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Housing crisis in Canada

Western Mountain Man

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Nov 2, 2018
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Sure works for me...but!

Property taxes go up as well and I know a lot of older people, 70+ that struggle to pay the tax on their multi million dollar houses in Vancouver. If you are on CPP only, it does not look exciting and they have to sell and leave their neighborhood of 40 odd years.
I'm sure most 'older people' would not like to relocate from their long term neighborhoods/friends/doctors etc. Unfortunately it's not getting any better and if they don't qualify for a reverse mortgage or tax deferment some elderly homeowners are going to the local food bank.

How is Trudeau going to address the housing crisis?
Distance himself, make sure his friends stay wealthy, and go on a nice vacation to the West Coast.
 
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canuck78

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To be honest, I don't see any pressure coming. The Liberal government is happy to keep things status quo and frankly, if you are a home owner, you have no problem seeing these prices keep going up. There are tons of young people in the housing market that own 2 or more properties (I think the figure was 20%) and another big chunk own a primary residence. Quite frankly, keeping the status quo and encouraging further growth will continue to occur, especially in the GTA/GVA. And besides, who doesn't like to own a nice Range Rover or Jaguar when houses are making 6 figure tax-free gains year over year
There is certainly pressure from those trying to get into the housing market and economists. The cost of living has a huge influence on things like birth rate. I know plenty of families who would have had another child had it not been for the size of their home and the cost of daycare. Yes there are some young people who own multiple residences but most are shoebox condos or properties out of the GTA and would imagine that many are 35-40 yrs old that got in early enough to build equity without doing anything which allowed them to upgrade or buy another property. There is a much larger number who own no properties. If you are under 40 you have lived in a world where housing prices have never really decreased so many people are investing in mostly real estate and not diversifying thinking that real estate prices can never decrease. I have seen so many profiles of families paying such a huge proportion of their income on their mortgage with minimal savings. These families would be in trouble with a job loss, illness, pregnancy, etc. would put them in a very scary position. Things like CERB saved the housing market last year. Many have also use their home as a piggy bank and count on price increases to compensate for them taking out equity over the years. Many have had a family gift of a deposit which allowed them to get into the market in places like Vancouver or Toronto. The down payment is the big stumbling block versus the mortgage for many.

The fixes should have come in under Harper so it is much harder to fix now. Lending requirements were loosened to increase access and demand and housing became a larger part of GDP all while interest rates decreased which lead to this huge rise in prices. Assume there will be more tightening when it comes to lending on additional homes. Many are counting on their house as their primary retirement fund which is also not a great. Between inflation, huge debt loads by the provinces and now the federal gvt, much slower growth in salaries, economic slowdown due to covid, etc. the government doesn’t want to do anything too drastic because things like increasing interest rates will hurt businesses coming out of the pandemic. We aren’t the only country having similar housing issues. Australia has a very similar issue and economy but housing prices are an issue in almost all countries. There has been a big disconnect between salaries and housing prices in most countries due to low borrowing costs for the past 20+ years. The longer this goes on the harder it gets to correct and of course those in the housing market don’t want housing prices to go down since many have benefitted from crazy returns purely due to when they got into the housing market.
 
Last edited:
Sep 11, 2021
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There is certainly pressure from those trying to get into the housing market and economists. The cost of living has a huge influence on things like birth rate. I know plenty of families who would have had another child had it not been for the size of their home and the cost of daycare. Yes there are some young people who own multiple residences but most are shoebox condos or properties out of the GTA and would imagine that many are 35-40 yrs old that got in early enough to build equity without doing anything which allowed them to upgrade or buy another property. There is a much larger number who own no properties. If you are under 40 you have lived in a world where housing prices have never really decreased so many people are investing in mostly real estate and not diversifying thinking that real estate prices can never decrease. I have seen so many profiles of families paying such a huge proportion of their income on their mortgage with minimal savings. These families would be in trouble with a job loss, illness, pregnancy, etc. would put them in a very scary position. Things like CERB saved the housing market last year. Many have also use their home as a piggy bank and count on price increases to compensate for them taking out equity over the years. Many have had a family gift of a deposit which allowed them to get into the market in places like Vancouver or Toronto. The down payment is the big stumbling block versus the mortgage for many.

The fixes should have come in under Harper so it is much harder to fix now. Lending requirements were loosened to increase access and demand and housing became a larger part of GDP all while interest rates decreased which lead to this huge rise in prices. Assume there will be more tightening when it comes to lending on additional homes. Many are counting on their house as their primary retirement fund which is also not a great. Between inflation, huge debt loads by the provinces and now the federal gvt, much slower growth in salaries, economic slowdown due to covid, etc. the government doesn’t want to do anything to drastic because things like increasing interest rates will hurt businesses coming out of the pandemic. We aren’t the only country having similar housing issues. Australia has a very similar issue and economy but housing prices are an issue in almost all countries. There has been a big disconnect between salaries and housing prices in most countries due to low borrowing costs for the past 20+ years. The longer this goes on the harder it gets to correct and of course those in the housing market don’t want housing prices to go down since many have benefitted from crazy returns purely due to when they got into the housing market.
I don't disagree with your points but at the same time, I highly doubt or foresee housing prices ever coming down. But I can tell you, people don't own shoebox condos or properties outside the GTA. It would surprise you when most own in the GTA and those single family homes in the suburbs or near downtown Toronto. There is a lot of wealth that has been created by this pandemic, when my house makes six-figure tax free gains in a single year, you know the housing market is hot. But even if it were to crash, even a 50% drop means I still don't break even and have a profit. The people living in the ridings that decide elections (GVA, GMA, GTA) quite frankly don't want the prices to drop and that's why we see a Liberal government again. I'm more than happy to see the properties appreciate, like we've all said, who doesn't want to benefit from these crazy returns and use those gains to live luxuriously, buy fancy cars, etc.
 

