How do we calculate 12-month Work experience??

[SenoritaBella]

A PGWP is based on receiving "confirmation of having completed program requirements". This is not the same as graduation(convocation), which is when you receive your degree. Before graduation, you are call a "graduant" and after convocation a "graduate".

When CIC says, "after obtaining a Canadian education credential", they mean after graduation. Some members have been rejected because they misunderstood this aspect.

With the new rules, it's not clear how CIC will evaluate this so it may be worthwhile to check with the call centre(they don't always know the right answers) or a lawyer. Failing that and if still unsure, it is safer to start counting after graduation and working using the PGWP.

The definition of graduation in the context of what we're trying to achieve an understanding of isn't as clear as the definition of water, and neither is it something that is only confusing for non-native speakers. I've actually consulted with "native" speakers who are confused by it, and CIC itself seems to have varying definitions depending on whether you're applying for a PGWP or CEC.

The PGWP program is quite specific when it comes to showing proof of graduation in order to qualify, and anyone who has applied and received a PGWP has had to receive that proof directly from their institutions for successfully completing their program of study. Can you please clarify how someone could get a PGWP that is solely based on graduating from your program of study, and yet be denied for not having graduated later on? Are you seriously implying that this is somehow a problem with semantics that non-native speaking people cannot comprehend?

Some of you have indicated that the PGWP program and the CEC program are completely separate with differing requirements, and that is valid, however, the "definition" of graduation isn't the same if convocation equals graduation in CEC and the successful completion of a program equals graduation in PGWP, as this original poster is trying to imply.

 

[jes_ON]

and CIC itself seems to have varying definitions depending on whether you're applying for a PGWP or CEC. The PGWP program is quite specific when it comes to showing proof of graduation in order to qualify, and anyone who has applied and received a PGWP has had to receive that proof directly from their institutions for successfully completing their program of study.

No, they don't. The two different programs have two different eligibility requirements, that is true. But the definition of "graduation" is very much the same. With the PGWPP, you can apply as soon as you are "eligible to graduate" or met the "requirements to graduate" - that is not the same as having graduated.

Can you please clarify how someone could get a PGWP that is solely based on graduating from your program of study, and yet be denied for not having graduated later on?
See above. And, people are not being denied for not having graduated. They are being refused for not meeting the 1 year post-graduation eligibility requirement.


Are you seriously implying that this is somehow a problem with semantics that non-native speaking people cannot comprehend?

Yes, seriously, I am stating (not implying) that it is a problem of cross-cultural communication between native and non-native speakers. I am saying the problem occurs when the people who write the instructions (native speakers) do not (cannot) anticipate what words or terms will be difficult for non-native speakers.

I am not "blaming" non-native speakers. I am trying to help them. There are other stories on here of people who were told they were eligible to graduate, thought they HAD graduated, but never did, never applied to graduate because they thought "graduation" was just some boring ceremony. If I can help someone avoid that error, I will.

Some of you have indicated that the PGWP program and the CEC program are completely separate with differing requirements, and that is valid, however, the "definition" of graduation isn't the same if convocation equals graduation in CEC and the successful completion of a program equals graduation in PGWP, as this original poster is trying to imply.

Successful completion of a program = eligibility for PGWP. But this is not the definition of graduation. Neither is convocation - that is the graduation ceremony.

BTW - I am not defending either CIC's rules or the way they are written - they should be clarified. The REAL contradiction in the new eligibility criteria is - the requirement to work for 1 year after graduation, vs. excluding "periods of employment during which you were engaged in full-time study." If you have met the requirements to graduate and have obtained the PGWP, you may not be full-time any more. So ...

Yes, it is contradictory, but the point is, unless you want to be a "guinea pig" for the new program and risk losing, you should interpret the rules conservatively, as SenoritaBella suggests. If you have not yet applied, and you started working on your PGWP before graduating, I still recommend counting your year begining with graduation.

If you have already applied based on this misunderstanding, I wish you the best and hope you make it through.

 

[dbss]

I'm confused too Tried to figure it out on my own, but failed.
If full-time work is considered being 30hrs/week and you could apply after 12months, when
am I able to apply under the CEC when i work 40hrs/week.
I started working September 2012.

Thanks so much!

no you cannot apply before 12 months and you cannot carry over hours from one week to another....your hours are locked in the week itself..anything beyond 30 in a week would not compensate the hours for next week if you work say 20 hours

 

[iam_toby]

Thank you so much! So, since I started to work in Canada Sept 2012 I'll be able to apply Sept 2013 then.

no you cannot apply before 12 months and you cannot carry over hours from one week to another....your hours are locked in the week itself..anything beyond 30 in a week would not compensate the hours for next week if you work say 20 hours

 

[lena741]

Thank you everyone for their input on this topic! I just wish CIC was clearer and more consistent.

