How do I reapply after a failed appeal?

[tgchi13]

Well Said.. And thank you Locolynn for seeing my point ....
You are receiving excellent advice. As we dont know the details ie how long youve been together and actually lived together and such . I dont know what actually raised the IO red flags to deny him.
Can you actually re-apply after losing an appeal?. If you can, i would suggest you build a strong VERY STRONG case that can leave absolutely no doubt to your relationship.
It is very very sad what you have gone through i would never wish that to even my worst enemy or hater!.. (Ok maybe just my hater but oh well!)
have you considered going public with your story?. Normally publicity does wonders!. am sure the canadian government doesnt want such a negative effect and you would get at least a sympathetic ear. Am suree CNN would take your story ..
Im just saying!!

CNN is not a Canadian news agent and a news agent would not consider her story news worthy unless she has irrefutable evidence. That's good, but how many of us enter into a relationship with the intention of gathering irrefutable proof? And, if she had that the appeal would have succeeded. Irrefutable proof is considered a symptom of a purchased relationship.

 

[sbwv09]

I don't know.. some of the more 'sensational' newspapers (the Sun, etc) may be more than willing to tell her story without that irrefutable proof. They do run immigration stories a lot... and some of them seem 100% shady (the 80 year old Canadian born and the 19 year old Chinese lady who spoke no English, etc), it might be worth a try to get the story out there.

 

[tgchi13]

I don't know.. some of the more 'sensational' newspapers (the Sun, etc) may be more than willing to tell her story without that irrefutable proof. They do run immigration stories a lot... and some of them seem 100% shady (the 80 year old Canadian born and the 19 year old Chinese lady who spoke no English, etc), it might be worth a try to get the story out there.

The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to agree: Canadianwoman, if you seek media attention regarding your relationship you may gain something but you certainly won't lose anything.

Good luck!

 

[locolynn]

The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to agree: Canadianwoman, if you seek media attention regarding your relationship you may gain something but you certainly won't lose anything.

Good luck!

I can appreciate that it might be difficult to take this step. Once you invite the media in, you can say goodbye to privacy. So if there are somethings in your past or your spouses past (whether they pertain to your relationship or not) that you don't necessarily want the world to be privy to, it can be hard to decide to open yourself up to that kind of criticism.

I'm not necessarily talking about illegal things either, it can be a simple as dredging past relationships, or past activities that don't reflect the person you and your spouse are now.

It's a brave step, but might be worth doing....

Lynn

 

[OnTheMove]

From what I remember from Canadianwoman's posts is that she got married in 2007-08. Although she has met the man who is now her husband 7 yrs ago, she has no proof that they have been together all these yrs. The only evidence she has is from the marriage onward (or something like that). Correct me if I am wrong, Canadianwoman.

That's why saying "we have been in a relationship for 7 yrs" means nothing to the judge if there is no proof.

I think if it was me, I would go to Nigeria to live with my hubby for a couple of years, then reapply. I think if Canadianwoman's husband is genuinly in love with her, he will make this move possible.

 

[joecreosta]

From what I remember from Canadianwoman's posts is that she got married in 2007-08. Although she has met the man who is now her husband 7 yrs ago, she has no proof that they have been together all these yrs. The only evidence she has is from the marriage onward (or something like that). Correct me if I am wrong, Canadianwoman.

That's why saying "we have been in a relationship for 7 yrs" means nothing to the judge if there is no proof.

I think if it was me, I would go to Nigeria to live with my hubby for a couple of years, then reapply. I think if Canadianwoman's husband is genuinly in love with her, he will make this move possible.

i agree with u

 

[canadianwoman]

if you dont mind me asking what exactly did you give as proof of your relationship??.

