of Canada and not meeting RO by a long shot), but seems worth a shot at this point. Worst case scenario they say no. I have no idea if they would accept H&C reasons for an RTD granted outside of Canada, but it seems there's nothing to lose at this point. Unless, of course, the lawyer knows this simply isn't possible.

 

[armoured]

I'm guessing it's the inability to obtain a valid passport and the fact the OP is Somalian. As someone else pointed out, Somali passports are a problem. That puts everything else at a standstill

That's why I'm curious what the lawyer said, yes.

A question: does a refugee travel document issued by Canada (and still valid) give the bearer the right to board a plane to Canada without the PR card/prtd? Or PR card or somethign else required?

Passport (or RTD) is required to apply for a PRTD and to board a plane with a PRTD.
...
Given the passport is so problematic, I would approach the Embassy about an RTD. I've never seen a post here where an RTD was granted under these circumstances (i.e. where someone is outside of Canada and not meeting RO by a long shot), but seems worth a shot at this point. Worst case scenario they say no. I have no idea if they would accept H&C reasons for an RTD granted outside of Canada, but it seems there's nothing to lose at this point. Unless, of course, the lawyer knows this simply isn't possible.

I more or less agree entirely, that there is not much to lose in this case by trying. Procedures - how to proceed, in what order, etc - is a question, and I think most of us can only make educated guesses.

If the applicant thinks/thought the lawyer was good, I'd ask the following:
-which would be the 'best' given the circumstances, understanding that the chances may be 'low' -

i) apply for PRTD (obviously H&C with all explanations, etc) together with application for a new RTD?
ii) apply for PRTD first, with explanation that RTD or other document that would provide ability to board a plane (single-use travel document)?
iii) apply for RTD (or similar) without the PRTD?

Personally I don't see iii as working if the RTD cannot be used without a PR card or PRTD.

I don't know but the case is unusual.

I also wouldn't rule out contacting Member of Parliament. Also a long shot but don't see any reason not to try, either. Also potentially immigrant/refugee assistance groups in Canada.

Given the circumstances, I also would not rule out speaking to another legal firm, as this is not a subject where any one legal firm can know all the answers.

Certainly hope the applicant won't just give up at this point but consider, even though it may be realistic to accept it's a long shot.

Personally I think the path of pursuing the mother for whatever doesn't provide much utility, but completely out of my area of knowledge.

 

[scylla]

That's why I'm curious what the lawyer said, yes.

A question: does a refugee travel document issued by Canada (and still valid) give the bearer the right to board a plane to Canada without the PR card/prtd? Or PR card or somethign else required?



I more or less agree entirely, that there is not much to lose in this case by trying. Procedures - how to proceed, in what order, etc - is a question, and I think most of us can only make educated guesses.

If the applicant thinks/thought the lawyer was good, I'd ask the following:
-which would be the 'best' given the circumstances, understanding that the chances may be 'low' -

i) apply for PRTD (obviously H&C with all explanations, etc) together with application for a new RTD?
ii) apply for PRTD first, with explanation that RTD or other document that would provide ability to board a plane (single-use travel document)?
iii) apply for RTD (or similar) without the PRTD?

Personally I don't see iii as working if the RTD cannot be used without a PR card or PRTD.

I don't know but the case is unusual.

I also wouldn't rule out contacting Member of Parliament. Also a long shot but don't see any reason not to try, either. Also potentially immigrant/refugee assistance groups in Canada.

Given the circumstances, I also would not rule out speaking to another legal firm, as this is not a subject where any one legal firm can know all the answers.

Certainly hope the applicant won't just give up at this point but consider, even though it may be realistic to accept it's a long shot.

Personally I think the path of pursuing the mother for whatever doesn't provide much utility, but completely out of my area of knowledge.

RTD bascially acts in place of the passport. So yes, RTD would allow the OP to board a plane. IMO securing either a valid passport or RTD is tablestakes for this working out - and I'm not even sure about the passport given Canada's published guidance on Somali passports.

