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How to Retain the PR Status?

Leon

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goldmary said:
Leon thanks for ur answer.

Do I get into Canada during weekends using my U.S green card or Canadian pr?

Also my wife is planning to enroll at Wayne state university,and be commuting from Windsor,ON to Detroit on the days of her classes.But she will definitely get back to Windsor every night in order to sleep in Canada.Our kids 8 and 6 years respectively, will be living in Canada permanently,and be attending school as well.

Another option: Do u think she should leave U.S entirely,and live in Canada until her citizenship without commuting to school?
You use the Canadian PR to enter Canada and your US green card to enter the US.

Your wife will be able to prove her days in Canada with her rental contract, bank statements, telephone bill, kids being in school in Canada, very important and health records of her and the kids having visited the doctor and dentist on a regular bases as I am sure they will.

Studying in the US will not really jeopardize her PR status or citizenship application although for citizenship, there is now an intent clause so they may question her intent of staying in Canada if she is commuting to the US every day. However, in 4 years time, her studies will probably be completed and she will be working in Canada at that point.
 

goldmary

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Nov 1, 2013
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Hello Leon and other members,

Are there other border cities like Windsor,ON and Detroit,MI?That means very close together possibly 15mins or sth close?

We want to choose the best border cities in terms of job opportunities,security and standard of living.

My wife and I are health professionals.
 

Leon

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I don't know of any border cities in the prairies, mostly Ontario. Being health professionals, I suppose you wont have a problem finding a job. Sault Ste. Marie is a border town on both sides of the border but it's not very big and there is Niagara Falls but I know someone who grew up there and she said it's pretty dead outside of tourist season. However, it wouldn't affect you because people always get sick. You can find some smaller towns along the border too.
 

antho065

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Sep 13, 2015
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Folks, would it be easier and faster to renounce my PR status and re-apply through the Federal Skilled Workers Program?
In the meantime, as mentioned by goldmary, is it possible to live/work in say, Detroit, then once I get my PR, I move to Windsor and live there, but work in Detroit?
I read it from somewhere that any length of time in a day in Canada counts as a full day. So if I commute daily from Windsor to Detroit, and back at night after work, I should be able to satisfy the residency obligation, correct? Would the CBSA prohibit/stop me from commuting to work in Detroit (US) and living in Windsor (Canada), as a PR?
Thanks!
 

Leon

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antho065 said:
Folks, would it be easier and faster to renounce my PR status and re-apply through the Federal Skilled Workers Program?
In the meantime, as mentioned by goldmary, is it possible to live/work in say, Detroit, then once I get my PR, I move to Windsor and live there, but work in Detroit?
I read it from somewhere that any length of time in a day in Canada counts as a full day. So if I commute daily from Windsor to Detroit, and back at night after work, I should be able to satisfy the residency obligation, correct? Would the CBSA prohibit/stop me from commuting to work in Detroit (US) and living in Windsor (Canada), as a PR?
Thanks!
If you want to renounce your PR status and apply again, you should make sure that you qualify to apply under the new rules. You have to have enough points and it's hard to do that without a job offer (LMIA) and those can be hard to get.

If you meet the RO, there wouldn't be a problem living in Windsor and working in Detroit as long as you are eligible to work in the US, citizen, green card, work permit etc. You would meet the RO because you are in Canada every day. You can even apply for citizenship because you are in Canada every night too. However, if you come back with an old PR and don't meet the RO and want to put your status in good standing, you should really stay for 2 years straight without leaving because each time you re-enter Canada, you would be taking a risk that you would get reported.
 

antho065

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Sep 13, 2015
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Leon said:
If you want to renounce your PR status and apply again, you should make sure that you qualify to apply under the new rules. You have to have enough points and it's hard to do that without a job offer (LMIA) and those can be hard to get.

If you meet the RO, there wouldn't be a problem living in Windsor and working in Detroit as long as you are eligible to work in the US, citizen, green card, work permit etc. You would meet the RO because you are in Canada every day. You can even apply for citizenship because you are in Canada every night too. However, if you come back with an old PR and don't meet the RO and want to put your status in good standing, you should really stay for 2 years straight without leaving because each time you re-enter Canada, you would be taking a risk that you would get reported.
I have a job offer from a Canadian employer, but I haven't signed it or accepted it. Does that count and would that add points to my profile for the FSW program?
 