Looking back, I can see that I did not provide enough proof of our relationship in the application - at least for a mixed race couple applying through Accra, because I have seen cases on this forum that had less evidence than we did and were successful. However, the appeal is 'de novo', so you can add more evidence then.
We met in 2001 in Asia where we were both working. We dated from 2001 to 2005, but did not live together. We then went back to our own countries. We continued our relationship by phone. We got married in 2007.
For proof we had:
*evidence of our civil and traditional weddings and reception
*photos from my first trip to Nigeria on
*evidence of my four trips taken to visit him; total time together was trip 1: 2 weeks; trip 2: one month; trip 3: two and a half months; trip 4: two and a half months.
*evidence of two trips we took together in West Africa
*phone bills
*a few emails
*4 affidavits and 1 email attesting that we have a genuine relationship
*emails from a friend in Nigeria telling me how much my husband misses me
*documents showing what we planned for our life together in Canada (house mortgage, business plan)
*evidence of gifts given each other, and money transfers
*evidence I have been trying to get pregnant and that we have looked into adoption
*we have very little evidence we were dating from 2001 to 2005 - no photos, no receipts, no phone bills; so we got two affidavits from friends who knew us then stating we were in a relationship

i know this is a wild thought but maybe you can try having a baby??. i know its prob hard at this point but maybe if you have a babyb it may help??.

I would love to have a child. It's not working. I told the visa officer in Ghana that we were thinking of adopting a child, and she asked me questions about it, but she did not put this in the CAIPS notes.

Can your husband get a canadian visa at this point?. because if he can maybe he can come into canada and apply inland??.. .

Impossible. He's tried twice to come visit me, and was refused both times.

 

[Black-Berry]

Looking back, I can see that I did not provide enough proof of our relationship in the application - at least for a mixed race couple applying through Accra, because I have seen cases on this forum that had less evidence than we did and were successful. However, the appeal is 'de novo', so you can add more evidence then.
We met in 2001 in Asia where we were both working. We dated from 2001 to 2005, but did not live together. We then went back to our own countries. We continued our relationship by phone. We got married in 2007.
For proof we had:
*evidence of our civil and traditional weddings and reception
*photos from my first trip to Nigeria on
*evidence of my four trips taken to visit him; total time together was trip 1: 2 weeks; trip 2: one month; trip 3: two and a half months; trip 4: two and a half months.
*evidence of two trips we took together in West Africa
*phone bills
*a few emails
*4 affidavits and 1 email attesting that we have a genuine relationship
*emails from a friend in Nigeria telling me how much my husband misses me
*documents showing what we planned for our life together in Canada (house mortgage, business plan)
*evidence of gifts given each other, and money transfers
*evidence I have been trying to get pregnant and that we have looked into adoption
*we have very little evidence we were dating from 2001 to 2005 - no photos, no receipts, no phone bills; so we got two affidavits from friends who knew us then stating we were in a relationshipI would love to have a child. It's not working. I told the visa officer in Ghana that we were thinking of adopting a child, and she asked me questions about it, but she did not put this in the CAIPS notes.Impossible. He's tried twice to come visit me, and was refused both times.

Canadianwoman.. I am mortified that after providing all this info they still deem your relationship as in-genuine??. I see now how you would see it as racial. Because now i see it as racial too.. but again as you said maybe you didnt provide enough evidence in your situation as you should have?..
is there a way you can involve the minister of immigration or someone in higer power?. have you seen a lawyer yet??
As someone also suggested here could you go live in Accra with your husband??. I know canada has more and better benefits and is better to live in than ghana but at this point what are you willing to do??.
Am sorry that you could not have kids .. I have children of my own and i honestly did not have them for the wrong purposes!> they were born to me and my husband in pure love and we adore them both with all of our hearts!> Again because we have the kids this is definitely a PLUS in our PR process. it also seals the deal in our relationship and makes us more loving and stronger!. Not to mention the kids have canadian status so i would say if you have kids you have a stronger chance of him getting approval. Am just saying so please PEOPLE DO NOT BASH ME!!!... Am not saying she should have children for the sake of him getting status. im just saying that if you do have kids i think you stand a higher chance of getting approval!..

before we put in our PR application, my hubby and i visited canada many times and i have probably about five visas in my passport. all i gave them at the time when i was applying for my visas was my kids birth certificates and my bank statements and my marriage cert. as my proof to ties to the country i was living @.I am also from an African country originally and we are both of mixed race.