canuck78

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I don't disagree with your points but at the same time, I highly doubt or foresee housing prices ever coming down. But I can tell you, people don't own shoebox condos or properties outside the GTA. It would surprise you when most own in the GTA and those single family homes in the suburbs or near downtown Toronto. There is a lot of wealth that has been created by this pandemic, when my house makes six-figure tax free gains in a single year, you know the housing market is hot. But even if it were to crash, even a 50% drop means I still don't break even and have a profit. The people living in the ridings that decide elections (GVA, GMA, GTA) quite frankly don't want the prices to drop and that's why we see a Liberal government again. I'm more than happy to see the properties appreciate, like we've all said, who doesn't want to benefit from these crazy returns and use those gains to live luxuriously, buy fancy cars, etc.
Wealth generated during the pandemic is only due to lack of spending opportunities so I wouldn’t consider the wealth accumulated substantial. Many will go out and spend the money they saved once they can do things like travel. Many who were already in a good position were the ones who accumulated more wealth. There is also a large number of people who have lost money and businesses during the pandemic or will need to close their businesses in the next year. We haven’t seen the impacts of the pandemic when the government starts withdrawing many of the financial supports. Primary homes and investment properties are very different. Many have invested in small condos or properties outside Toronto. Never ending housing increases are not possible forever unless salaries suddenly start increasing substantially. Housing did not decide the election. A poor conservative candidate and the lack of desire to change governments during a pandemic was primarily what decided the election.
 

steaky

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Wealth generated during the pandemic is only due to lack of spending opportunities so I wouldn’t consider the wealth accumulated substantial. Many will go out and spend the money they saved once they can do things like travel. Many who were already in a good position were the ones who accumulated more wealth.
There are much spending opportunities in this pandemic. Things like travelling, buying a luxury car, jewelry and expensive handbags. You probably don't go out shopping or make online purchase..

Edit: Have you not heard of the pandemic pet boom? Here's an article:

https://ca.style.yahoo.com/pandemic-pet-boom-095510698.html
 
Last edited:
Sep 11, 2021
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Wealth generated during the pandemic is only due to lack of spending opportunities so I wouldn’t consider the wealth accumulated substantial. Many will go out and spend the money they saved once they can do things like travel. Many who were already in a good position were the ones who accumulated more wealth. There is also a large number of people who have lost money and businesses during the pandemic or will need to close their businesses in the next year. We haven’t seen the impacts of the pandemic when the government starts withdrawing many of the financial supports. Primary homes and investment properties are very different. Many have invested in small condos or properties outside Toronto. Never ending housing increases are not possible forever unless salaries suddenly start increasing substantially. Housing did not decide the election. A poor conservative candidate and the lack of desire to change governments during a pandemic was primarily what decided the election.
People are spending like crazy already and we're still not out of the pandemic. Have you been around Brampton, Mississauga, Oakville? Heck even downtown Toronto you see bars filled and weddings going on like no tomorrow. There has been a huge wealth accumulation by segments of the GTA/GVA and quite frankly, this wealth is here to stay. If you really think housing will ever come down in GTA/GVA, you'll just miss out on gains in the long-term. As long as housing keeps going up, the liberal government will stay in power unless the conservatives magically elect a trudeau-type leader which is highly doubtful. Housing is a great investment driver, live off that wealth and into the retirement sunset!
 

armoured

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If you really think housing will ever come down in GTA/GVA, you'll just miss out on gains in the long-term. .... Housing is a great investment driver, live off that wealth and into the retirement sunset!
It works as long as it does, until it doesn't.

HIstorically (at least in GTA) it's mostly not been corrections by outright price declines but by time (long periods with no price gains). Quite literally, properties that saw no price appreciation and didn't get back to their last sale price for 20 years or more. (Yes, I've seen specific actual cases). The owners can't 'afford' to take a big nominal loss and so just keep paying off their mortgage, eventually getting back what they put in when they sell. Because of the long term mortgages, it's not so obvious.

