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Hot news-Pre-clearance bill would give U.S. border agents in Canada new powers

Natan

Hero Member
May 22, 2015
496
83
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pre-clearance-border-canada-us-1.3976123

"A Canadian going to the U.S. through a pre-clearance area [on Canadian soil] can say: 'I don't like the way [an interview is] going and I've chosen not to visit your country.' And they can just turn around and walk out.

"Under the new proposed bill, they wouldn't be able to walk out. They can be held and forced to answer questions, first to identify themselves, which is not so offensive, but secondly, to explain the reasons for leaving, and to explain their reasons for wanting to withdraw,"

"...'I'll tell you why I don't want to answer any more questions and then I'm leaving.' Well, the problem is, if that person tries to leave, then they can be charged with failing to co-operate, which under this bill is an offence they can be arrested for, and then charged and given a federal record."

Under the existing law, a strip search can only be conducted by a Canadian officer, though a U.S. officer can be present. Greene points out C-23 says if a Canadian officer is unavailable or unwilling, the U.S. officer can conduct the search.

"So you could have a circumstance where the Canadian officer says, 'No I don't think a search is warranted here. I'm not willing to do it.' But the U.S. officer just says, 'Fine, we're going to do it anyway.'"
 

Panda_Bear

Full Member
Jan 8, 2017
29
4
I do not see why anyone is upset that people who do not meet the PR residency requirement will not be allowed to enter Canada. This should have been the law from day one. It serves honest people and keeps the scam bags out of the country.

Canada is a fantastic country due to peace, order and good government... and our symbol is the beaver since the country was built by hard working immigrants... to maintain this culture we need to make sure we bring only the good ones (i.e. honest, hard working people)... the country where I was born has terrible corruption, no real democracy etc. I am happy that Canada is not like that. I am also realistic and I understand no country is perfect since we humans are not perfect... but Canada is certainly the best. So let us keep it like that.
 

Natan

Hero Member
May 22, 2015
496
83
Panda_Bear said:
I do not see why anyone is upset that people who do not meet the PR residency requirement will not be allowed to enter Canada. This should have been the law from day one. It serves honest people and keeps the scam bags out of the country.
CBSA border guards are not educated with the legal and judicial training required to provide legal due process. Granting CBSA border guards the power to be judge and jury in the adjudication of PR status, is to deny permanent residents due process of law.

Panda_Bear said:
the country where I was born has terrible corruption, no real democracy etc
Due process of law is one of the cornerstones of liberal democracy.
 

Godzilla9

Hero Member
Sep 22, 2012
481
112
Natan said:
CBSA border guards are not educated with the legal and judicial training required to provide legal due process. Granting CBSA border guards the power to be judge and jury in the adjudication of PR status, is to deny permanent residents due process of law.

Due process of law is one of the cornerstones of liberal democracy.
I agree with you. Due process of law requires providing proof of certain decision to the resident and the right to challenge it, which is not possible to be done at border control. Also, CBSA is not trained to make legal decision based on limited information that is in their possession.
 

links18

Champion Member
Feb 1, 2006
2,009
129
Are there actual CBSA preclearance facilities in foreign airports where CBSA officers conduct an official immigration/customs inspection of Canada bound travelers and make official determinations about admissability etc. on foreign soil, such as exists with US preclearance facilities in Canadian airports? Or are CBSA officers only on the ground in foreign countries giving advice to airline personnel about who should be allowed to travel, but the ultimate decision is the airline's to make?
 

links18

Champion Member
Feb 1, 2006
2,009
129
Godzilla9 said:
I agree with you. Due process of law requires providing proof of certain decision to the resident and the right to challenge it, which is not possible to be done at border control. Also, CBSA is not trained to make legal decision based on limited information that is in their possession.
Right, border guards are ill equipped to navigate the legal possibilities involved in a RO case right there at the border. We all saw the chaos that ensued when a certain country decided not to let certain PRs back in a few weeks ago.
 

Panda_Bear

Full Member
Jan 8, 2017
29
4
The current system wastes a lot of taxpayer money on investigating scam bags who then disappear before deportation... time to introduce a system that works for honest people instead of scam bags.
 

canvis2006

Champion Member
Dec 27, 2009
2,383
309
Toronto
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Paris, France
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make it more like Europe/Schengen........if u r a citizen or PR, u pass right thru and not be sent into secondary.
Only random inspections if u go thru green channel
 

Godzilla9

Hero Member
Sep 22, 2012
481
112
Panda_Bear said:
The current system wastes a lot of taxpayer money on investigating scam bags who then disappear before deportation... time to introduce a system that works for honest people instead of scam bags.
This process can create issues to not only scam bags. I graduated from a US university, and since graduation I traveled to the US many times. Twice I was stopped for additional check-up. When it happened the second time, I asked why I was stopped and they said that red flag came out on the screen of Passport officer, it was related to my education. Their system said that I did not graduate. I responded that 1) I graduated and I have a proof, and (2) how does my graduation have anything to do with passport control. They responded that it's not an issue, but when passport officer sees redflag they do not investigate as they don't have time, they send me to additional investigation room, where they realise that this was a minor issue and I can go. I sent mail to US Border and University, and the US Border service confirmed several months later that they fixed their issue in their system. Needless to say that I missed my flights, and once because of this my airline got confused and did not deliver my bag correctly, and I ended up going to an important meeting in jeans and t-shirt. These kind of cases happen, there could be worse cases where delays or denial to let you go have nothing to do with the traveler. Worse is when this happens at your way back home, when you are not allowed to return.

This whole thing reminds me what is currently happening in Philippines where the new president kills drug dealers on streets without investigation. Yes, they will have less drug issues this way compared to proper due process, BUT is it the right way to do things in a democratic country. There are so many mistakes, and because of scammers some good people suffer.
 

ht7

Star Member
Jun 16, 2015
102
10
Category........
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Panda_Bear said:
I do not see why anyone is upset that people who do not meet the PR residency requirement will not be allowed to enter Canada. This should have been the law from day one. It serves honest people and keeps the scam bags out of the country.

Canada is a fantastic country due to peace, order and good government... and our symbol is the beaver since the country was built by hard working immigrants... to maintain this culture we need to make sure we bring only the good ones (i.e. honest, hard working people)... the country where I was born has terrible corruption, no real democracy etc. I am happy that Canada is not like that. I am also realistic and I understand no country is perfect since we humans are not perfect... but Canada is certainly the best. So let us keep it like that.

I will rather have a 1000 'scam bags' enter rather than 1 innocent person denied entry because their previous entry was not recorded correctly or some other goof up by the government. If you don't believe in innocence until proven guilty, maybe you should move to a dictatorship.
 

links18

Champion Member
Feb 1, 2006
2,009
129
ht7 said:
I will rather have a 1000 'scam bags' enter rather than 1 innocent person denied entry because their previous entry was not recorded correctly or some other goof up by the government. If you don't believe in innocence until proven guilty, maybe you should move to a dictatorship.
People who don't like democratic values could always move south of the border. They better not be from certain countries though.......