I am just surprised because as you said many people here give wayyy less evidence and the get approval immediately which leads me to think of the only reason is purely racial.

if i were you.. I would go and live with him in Ghana, meanwhile. make many local trips together.. go for outings. have functions, give gifts. Gather as much evidence as you possibly can say in abt two years about your relationship. Make sure it is inpentrable!. Involve someone of higher power.. tell them your case. . This is just me and i have been told off here for saying this but i think going to the media and making noise works!!. I would look into it if it were me!. i would consider it. I would PUSH the last button.. As a last resort!.
Dont give up though!!. I believe there is a solution to everything!. your case is not entirely hopeless. there are waayyy more hopeless looking cases than yours and they still get approved in the end!!..
Someone said CNN is not canadian. but canadians watch CNN. Go to your local news agency if you have to not necessarily CNN .

I pray for you and hope sometrhing works out. you are in my thoughts and prayers.
\Also why didnt the officer put in the notes about your intentions to adopt?. Note it down. when it happened. Do you have the name of the IO you dealt with? write a letter and put down the date.. where it hapened and the time if possible..
If that is the route you choose.. good luck with that too!..

 

[canadianwoman]

Also why didnt the officer put in the notes about your intentions to adopt?.

Thanks.
I also wonder why the visa officer didn't mention our plans to adopt in the CAIPS notes. To me, this is one piece of evidence that she had already made up her mind to refuse us, and so didn't want to put anything in the official record that would make our case look good.

As for going to the media - I think I would be too embarrassed, honestly. As for complaining to CIC or Olivia Chow (chair of the immigration board in Parliament), I'm thinking of it.

 

[Black-Berry]

Thanks.
I also wonder why the visa officer didn't mention our plans to adopt in the CAIPS notes. To me, this is one piece of evidence that she had already made up her mind to refuse us, and so didn't want to put anything in the official record that would make our case look good.

As for going to the media - I think I would be too embarrassed, honestly. As for complaining to CIC or Olivia Chow (chair of the immigration board in Parliament), I'm thinking of it.

I know what you mean about going to the media.. I must admit i would be totally embarrased too but i would as a last resort (VERY LAST) at least consider it.. But i know deep in my heart you will be fine.. and it will not come to that. Have you seen a lawyer yet?. I dont know if you said this already but i forgot..

Going to miss CHow sounds like a very good idea.
Best of luck in everything

 

[MexiCana]

Hi canadianwoman,

I have been following your case and I am very sorry to hear that your appeal was refused.

If you are considering judicial review I believe there may be very short time limitations so please move quickly. It is worth getting an opinion from a lawyer because this area of the law is quite specialized. The reviewing court will apply a certain level of deference to the tribunal's decision based on a number of factors and it involves a quite complicated legal analysis. I am a lawyer and I deal with a lot of my own legal issues myself, but this is the kind of situation where I would personally hire someone. If you are not happy with the lawyer who acted for you on your appeal, feel free to go to someone else. We don't take it personally and it's totally your right. You don't owe us anything!

I know some very good immigration lawyers in Toronto; if you are there and want a referral please PM me and I will put you in touch with them. I'm certainly not trying to shill for them, I just know it's hard to find good people if you don't know anyone. Mods, if this is not in accordance with the rules of this forum please feel free to delete and accept my apologies.

You've also got your MP and the media as other options as the other posters have suggested. I am not certain of the process but at this point would canadianwoman require something from the Minister of Immigration in her case because the legal process is completed? (Hopefully someone with expertise can advise.)

