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I don't know what else to do ...

RainDroplet

Newbie
Sep 1, 2009
3
0
I have always been proud of my country.

Canada is a beautiful land blessed with astounding natural beauty.

We as a country pride ourselves on being 'multicultural', and yet recently I have tasted the bitterness of discrimination.

I have been dating a wonderful guy from Russia for over a year now. He has graduated College and now works full-time on a work permit. He adores this country.

He has not seen his parents in over two years.

He cannot return to Russia - boys over 18 and up to 27 years of age are required to join the army for a year, something which he does not wish to do.

Both parents own the same grocery store in Russia; both have the profits and the means to travel to Canada. Both have relatives who they cannot leave behind in Russia. They have listed their relatives. They created a binder full of financial information and organized it.

However, now for the second time, a visa has been denied to them. The first time, they provided a reason, checking-off that the officer does not believe that my boyfriend has the money to support them.

We live very close to many tourists destinations. There are plenty of wonderful sights and sounds for them to experience.

Yet in order to apply for a Visitor Visa, one must satisfy an officer that they do intend to leave. One must provide proper documentation, carry an invitation from a Canadian citizen, and provide proof that they do not intend to remain in Canada.

On the first submission, it was checked off on the letter that the officer did not believe the host (my boyfriend) or the parents provided enough financial information. To resolve this issue, they quickly gathered as much supporting documentation as was possible, and submitted it. This time, rather than my boyfriend sending out an invitation, my own Canadian-born parents sent them an invitation.

On the second decline, the note stated no reason, except that they did not believe they would leave. They never requested an inverview, they never bothered to confirm anything with the invitors, they just simply declined.

I am disgusted that firstly, visitors have to prove their innocence - under the Charter Of Rights and Freedoms,one is innocent until proven guilty, not vice versa. However, this does not hold true when it comes to travellors.

I don't know what other options we have left now. It seems nearly helpless. His parents do not have a criminal record. They purchased their "there-and-back" ticket which they now have to cancel. They are in good health and purchased over-sea health coverage. They went and got professional advice on how to properly submit the visa. They listed all their relatives. They paid money for this lousy application. (Figures, Canada has no problem taking money from them.) They have no intention of remaining here.

I know a lot of people probably feel this way, but I don't believe their was any good reason for this rejection - none at all. I'm angry. I'm dissapointed. What else can be done? Are there any other possible options? We submitted everything we had. We tried everything.
 

frolic

Hero Member
Jul 21, 2008
218
5
I have been in a similar situation as you.

My gf at the time from Russia was denied a Temp visa because they thought she would not return. Even though she had family, a son, and a job of many years at home to return to. Of course it SUCKS and hurts and is extremely frustrating to have your life affected by a seemingly arbitrary decision.

First...don't buy plane tickets before. I learned that the hard way too.

Second...make alternative plans...you can all meet in a third country. Russians can go to many other countries without a visa and you can visit there. No reason for him to never see them because of borders. Turkey, Egypt, Morocco, Cuba...etc. If they have never travelled outside Russia to show a good travel history this can also help later too.

Third...you can apply again. Don't be naive in assuming your papers are good. Because of the environment in Russia, and people trying to get to Canada and stay, the visa requirements are there. Proving you have enough to stay in Canada should be easy. Proving you will return is hard. Identify property and their business and any other reason they HAVE to return. Point them out specifically. Put details. If you just say..."We want to visit our son...and have to return because we run our business." that is too light on details. Put when and where you want to visit. Include details of who they would meet during the visit. Maybe you want the parents to meet. You want to spend Christmas together. Etc etc. Any other details that show the need to return...they have a business, there will be more important seasons for that business, end of year paperwork, busy times, etc. They can visit, for a short time, but maybe have to return by the December busy season...etc. Put more MEAT into the application. If they have travelled before, mention that to show they are only interested in the visit...not to stay and have done this before already.

Fourth...I hear that a Russian male who has lived outside Russia for more than 6 months isn't eligible for the draft anymore. Don't take my word on that...find out more about that law before you try this. Of course he has to be able to prove that he is not living there. Something about unregistering there, and then registering with the consulate here. I know there are legal and property rights attached to the registering so be careful of that of course.

Good luck. Just trying to help and let you know we all feel the same way...stuck in the system.

As some encouragement...once we were married and my wife had traveled some with me on our honeymoon, she was able to visit here while our perm visa was being processed.
 