Of course this is just my guess. This is a very complex situation.

However the OP certainly won't be able to board a plane with a PRTD alone. That is certain.

 

[armoured]

RTD bascially acts in place of the passport. So yes, RTD would allow the OP to board a plane. IMO securing either a valid passport or RTD is tablestakes for this working out - and I'm not even sure about the passport given Canada's published guidance on Somali passports.

Of course this is just my guess. This is a very complex situation.

However the OP certainly won't be able to board a plane with a PRTD alone. That is certain.

So a few points:
-would definitely NOT recommend getting Somali passport, as that would basically annul any refugee-derived status (at least as far as Canada goes).
-cool if RTD would allow OP to board a plane without the PRTD. If being out of Canada for so long doesn't render one ineligible, then would make sense to apply for that.
-I have a slightly different take on the PRTD app - I don't believe it would be 'tablestakes' for a PRTD application to be evaluated - but I do not know. I believe there is a chance that a PRTD could be evaluated, accepted (in principle) and then kicked to (some equivalent of) consular dept to assist in giving one-way travel docs. In other words, that the 'conditionality' could be reversed - that they could require the PRTD to be evaluated in order to consider issuing the RTD (or other eg one-time travel document).

But only a guess that this could be a possiiblity. That's why I'd rather hoped the suggestion from the lawyer could address the process and less on basis of 'probability of success'; indeed I rather think that's the key part of the lawyer's role, to suggest the best or recommended route if one has no other choice.

 

[Em W]

So a few points:
-would definitely NOT recommend getting Somali passport, as that would basically annul any refugee-derived status (at least as far as Canada goes).
-cool if RTD would allow OP to board a plane without the PRTD. If being out of Canada for so long doesn't render one ineligible, then would make sense to apply for that.
-I have a slightly different take on the PRTD app - I don't believe it would be 'tablestakes' for a PRTD application to be evaluated - but I do not know. I believe there is a chance that a PRTD could be evaluated, accepted (in principle) and then kicked to (some equivalent of) consular dept to assist in giving one-way travel docs. In other words, that the 'conditionality' could be reversed - that they could require the PRTD to be evaluated in order to consider issuing the RTD (or other eg one-time travel document).

But only a guess that this could be a possiiblity. That's why I'd rather hoped the suggestion from the lawyer could address the process and less on basis of 'probability of success'; indeed I rather think that's the key part of the lawyer's role, to suggest the best or recommended route if one has no other choice.

@armoured
@scylla

I think you guys are missing something here. A Canadian RTD or a Canadian Refugee Travel Document is a travel document issued by Canada to protected persons in Canada. You need to be present in Canada to obtain a Canadian RTD. You need to supply a PR card or a Notice of Decision from the IRB when applying for the Canadian RTD to prove that you are a person in need of one. You also have to surrender any valid travel documents or passports in your possession and explain why an RTD is needed.

• Supplying a Notice of Decision: The Canadian RTD will be issued with a validity of 2 years
• Supplying a PR card: The Canadian RTD will be issued with a validity of 5 years

A question: does a refugee travel document issued by Canada (and still valid) give the bearer the right to board a plane to Canada without the PR card/prtd? Or PR card or somethign else required?

You need to have official proof of PR (PR card/PRTD) alongside the blue Canadian RTD. Check here. Link for the source. An RTD alone is not enough for commercial transporters. However, if you are a protected person and you don't have a PR card, you may board a plane by stating that you are a "Protected Person" not disclosing the fact that you are a Permanent Resident. In-Canada Protected Persons can apply for PR afterwards under the Protected Persons class. One can hypothetically present a Notice of Decision from the IRB to the airlines accompanied by a Canadian RTD claiming they are only Protected Persons and then when they land, they will present their CoPR to the CBSA instead and they will be admitted. Permanent Residents have the right of entry. See here, here, and here.