Two more cents from me :
As somebody suggested before, CIC supposedly doesn't follow the language on their website (which is there to help us interpret the regulations).
CIC OP 25a states:
"Any period of employment during which the applicant was engaged in full-time study will
not be included in calculating the period of qualifying work experience (e.g. work
experience gained through co-op work permits, off-campus work permits while a full-time
student and on-campus work permits). [R87.1(3)(a)]. Officers should verify the work
permit information in GCMS."

And so does the Regulations act:
"(3) Paragraph 87.1(3)(a) of the Regulations is replaced by the following:

(a) any period of employment during which the foreign national was engaged in full-time study shall not be included in calculating a period of work experience"

There is no mention of "graduation/convocation/etc". As people on a PGWP are not engaged in full-time study, their work experience should count. Additionally, the application specifically asks if one was engaged in full-time study during the work period to verify this.

Having said all that, I honestly think it will be up to an officer to interpret the Act and the Manual. Some officers might still go by the old rules and not count the experience before graduation. I guess at the end of the day it will be a question of luck

P.S. the forum won't let me post links to the documents I mention. Must be some kind of rule...

 

[SenoritaBella]

I think you need to have 10 posts to be able to post links and send private messages. Try posting the links without the "http" part... start from www.

Thank you everyone for their input on this topic! I just wish CIC was clearer and more consistent.

Two more cents from me :
As somebody suggested before, CIC supposedly doesn't follow the language on their website (which is there to help us interpret the regulations).
CIC OP 25a states:
"Any period of employment during which the applicant was engaged in full-time study will
not be included in calculating the period of qualifying work experience (e.g. work
experience gained through co-op work permits, off-campus work permits while a full-time
student and on-campus work permits). [R87.1(3)(a)]. Officers should verify the work
permit information in GCMS."

And so does the Regulations act:
"(3) Paragraph 87.1(3)(a) of the Regulations is replaced by the following:

(a) any period of employment during which the foreign national was engaged in full-time study shall not be included in calculating a period of work experience"

There is no mention of "graduation/convocation/etc". As people on a PGWP are not engaged in full-time study, their work experience should count. Additionally, the application specifically asks if one was engaged in full-time study during the work period to verify this.

Having said all that, I honestly think it will be up to an officer to interpret the Act and the Manual. Some officers might still go by the old rules and not count the experience before graduation. I guess at the end of the day it will be a question of luck

P.S. the forum won't let me post links to the documents I mention. Must be some kind of rule...

 

[iamroth]

Thank you everyone for their input on this topic! I just wish CIC was clearer and more consistent.

Two more cents from me :
As somebody suggested before, CIC supposedly doesn't follow the language on their website (which is there to help us interpret the regulations).
CIC OP 25a states:
"Any period of employment during which the applicant was engaged in full-time study will
not be included in calculating the period of qualifying work experience (e.g. work
experience gained through co-op work permits, off-campus work permits while a full-time
student and on-campus work permits). [R87.1(3)(a)]. Officers should verify the work
permit information in GCMS."

And so does the Regulations act:
"(3) Paragraph 87.1(3)(a) of the Regulations is replaced by the following:

(a) any period of employment during which the foreign national was engaged in full-time study shall not be included in calculating a period of work experience"

There is no mention of "graduation/convocation/etc". As people on a PGWP are not engaged in full-time study, their work experience should count. Additionally, the application specifically asks if one was engaged in full-time study during the work period to verify this.

Having said all that, I honestly think it will be up to an officer to interpret the Act and the Manual. Some officers might still go by the old rules and not count the experience before graduation. I guess at the end of the day it will be a question of luck

P.S. the forum won't let me post links to the documents I mention. Must be some kind of rule...

yah you could be right, some visa officer may allow your PGWP work experience, while some other may reject your application.
But it is better to stay safe and count 1 year FROM the date written on your degree/diploma.
Better safe than sorry

 

[samir3132]

Hi Every one,

is there any education requirement in cec class for pg wp holder?

Thanks,
sam

 

[SenoritaBella]

Why don't you visit www.cic.gc.ca and check the requirements for the CEC class? All the information is there.

Hi Every one,

is there any education requirement in cec class for pg wp holder?

Thanks,
sam

 

[Aussieaussie!]

no you cannot apply before 12 months and you cannot carry over hours from one week to another....your hours are locked in the week itself..anything beyond 30 in a week would not compensate the hours for next week if you work say 20 hours

If you are full time you can count weeks you worked less than 30 as equivalent of part time right? Variable hours suck bad.

 

[samir3132]

Thanks one more quation is time between u got graduation letter from college and time u got pgwp will be count as experiance with valid offcampus wp?