Suin

VIP Member
Sep 14, 2008
4,037
285
Ontario, Canada
Category........
Visa Office......
CIC Etobocoke, H&C Grounds
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
24-03-2014
File Transfer...
31-07-2014
Med's Request
09-12-2014
LANDED..........
24-02-2015, PR Card Received: 02-04-2015
we experienced this situation too - twice - we received denial for our visitor's visa application and the reasons were very similar. we noticed, once they deny, they never approve if you apply second time right away. so we waited a few months, at the same time we collected the most possible proofs, the proofs that were difficult to deny. and we were approved! we were granted a visitor's visa being in a foreign country as visitors that usually almost impossible to get.
the main thing is just never give up and feel positive.
good luck
 

Suin

VIP Member
Sep 14, 2008
4,037
285
Ontario, Canada
Category........
Visa Office......
CIC Etobocoke, H&C Grounds
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
24-03-2014
File Transfer...
31-07-2014
Med's Request
09-12-2014
LANDED..........
24-02-2015, PR Card Received: 02-04-2015
Personally, I do not understand the reason why the Russian embassy denied the application - their son doesn't have a permanent resident status in Canada, and if they overstay, they will be illegal with all the worst outcome of being deported and banned. Also they have oldish parents who need care and support - plus the business that must be run - it must be mentioned in the application with all the obtained medical letters from the nurses or doctors confirming their age and requirements of being cared after. If they have enough money of their own they don't need prove of financial support from their son - they just need to list all their property and monthly/yearly income.
Maybe a tick can be if both of you say that you are about to marry and invite them for your engagement? As I heard in Russian culture it's quite important that parents are present on the engagement party of their kids. So maybe a letter informing about this coming event can make a visa officer believe in their true intentions to be back (in combinations with all the letters about their parents, property and finances)?
And it doesn't matter whether you marry or not in future, once they issue visa they will not be interested about if your plans were changed or not, just the opposite - it can help his parents to get visa next time they make application after being back home from Canada this time.
good luck
 

MARLENA

Hero Member
Mar 24, 2009
866
2
Suin what happen with your situation. Did you apply for visa extension!!!!! Are u still in Canada???
 

Suin

VIP Member
Sep 14, 2008
4,037
285
Ontario, Canada
Category........
Visa Office......
CIC Etobocoke, H&C Grounds
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
24-03-2014
File Transfer...
31-07-2014
Med's Request
09-12-2014
LANDED..........
24-02-2015, PR Card Received: 02-04-2015
Hello, MARLENA.
Yes, I am still in Canada and we are planning to apply for the extension around 2 months before this stay permit expires - we still have time as it will be somewhere around Christmas time.
Do they extend visa from the day one files application or from the day they send their decision?
 

job_seeker

VIP Member
Jul 27, 2009
4,539
83
Suin said:
Hello, MARLENA.
Yes, I am still in Canada and we are planning to apply for the extension around 2 months before this stay permit expires - we still have time as it will be somewhere around Christmas time.
Do they extend visa from the day one files application or from the day they send their decision?

If and when they grant the extension, it usually is the date you place (asked for) on the application form.
 

RainDroplet

Newbie
Sep 1, 2009
3
0
frolic said:
I have been in a similar situation as you.

Fourth...I hear that a Russian male who has lived outside Russia for more than 6 months isn't eligible for the draft anymore. Don't take my word on that...find out more about that law before you try this. Of course he has to be able to prove that he is not living there. Something about unregistering there, and then registering with the consulate here. I know there are legal and property rights attached to the registering so be careful of that of course.

Good luck. Just trying to help and let you know we all feel the same way...stuck in the system.

As some encouragement...once we were married and my wife had traveled some with me on our honeymoon, she was able to visit here while our perm visa was being processed.
This new information you have provided is very interesting ... and maybe possible. He has resided in Canada for two years now, and has no intention of living back in Russia. If it's true, we may be able to be freed of this ... originally, our intention was to visit Russia - we thought it would be considrably easier for me to visit Russia then it would be for them to come here. (I have a family here, I have many ties here, and I am not married or engaged.) But the one-year draft concerns us. We'll look into that asap, thank you! :DDD If it's true, it would resolve many issues for both of us. :)

As for what you mentioned regarding traveling history, a visa officer (I don't believe the one who denied them) told them that the most probable reason for the rejection were them having a 'blank passport'. She advised them to travel a few places, to obtain other visa's.

Still, they would have made here by tomorrow ... it was a mistake to be so excited about meeting them. I'm sort of over it, but I certainly put myself up for a big dissapointment - they did, too. Their courier told them it would be 'easy' - so they had high hopes. It made it worse when my boyfriend told them i was upset, and they were like (in Russian) "Don't be sad! We like you happy. We're so happy he has you!" This whole thing would've been easier if they had turned out to be jerks. :p (We speak over Skype, or try to be speak ... broken English and Russian from both sides...)

Suin said:
And it doesn't matter whether you marry or not in future, once they issue visa they will not be interested about if your plans were changed or not, just the opposite - it can help his parents to get visa next time they make application after being back home from Canada this time.
good luck
Well, we do hope to marry in the future ... if we do marry, I'd hope that would help, I'd love for them to be there...as for the documents, we honestly went over as many documents as possible, but I bet you we missed something ...
 

frolic

Hero Member
Jul 21, 2008
218
5
Sounds like you are less sad now Rain...good to see.