Again, a Canadian RTD is strictly issued inside Canada. If you want an outside RTD issued by Canada, his only option is to obtain a Single Journey Travel Document. Click to see Sample. This is different from the blue Canadian RTD shown above.

The Single Journey Travel Document is not a document you can apply for. You need to have an immigration purpose whether temporary or permanent. In this case, a PRTD application needs to be approved in order to ask for an SJTD. It is safe to assume that the officer will issue an SJTD if they accept reviewing the PRTD application because the officer would know initially that the applicant has no passport.

The applicant would need to include an H&C request in the PRTD application to waive the passport requirement. If the processing is commenced, it is safe to assume that the officer accepted the fact that the applicant has no passport and this would be issued an SJTD. I would also add that it would have to be mentioned in the PRTD submission asking for an SJTD.

 

[scylla]

@armoured
@scylla

I think you guys are missing something here. A Canadian RTD or a Canadian Refugee Travel Document is a travel document issued by Canada to protected persons in Canada. You need to be present in Canada to obtain a Canadian RTD. You need to supply a PR card or a Notice of Decision from the IRB when applying for the Canadian RTD to prove that you are a person in need of one. You also have to surrender any valid travel documents or passports in your possession and explain why an RTD is needed.

• Supplying a Notice of Decision: The Canadian RTD will be issued with a validity of 2 years
• Supplying a PR card: The Canadian RTD will be issued with a validity of 5 years

Yes, you do. Check here. An RTD alone is not enough for commercial transporters. However, if you are a protected person and you don't have a PR card, you may board a plane by stating that you are a "Protected Person" not disclosing the fact that you are a Permanent Resident. In-Canada Protected Persons can apply for PR afterwards under the Protected Persons class. One can hypothetically present a Notice of Decision from the IRB to the airlines accompanied by a Canadian RTD claiming they are only Protected Persons and then when they land, they will present their CoPR to the CBSA instead and they will be admitted. Permanent Residents have the right of entry. See here, here, and here.


Again, a Canadian RTD is strictly issued inside Canada. If you want an outside RTD issued by Canada, his only option is to obtain a Single Journey Travel Document. This is different from the blue Canadian RTD.

The Single Journey Travel Document is not a document you can apply for. You need to have an immigration purpose whether temporary or permanent. In this case, a PRTD application needs to be approved in order to ask for an SJTD. It is safe to assume that the officer will issue an SJTD if they accept reviewing the PRTD application because the officer would know initially that the applicant has no passport.

The applicant would need to include an H&C request in the PRTD application to waive the passport requirement. If the processing is commenced, it is safe to assume that the officer accepted the fact that the applicant has no passport and this would be issued an SJTD. I would also add that it would have to mentioned in the PRTD submission asking for an SJTD.

I'm well aware of the RTD rules but felt this might be the only option despite that.

I've only see the SJTD issued to individuals who are outside of Canada, have been accepted as a PR of Canada through a refugee program, and are traveling to Canada for the first time to land and become PRs. I didn't realize IRCC would be willing to issue them in other circumstances. If that's the case, then this offers hope.

 

[armoured]

The Single Journey Travel Document is not a document you can apply for. You need to have an immigration purpose whether temporary or permanent. In this case, a PRTD application needs to be approved in order to ask for an SJTD. It is safe to assume that the officer will issue an SJTD if they accept reviewing the PRTD application because the officer would know initially that the applicant has no passport.

The applicant would need to include an H&C request in the PRTD application to waive the passport requirement. If the processing is commenced, it is safe to assume that the officer accepted the fact that the applicant has no passport and this would be issued an SJTD. I would also add that it would have to mentioned in the PRTD submission asking for an SJTD.

Thank you, this is basically what I've been suggesting. I don't know much about the RTD, apart from what's been written here. But as I said, I've been going on (somewhat informed) guesses.

 

[Em W]

I'm well aware of the RTD rules but felt this might be the only option despite that.

