How is it possible to get a refusal when proof is in application?

[sitandwait]

When there are months/years of phone bills submitted, photos of family and trips, passport stamps in and out of the country. Marriage certificate and all docs are true. Letters from family and friends, emails, police and medicals ok, etc..How could an application possibly get refused by what they call "red flags"? Red flags to them or not, the proof is still there for them to see. When a person sends the application with proof, how can a vo refuse it without proof to the opposite? Doesn't a decision have to be made on facts or can a decision be made on a vo's "hunch" and just ignore the facts? That's not fair. It shouldn't be guilty until proven innocent. It should be the other way around. Assumed innocent if all docs are in order and proof is submitted until a vo can prove otherwise. I've just seen so many cases that seem to be unfairly refused on a hunch when the proof is right in front of them.
It's up to us to convince the vo but phone bills, photos and all the things I mentioned above aren't good enough? Then what is good enough for proof :?
Maybe there's an expert out there who can anwer this question.

 

[matthewc]

Here's the unfortunate reality: People abuse the system, and those of us in legitimate relationships pay the price - through long wait times or worse, refusal.

Sometimes, people knowingly marry and sponsor someone only to help them gain PR status. Other times, there are really unpleasant situations occur where sponsors are deceived into sponsoring someone who's really just using them to get into Canada. So, visa officers are tasked with the difficult job of trying to spot the fraudulent marriages and allow the genuine ones. That's far from easy, involves weighing evidence, and judgement. Humans make mistakes, so sometimes legitimate applications get refused, especially when there are "red flags" similar to previous cases that have turned out to be fraudulent. Remember that all that evidence - letters from friends, phone bills, emails, photos etc - can be (and is) faked by people trying to scam the system.

CIC could do more with more resources of course, but the whole mess is really the fault of the people who attempt to scam the system.

 

[thaihubbie]

sitandwait, I agree with you 100%. Isn't it part of our general Canadian legal system which immigration falls under that people are innocent until proven guilty? Please answer this question someone because I've asked it before and not got a definitive answer. Why are people granted Visitor's Visas in which they 'proved' they would be returning to their home country, then are allowed to extend this visa and then their spouse applies to sponsor them while they are in Canada? How does that make them a 'Visitor'? Basically, when the person goes into the office in Canada to get an extension it's outright 'proving' that they lied in their Visitor's Visa application and/or interview.Isn't that fraud poster matthewc? Then the others who didn't get a visitor's visa are waiting it out in their home country while those people are already in Canada on a legal but it appears to me fraudulent lucky break . I really don't understand this.

 

[wes786]

Its sad but unfortunately its reality! Scammers have done their jobs already, people have abused the system and now they are living their lives happily and us with a genuine relationships have to pay the price. Just one bitter truth...

 

[sitandwait]

So, in fact, there is no real proof for a genuine couple if a scammer can get all of these documents as well. My heart is going out to so many people that have a genuine relationship and have waited months only to be refused. There needs to be proof that the relationship is fake. It's not right to deny on a hunch. The right to marry who we love and live with them here in Canada has been taken away, many times without proof that it's not genuine. The officers are human too and shouldn't have the pressure of being able to know if not by proof, by "intuition". The scammers are good at what they do, they aren't going to show their true faces until after they have arrived here. Canada can't just keep denying people that they suspect "might" be scammers. There's something wrong with a system that punishes real couples for the fault of others with bad intentions. This is Canada, what are we doing with such an inaccurate, archaic system?
Oh, oh, might have said too much...just my 2 cents. Don't yell at me :-X

 

[Yaya Marei]

Ohh My God I am getting scared here, what if they,,,,,,
I do not want to be far from my lover because someone feel, orCIC was upset thats day,, No ths is not accapt,, what they need prove more, than what you mentioned ,
if some people lie what is our faults, why we have to pay thats,
:-\ :'( :-X

 

[sitandwait]

Yaya, sorry, did not mean to scare you!! That was definitely not my intention. I think if your application is "normal" with no red flags that this is not an issue and no reason to worry at all. I am talking about situations that might draw attention to the application but are still genuine. Those situations might have to be a judgement call and because human decision is involved some people will get denied who shouldn't. (to be on the side of caution) I just wish there was a better way to "weed out" the insincere people is all. Please don't worry, I'm sure things are all good for you.

 

[whoopi83]

sitandwait, I agree with you 100%. Isn't it part of our general Canadian legal system which immigration falls under that people are innocent until proven guilty?

I understand your sentiment but in reality the law is that he who asserts must prove, therefore if you are charged with a criminal offence then the prosecution must prove your guilt (i.e. innocent until proven guilty) but when you send an application you are asserting that what you say is the truth and subsequently must "prove". You have asserted a right.