Just remember that my information about Russian draft laws is based on my Canadian viewpoint looking in. I only watch news and discussions about that issue because my step-son is 10 now and we will have the same problem in 8 years. I haven't really investigated it much yet. Hope it helps you.

I do think travel history can help. It did seem to help my wife. Sort of the idea to take baby steps and visit some other country with less restrictive rules before trying a larger step of travel to Canada.

Here is the text that I think is important...from this link...
http://www.consultant.ru/online/base/?req=doc;base=LAW;n=70222

Раздел II. ВОИНСКИЙ УЧЕТ


Статья 8. Организация воинского учета


1. Граждане обязаны состоять на воинском учете, за исключением граждан:

освобожденных от исполнения воинской обязанности в соответствии с настоящим Федеральным законом;

проходящих военную службу или альтернативную гражданскую службу;

отбывающих наказание в виде лишения свободы;

женского пола, не имеющих военно-учетной специальности;

постоянно проживающих за пределами Российской Федерации.
Anyway that is what I found that might be interesting for you. Good luck!
 

RainDroplet

Newbie
Sep 1, 2009
3
0
Oh, I'm still sad, but I can't mope about it forever, and it's not something to draw on I suppose. I think it must be more painful for his parents then it is for me, they're the ones who haven't seen him in over two years and they are the ones staying up past what would be 4 AM in their time zone just so they can speak with their son online and see him over webcam.

Either way, they seem to want us to go back to Plan A: Us visiting Russia. XD IF, and only IF their son is promised not to be placed into the army. Apparently his father has spoken to someone in regards to the laws, and the person (whoever it is, I have no idea) is going to try and help (without bribes) to get him out of the army. However, he may have to gain permanent residency here - something which he is going to get, but can't just yet until he takes a special English test. So, it'll probably be awhile until I get the chance to meet them (at least a year?). If we go there, there's still the small chance that my own visa application would get rejected by Russia, right?

All of this immigration stuff is giving me quite the headache/heart ache. I never had to concern myself with such things before.
 

frolic

Hero Member
Jul 21, 2008
218
5
If we go there, there's still the small chance that my own visa application would get rejected by Russia, right?
I've gotten a few Russian visas now and it is not hard at all for a Canadian to visit Russia. My last one was even a multi-entry one. I don't think you will be denied, I haven't heard of many people being denied. Usually when they do it is because they screwed up the paperwork or they did something while there that flagged them later.

You can think about Plan C as well. Meet in a third country that both Russians and Canadians can go to easily. Egypt, Turkey, Morocco, Cyprus for example. Even Cuba.
 

job_seeker

VIP Member
Jul 27, 2009
4,539
83
RainDroplet said:
Oh, I'm still sad, but I can't mope about it forever, and it's not something to draw on I suppose. I think it must be more painful for his parents then it is for me, they're the ones who haven't seen him in over two years and they are the ones staying up past what would be 4 AM in their time zone just so they can speak with their son online and see him over webcam.

Either way, they seem to want us to go back to Plan A: Us visiting Russia. XD IF, and only IF their son is promised not to be placed into the army. Apparently his father has spoken to someone in regards to the laws, and the person (whoever it is, I have no idea) is going to try and help (without bribes) to get him out of the army. However, he may have to gain permanent residency here - something which he is going to get, but can't just yet until he takes a special English test. So, it'll probably be awhile until I get the chance to meet them (at least a year?). If we go there, there's still the small chance that my own visa application would get rejected by Russia, right?

All of this immigration stuff is giving me quite the headache/heart ache. I never had to concern myself with such things before.
Your best bet would probably meet on a neutral territory where it is not difficult to obtain visitor visas for you and your boyfriend and his parents, there by avoiding the chance of him being drafted if and when he goes back to Russia.
 
C

CanuckQuest

Guest
RainDroplet,

Like you, I am completely shocked at Canada's visa requirements on some countries. I had no idea until just a couple of months ago when a Mexican friend applied for a visa, how contrary Canada's immigration policies are to the values of Canadians. I already wrote to some politicians about it, though I haven't heard back and I'm not too hopeful about how much it will help. The most frustrating thing about your situation is that Canada seems to want to keep visiting relatives out, just because they are relatives and may want to stay! That seems sort of backwards to me. Shouldn't it be keeping relatives together that is the main goal of a country like ours? After all, if a relative entered Canada and did decide to stay, who would they really be hurting anyways? Only themselves as they can't work or gain access to our healthcare department. Canada's immigration laws need a complete overhaul to be aimed at Human Rights, rather than worrying so much about keeping illegals out. If someone is found doing something illegal, they go to trial and pay the consequences, right? But until that happens, you're innocent, right? That's what our constitution says. What's wrong with this picture? I am at a loss as to what can be done about this injustice.