I've only see the SJTD issued to individuals who are outside of Canada, have been accepted as a PR of Canada through a refugee program, and are traveling to Canada for the first time to land and become PRs. I didn't realize IRCC would be willing to issue them in other circumstances. If that's the case, then this offers hope.

Correct. It is mostly issued to refugees abroad through PSR (Private Sponsorship of Refugees) and other Refugee classes. I would say it is rarely issued in other situations. In this case, one can only try.

 

[Moah4901]

Again everybody, thank you for all the responses and the thoughtful comments I’m receiving to helping me in this case of mine. I’m looking for another lawyer because the one my friends have contacted isn’t giving us the hope we deserve. I’m giving it another shot because the community I know in Canada believe in me and in my case to go through this situation. If there is any way or a guide to see a good lawyer with experience of residency obligation how can I find such firm to guide me?

 

[Ponga]

Again everybody, thank you for all the responses and the thoughtful comments I’m receiving to helping me in this case of mine. I’m looking for another lawyer because the one my friends have contacted isn’t giving us the hope we deserve. I’m giving it another shot because the community I know in Canada believe in me and in my case to go through this situation. If there is any way or a guide to see a good lawyer with experience of residency obligation how can I find such firm to guide me?

Try the law firm that generously provides these forums. Look for their contact info at the top of the main page.

Good luck!

 

[canuck78]

Again everybody, thank you for all the responses and the thoughtful comments I’m receiving to helping me in this case of mine. I’m looking for another lawyer because the one my friends have contacted isn’t giving us the hope we deserve. I’m giving it another shot because the community I know in Canada believe in me and in my case to go through this situation. If there is any way or a guide to see a good lawyer with experience of residency obligation how can I find such firm to guide me?

The big issue is funds. There are good immigration lawyers but they will also need to be paid and funds seem to be an issue. Would suggest reaching out to community groups that work with protected people in Canada or the Somali population in Canada. They might have a lawyer on retainer or a lawyer who does pro bono work for them:

 

[Em W]

I just realized that the PRTD is an actual counterfoil (visa sticker). This is why the PRTD requires a valid travel document. So in theory, if you did not supply a travel document and asked for an H&C to waive that requirement, you can in theory ask for an SJTD instead and if approved, instead of affixing the PRTD visa sticker on a passport, they will affix it on a SJTD. Which means a single document will serve as both the passport and the visa.

This sounds like a doable plan. Although the risk of refusal is high if your H&C case is not strong enough. The SJTD is just procedural. The main issue is, how strong is your PRTD H&C claims? If you end up applying and it gets refused, then you lose the PR status.

 

[scylla]

I just realized that the PRTD is an actual counterfoil (visa sticker). This is why the PRTD requires a valid travel document.

Yep, exactly. This is why I thought the PRTD wouldn't be doable without a valid passport (or something like an SJTD). They need to attach the PRTD to something that is a travel document that itself is valid.

I'll be interested to hear if the OP consults with a different lawyer and if so what that lawyer says.

Feels like a bit of chicken and egg. Probably harder to make the case for the SJTD without the PRTD but can't get the PRTD without a SJTD. Way beyond my scope of knowledge / understanding.

 

[Moah4901]

Hello all, there’s very good news. I did some good networking and found a guy who’s willing to connect me to someone who can give me a valid passport and be a citizen of Djibouti. There are two issues I see and only one I have no issue with. The cost to get a djibouti passport is 12,000$, the other issue is that it will take me one year from now to be fully processed. The issue with that is by then I’d have been 7 years out of the country and will be 23 years of age. My reason to why I was out of Canada for so long is because I’m entirely doing this on my own. From lawyer fees to anything else to return to Canada. My only worry is the shame I have to explain to CBSA officers for my disappearance. I have intention to relocate and stay in Canada, it was never my choice to stay out of Canada and be in a country I don’t speak the language and lack in culture wise and doesn’t support me in any way.