Msafiri

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antho065 said:
I have a job offer from a Canadian employer, but I haven't signed it or accepted it. Does that count and would that add points to my profile for the FSW program?
Even if its accepted how long will the employer hold the job for you as the immigration paperwork process is bound to take some considerable duration? But based on your list of posts in this thread I'm puzzled why if you want PR you are going through the whole hassle of regaining PR by giving up the PR you already have. Is staying in Canada for 730 days continuously the issue? If its the issue then you will end up with the same siltation in several years time if you do re-acquire PR. Is your current job offer on the NAFTA list? NAFTA for initial entry gets you into the labour market and you can review your options once in Canada for PR acquisition.
 

antho065

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Sep 13, 2015
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Msafiri said:
Even if its accepted how long will the employer hold the job for you as the immigration paperwork process is bound to take some considerable duration? But based on your list of posts in this thread I'm puzzled why if you want PR you are going through the whole hassle of regaining PR by giving up the PR you already have. Is staying in Canada for 730 days continuously the issue? If its the issue then you will end up with the same siltation in several years time if you do re-acquire PR. Is your current job offer on the NAFTA list? NAFTA for initial entry gets you into the labour market and you can review your options once in Canada for PR acquisition.
The problem right now is I don't meet the RO. I can try to appeal based on H&C grounds, but it's very unlikely. I was advised to renounce the PR and enter Canada as a NAFTA Professional, and then apply to the FSW program. I was told that I cannot get a NAFTA work permit if I currently have a PR status.
Yes, the current job offer is on the NAFTA list, and I am qualified in one of the NAFTA job professions.
Honestly, I do not want to go through this whole hassle of renouncing and regaining. I don't mind entering on my PR status and be based in Canada. However, this current job offer would require me to travel both domestically in Canada and internationally (e.g. to the US) for business trips. I was told that every time cross the border, I would risk losing my PR status and I do not want that.
Thus, I was advised with the above solution: (1) renounce PR status, (2) enter as a NAFTA professional, (3) apply to the FSW program to get a PR status.
 

Msafiri

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antho065 said:
The problem right now is I don't meet the RO. I can try to appeal based on H&C grounds, but it's very unlikely. I was advised to renounce the PR and enter Canada as a NAFTA Professional, and then apply to the FSW program. I was told that I cannot get a NAFTA work permit if I currently have a PR status.
Yes, the current job offer is on the NAFTA list, and I am qualified in one of the NAFTA job professions.
Honestly, I do not want to go through this whole hassle of renouncing and regaining. I don't mind entering on my PR status and be based in Canada. However, this current job offer would require me to travel both domestically in Canada and internationally (e.g. to the US) for business trips. I was told that every time cross the border, I would risk losing my PR status and I do not want that.
Thus, I was advised with the above solution: (1) renounce PR status, (2) enter as a NAFTA professional, (3) apply to the FSW program to get a PR status.
1.The message is 'you may' not 'you will for sure' be reported when you enter Canada in breach of the RO. By default this risk increases the more you travel and interact with CBSA. Being reported depends who you find at the border. Some agents feel sorry for people and may buy your story, others appreciate honesty, others can't deal with the hassle and paperwork so let you slide, others do their job, others out to make a name etc.

2. I'd say 80 percent of the threads on this section of the forum are from PRs who are in breach of the RO but CIC don't know this and these PRs are trying to return to Canada without being reported. Most of them have the problem that their passport doesn't allow them to just board a plane to Canada they need a PR Card or a PRTD. Applying for a PRTD brings to the attention of CIC they are in breach of the RO. You have the good fortune as a USC not to need a PR Card or PRTD to get to the Canadian border. On the downside not having a valid PR Card when you show up at the border tends to result in referral to Secondary Inspection.

3. Just return to Canada and at the border chances are you will be admitted as a regular visitor. Several thousand USCs are crossing the border at any one time so CBSA doesn't have time to ask each one of them if they are a PR and dig into their RO. You may get lucky. Once you are inside Canada without report then the problem most PRs have is staying continuously for 2 years. If you can get in without report and stay put for 2 years then you are back in RO compliance. Even if you can't stay put due to business travel then evaluate how much travel you will actually do over a 2 year period and see what percentage this will be of the 2 years and make a call based on this. Deal with the report issue when it happens don't relinquish your PR.

4. Alternatively accept like all PRs in your situation that its time to choose between your job and Canadian PR - staying put is the risk free route to PR preservation. I look at it this way - can I get another job? How easy is this? Can a I get PR again? How easy is this? I'd say the 'keep PR trumps' the job any day all day but that's just my 2 cents. Evaluate too your long term goals because there is little point in going through either the 'save my PR' or 're-apply for PR' processes given the time and resource this entail if you will have such extensive travel that in a few years you are back into the same situation again.

5. Weight 4 up against going the NAFTA, FSW, PR route as you will get a fresh 5 year RO window to maintain compliance and won't have to deal with the worry of a report each time you re-enter Canada.
 

kateg

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Msafiri said:
On the downside not having a valid PR Card when you show up at the border tends to result in referral to Secondary Inspection.
As an experiment, I crossed the border repeatedly using a US passport card. The latest attempt was last night. Every single time I do it, I get questioned about my status.

Question 1: Where's home?
(They want to know where I live - if it's outside Canada, I'm a visitor).

Question 2: Do you have status in Canada?
(As soon as I say I live in Canada, I get asked this question 100% of the time).

Question 3: Do you have your permanent resident card?
I respond that I don't have it, because I haven't received it.