The issue is that there are a lot of people whose strategies, spending and business include - count as a guaranteed - that the prices will go up. Those are the ones that will feel pain if/when the price appreciation stops. (On this I'm not predicting anything esp re timing)
 

canuck78

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People are spending like crazy already and we're still not out of the pandemic. Have you been around Brampton, Mississauga, Oakville? Heck even downtown Toronto you see bars filled and weddings going on like no tomorrow. There has been a huge wealth accumulation by segments of the GTA/GVA and quite frankly, this wealth is here to stay. If you really think housing will ever come down in GTA/GVA, you'll just miss out on gains in the long-term. As long as housing keeps going up, the liberal government will stay in power unless the conservatives magically elect a trudeau-type leader which is highly doubtful. Housing is a great investment driver, live off that wealth and into the retirement sunset!
We are far from normal spending. I would ask restaurant or airline/hotel. I am not sure what is going on in the suburbs but there are still public health measures in place and anyone have a large wedding is risking being a superspreader event although now they will need to show their proof of vaccination.
 

scylla

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Wealth generated during the pandemic is only due to lack of spending opportunities so I wouldn’t consider the wealth accumulated substantial.
You're forgetting about the stock market. Tons of money made there.

Although I do agree with your statement that most of the wealth accumulated has been by those who already had it. You can't make money off the stock market without already being in it.
 

steaky

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Although I do agree with your statement that most of the wealth accumulated has been by those who already had it. You can't make money off the stock market without already being in it.
You forgot about ETF and equity mutual funds.
 

scylla

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You forgot about ETF and equity mutual funds.
I see ETFs and equity mutual funds falling under the general term "stock market". :)
 

piedpiper

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Exactly . I just came back from working in Calgary. Couple months moving back and will buy a place . For what $500k buys in Toronto, I can get a great place in Calgary with a yard , garage etc.
And the cherry on the top , it’s NOT Toronto.
I was doing some research on Calgary regarding jobs & housing. Looks like it is better to forget about Toronto & Vancouver.
Hello fellow immigrants. I want to get your opinions about the hard topic of the housing crisis in Canada.

If you are like me, working regular job and not making millions, you have probably already thought about buying your own place. However a quick look at the housing prices instantly informs of how impossible this project is for an average person.

For 500k you can hardly afford a very small condo unit in Toronto, that would be so small that it's impossible to imagine a normal life in it, let alone living as a family with kids. Rental prices are also constantly going up, which makes it even harder to live and maintain any reasonable financial balance. If you want to buy anything relatively good, not even a detached house, but a townhouse, you probably can only start shopping from 900k - 1kk for something really unattractive. A mortgage loan for this kind of home, even with a 10% downpayment that would be 100k (which is already nearly impossible to save up given the rental and other ongoing expenses) would mean paying to your lender over 5k monthly on a monthly basis, which is completely impossible for an average person.

How do you go about it? From my perspective it's nearly impossible to buy your own place in our new home country of Canada. And just to emphasize, it was not always like this, even in early 2010-s the prices were already high and hard to deal with, but not unimaginable.

I always dreamed of getting my own home, but right now I cannot afford even a smallest property, and I don't think that the prices will ever become reasonable because it would mean a severe economic disaster preceded by deflation. I am considering leaving Canada because of this crisis now. How about you, what are your thoughts?
Trailer/Mobile homes can provide great solution to the housing crisis. Why are they not(?) popular in Canada? Is weather the real issue?
 

scylla

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Trailer/Mobile homes can provide great solution to the housing crisis. Why are they not(?) popular in Canada? Is weather the real issue?
They only work for 3 seasons in Canada. So not a year-round solution.
 
Sep 11, 2021
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It works as long as it does, until it doesn't.

HIstorically (at least in GTA) it's mostly not been corrections by outright price declines but by time (long periods with no price gains). Quite literally, properties that saw no price appreciation and didn't get back to their last sale price for 20 years or more. (Yes, I've seen specific actual cases). The owners can't 'afford' to take a big nominal loss and so just keep paying off their mortgage, eventually getting back what they put in when they sell. Because of the long term mortgages, it's not so obvious.

The issue is that there are a lot of people whose strategies, spending and business include - count as a guaranteed - that the prices will go up. Those are the ones that will feel pain if/when the price appreciation stops. (On this I'm not predicting anything esp re timing)
For those getting in the past few years, sure. But for someone who has bought pre-2015/2010, like I've mentioned, even a 50% drop in prices means I still don't break even and make a huge profit. There is a lot of wealth made during the pandemic through stock market, real estate and reduced spending earlier in the pandemic. But now, people are spending, travelling more, and heck, people are splurging on weddings (100k+). I never could afford to travel business class but now with the stock market gains, real estate gains and investments, business class travel is affordable. This is not a solo story but tons of people in the GTA/GVA. There has been a huge wealth shift and it is in the interests of people in these areas of GTA/GVA to keep having house prices rise with the Liberal government hand-in-hand helping
 
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Sep 11, 2021
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We are far from normal spending. I would ask restaurant or airline/hotel. I am not sure what is going on in the suburbs but there are still public health measures in place and anyone have a large wedding is risking being a superspreader event although now they will need to show their proof of vaccination.
Just head around the GTA on a normal weekend and you'll see the 500-600 people weddings/reception happening. And half the halls aren't even checking vaccine status, they could care less.