Another question in my mind is whether you can make an H & C application - an application to stay in Canada based on humanitarian and compassionate grounds. I have no idea what the requirements are for these applications it is possible that it is only available for persons already present in Canada (I don't know), so I'm not saying it's an option, I'm just throwing everything I can think of out there. Certainly when I think back to working in my school's clinic years ago we did H&Cs for everybody, but they were all present in Canada.

But mostly I am writing to express my sympathy. There is definitely a solution, whether it's moving to Nigeria or to a third country, but I am very sorry that you have to face these difficulties. Best wishes to you and your husband.

 

[clubcanada]

@canadianwoman:
I fully understand your frustration. Seeing it from a neutral perspective, I agree that your supporting docs should be compelling. I assume that CIC more or less trusted their stats over your evidence, though. For this reason, you might consider the following aspect:

I assume that CIC believes that you're in true love with your husband and from your side it is all genuine. You spent quite a lot effort, time and money to visit him. However, how can your husband prove that he is in love with you as well and that he will not dump you after arrival? I think this is the key to get the visa approved.

So what is your plan as a new application will require approx. 18 months? are you planning to move to africa and do an application from abroad?

btw: going to media? this is how it looks like: go to ctv . ca and look for 'Broken Vows' (not allowed to post a link)...

 

[toby]

The evidence that the relationship is authentic looks strong; there is already proof that it started no later than 2005, and they were married on 2007, so I doubt that piling on more evidence that the relationship really started before 2005 will make a difference.

Unless I missed an important post, we don't have detailed reasons for the refusal by the IAD. We need those reasons if we are going to be able to suggest practical solutions.

 

[canadianwoman]

@ canadianwoman:

I assume that CIC believes that you're in true love with your husband and from your side it is all genuine. You spent quite a lot effort, time and money to visit him. However, how can your husband prove that he is in love with you as well and that he will not dump you after arrival? I think this is the key to get the visa approved.

Actually, the appeal judge stated in the decision that she did not believe either of us had entered into the marriage with a long-term relationship in mind. But yes, I'm assuming his motives are suspect. How, though, do you prove someone will not dump you after arrival? Frankly, it's impossible to prove. Anyone could be dumped by their spouse tomorrow.

So what is your plan as a new application will require approx. 18 months? are you planning to move to africa and do an application from abroad?

I'm going to go live with him for a year and then apply again. I think the current application is dead in the water.

The more detailed reasons the judge gave to reject the appeal:
1. My husband was evasive so she didn't believe his answers, even when the answers were OK.
2. We did not know enough about each other: I didn't know about his lack of much education until after marriage, in particular. He didn't know enough about my life in Canada.
3. He did not know enough about my health - he did not know the names of the medicines I take.
4. He can speak English and has business experience, so would be able to establish himself in Canada without me.

5. The oddest reason, if it is a reason: in both the interview at the embassy and in court I got the impression the VO and the judge both thought that I was just traveling and was not actually with my husband. They did not state this outright on the CAIPS notes and appeal decision, but that idea seemed to be there. The VO asked me if I was traveling by myself in Nigeria. And the judge, in the decision, said she noted my 'extensive travels'. Usually on an appeal decision they note visits to be with the spouse, not just travels. I thought she was implying she didn't believe we were together.
The reason I think this is odd is that my husband lives in Delta State, one of the most dangerous areas in the world aside from war zones. The Canadian gov't travel advisory for this area is level 4 (out of 4, where 4 is bad): avoid all travel; the same level as Iraq and Afghanistan. I never saw any tourists when I was there. I'm pretty sure no white woman would be wandering around there alone for months.

 

[sbwv09]

Jeez... so they seem to reject some people because they have no business being in Canada, but since he speaks English and is successful he shouldn't come to Canada either?! If they think he could come to Canada by other means, why would they think he married to enter Canada? Damned if you do and damned if you don't!

I think they had their minds made up before the trial... for whatever reason.