Question 4: Do you have proof of status?
This is when I bring out the CoPR.

I've done this now at least 5 times, and it plays out the same way each time. It doesn't matter what I say or how I say it, if home is Canada, they want to know my status. With my NEXUS card, they generally just ask if I have things to declare. It still shows my status from my work and study permits, so they don't bother asking.

When you cross the border, you're going to get questioned. If you tell the truth (and you should), they are likely very likely to ask about status. What they do after that point is ultimately up to the agent. They may take pity, they may report you, but there is a very good chance they will know what your situation is. It is, after all, their job to find out.
 

Msafiri

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kateg said:
...When you cross the border, you're going to get questioned. If you tell the truth (and you should), they are likely very likely to ask about status. What they do after that point is ultimately up to the agent. They may take pity, they may report you, but there is a very good chance they will know what your situation is. It is, after all, their job to find out.
No doubt. The Primary Line may get to 'show me your COPR' and when they see its in the first 5 year RO period after landing or certainly in the first 3 years wave you through. Anyone showing up with an IMM1000 will be lucky not to go to Secondary.
 

kateg

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Msafiri said:
No doubt. The Primary Line may get to 'show me your COPR' and when they see its in the first 5 year RO period after landing or certainly in the first 3 years wave you through. Anyone showing up with an IMM1000 will be lucky not to go to Secondary.
That's where we start to see some of the variation. There are plenty of people who meet the RO without having a card, so they can't automatically assume that a lack of a card equals a breached RO.

Some officers will take you at your word, some won't. Some will dig, some won't. Some will be more sympathetic. Some won't.

I've been in secondary quote a few times (original study permit + OWP, applying for a study permit for my wife, landing, attempting to import the car, temporarily importing the car, permanently importing the car, replacement study permit for me due to error, my work permit, etc.), and I've had the opportunity to see other people interact. There's also a nice show by national geographic that shows people interacting with the CBSA regularly.

A lot of how you are treated depends on your attitude - people can talk their way into problems very easily. Spend a little time in secondary, and you will get to see people losing their permanent residency, being denied work permits, being arrested, or turned back. Sometimes they have hearings (I believe this is generally for people who are given an opportunity to withdraw their application for entry, but choose not to).

Some things are mandatory - declaring a weapon (for example) will get you secondary. Most things are discretionary, and being respectful goes a long, long way. When we were applying for an OWP, the people in front of us were declined due to doubts that their application was genuine. The same exact officer, when we attempted to provide things like proof of funds, told us to put them away because they weren't needed.

Some people get declined for study permits because they have insufficient ties to their home country. I flat-out told them that I had no family ties, that I sold everything I old, and that I had every intention of finding a way to live permanently in Canada. Instead of being declined, the officer suggested (pre express entry) looking into the possibility of a NAFTA work permit to help work towards P/R. The biggest difference between the two cases? An understanding that if they ask me to leave, I leave. If my status expires, I leave. The family ties, residential ties, job ties, etc. serve as a means to an end - evidence that someone will leave. If they trust you to leave (because you are genuine), the proof becomes unnecessary. If they don't, the proof may not be enough. Attitude is everything.

If you're going to breach the R/O, have a good reason, and fix it as quick as you can. They are people, and they are going to respond better to someone who did what they needed to, and came back as soon as they can. If they feel you don't take it seriously, that you're trying to take inappropriate advantage of Canada's offer, that you hold the system in contempt, or that you're playing games with them, you're hiding or lying about things, then you're much more likely to have a bad time. You may get lucky, you may not, but a good attitude will go a very, very long way. If you get lucky, quit messing around, learn from your mistake, stay the required two years, and reapply for the card.
 

Dave4236

Member
Aug 8, 2015
18
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I agree how attitude is everything at the border. Smiles and respect go a long ways.

I am a US citizen and my wife is a Canadian citizen. We have been married 43 years and have been across the border many times. We have a lot of interesting stories and nearly all are good.

About 3 years ago we starting to look into returning again to Canada and asked at the border if my old Landed Immigrant status was valid. I was told a very curt no, so this spring I submitted all the multitudes of paper and $$ that are required for sponsored immigration. We stopped again at the border this August again with some questions about the forms for bringing your stuff to Canada. This time it was a really good CBSA officer that knew his stuff. From the questions we were asking, he said that he did not think I really needed to apply for the immigration. He asked if we had a little time and he would look into it. After about 45 minutes and a number of questions he said my old status was still valid because I met the RO by having been with my Canadian wife. He ended up stamping my US passport as PR and put in the original landing date. He also then did something that has me signed up with Decision Made for a PR card. Our jaws just dropped.

So again, smiles, respect and a positive confident attitude can go a long way.

Oh, and if you want minimum questions at the border, go during really bad weather. We have driven across a number of times during snow storms and it is often just one question. The window will slide open just a couple of inches and “Where are you going?” – “Bye”