HIV positive and worried about my chances of being selected

[Nibson2000]

Hi everyone.
I was diagnosed HIV positive 8 years ago and I have been on treatment since then. I have been adherent to treatment and my CD4 count is always on a rise with last reading being 1200 done on the 17th of July 2018.
I wish to immigrate to Canada through express entry and I'm very worried about what conclusions might be drawn from the medical exams.
I am yet to start the application process.
Please any advice on what I should be aware of, regarding my medical condition and Express entry?
Thanks

 

[zohebshaikh]

Hi everyone.
I was diagnosed HIV positive 8 years ago and I have been on treatment since then. I have been adherent to treatment and my CD4 count is always on a rise with last reading being 1200 done on the 17th of July 2018.
I wish to immigrate to Canada through express entry and I'm very worried about what conclusions might be drawn from the medical exams.
I am yet to start the application process.
Please any advice on what I should be aware of, regarding my medical condition and Express entry?
Thanks

One of the things you need to know is that after getting the Invitation to Apply (ITA), you are required to do a medical test before filing your application for PR. The medical tests specifically for TB, Syphilis, HIV, besides physical examination.

The other thing you need to know is that the medical seeks to safeguard the health of Canadian Residents (from infectious diseases) and the government from excessive demand on their health services in Canada.

What you are likely to run into is the 'excessive demand on health services' concern the Canadian Government will have. You will most likely receive a fairness letter on medical inadmissibility based on your HIV status.

Check this post for an idea on the fairness letter you may receive: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/hiv-medical-inadmissibility.215325/#post-3202360

You may also want to search this forum using the term 'HIV' for other posts and replies. Good Luck.

 

[Outworld]

One of the things you need to know is that after getting the Invitation to Apply (ITA), you are required to do a medical test before filing your application for PR. The medical tests specifically for TB, Syphilis, HIV, besides physical examination.

The other thing you need to know is that the medical seeks to safeguard the health of Canadian Residents (from infectious diseases) and the government from excessive demand on their health services in Canada.

What you are likely to run into is the 'excessive demand on health services' concern the Canadian Government will have. You will most likely receive a fairness letter on medical inadmissibility based on your HIV status.

Check this post for an idea on the fairness letter you may receive: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/hiv-medical-inadmissibility.215325/#post-3202360

You may also want to search this forum using the term 'HIV' for other posts and replies. Good Luck.

Why should he receive fairness letter if currently Canada tripled threshold for inadmissibility?

 

[vensak]

Why should he receive fairness letter if currently Canada tripled threshold for inadmissibility?

It is simple.
You are not evaluated on a cost that you have currently in your home country. You are evaluated against:
1. Cost for such treatment in Canada
2. And any future costs that may occur next 10 years.

In your case you have an illness that so far is not curable. Also patients do not dies from illness itself but from the side effects of it - a collapse of an immune system when attacked by other aggressive illness.
Also as the time progress, you will require more and more aggressive treatments.
And unlike many other illnesses, it is very hard to predict what organ failure might happen (it would all depend which other bacteria or virus can come by and attack your body).
So they will simply compare you to a similar cases with similar blood results and the average of possible scenarios.
That is why procedural fairness letter is almost certain for you.

 

[Nibson2000]

Hi
Thank you all for the quick responses. I don't understand what you mean by currently Canada tripled threshold for inadmissibility. Please help me explain further.
I am yet to begin the express entry process. But I want to be certain I have done enough enquiries with respect to my HIV status and applying for express entry.
Thank you so much

 

[hamgha]

Hi
Thank you all for the quick responses. I don't understand what you mean by currently Canada tripled threshold for inadmissibility. Please help me explain further.
I am yet to begin the express entry process. But I want to be certain I have done enough enquiries with respect to my HIV status and applying for express entry.
Thank you so much

Threshold for how much a disease would cost their system.

 

[Outworld]

It is simple.
You are not evaluated on a cost that you have currently in your home country. You are evaluated against:
1. Cost for such treatment in Canada
2. And any future costs that may occur next 10 years.

In your case you have an illness that so far is not curable. Also patients do not dies from illness itself but from the side effects of it - a collapse of an immune system when attacked by other aggressive illness.
Also as the time progress, you will require more and more aggressive treatments.
And unlike many other illnesses, it is very hard to predict what organ failure might happen (it would all depend which other bacteria or virus can come by and attack your body).
So they will simply compare you to a similar cases with similar blood results and the average of possible scenarios.
That is why procedural fairness letter is almost certain for you.

I think you are not familiar with recent changes regarding tripling the threshold for medical inadmissibility rules.
Now it is 19000 cad per year.
Most antiretroviral medicine treatment for HIV provided they are generic cost less than 4000-6000 CAd per year. And if there is no TB or Hepatitis C or B or any other pathologies of organs or AIDS the treatment cost wouldn't cause excessive demand.
I advise you to get to know updates of Canadian policy regarding medical inadmissibility then respond to forumites' questions.
Cheers

 

[vensak]

I think you are not familiar with recent changes regarding tripling the threshold for medical inadmissibility rules.
Now it is 19000 cad per year.
Most antiretroviral medicine treatment for HIV provided they are generic cost less than 4000-6000 CAd per year. And if there is no TB or Hepatitis C or B or any other pathologies of organs or AIDS the treatment cost wouldn't cause excessive demand.
I advise you to get to know updates of Canadian policy regarding medical inadmissibility then respond to forumites' questions.
Cheers

Yes I am pretty aware that the threshold is higher now. As you can see nowhere in my post I was mentioning specific sum.
However it is still true, that they will do simulation for 5 years in the future in order to calculate possible costs. There is no medicine that could treat the illness itself. The only offered thing are medicaments that helps to increase the life span and postpone the progress of the illness itself.
it is also true that you will not die from having HIV itself, but rather from the lack of the antibodies in your system.
The biggest problem of this virus is that it is a random lottery what can be fatal in such case.
So what they will do is following.
1. they will check his current state and progression of illness itself.
2. they will compare it with current statistics and lifespan of patients in similar stage.
3. they will project it into the future and compare it with a statistics of such patients 10 years later
4. They will include not just medicaments itself but a possible testing and doctors visits together with statistics of potential complications.
And depending on those statistics (that might include estimated complications), they will or will not accept that person.
Also PFL itself can be still appealed but in that case it is on the applicant to put down all the evidence pointing that the needed medical care will be less than the current threshold.

Funny enough people with previously cured TB or hepatitis B have no problem to immigrate to Canada. People with HIV can have. The simple reason is that TB and certain type of hepatitis are curable unlike HIV.

 

[Outworld]

Yes I am pretty aware that the threshold is higher now. As you can see nowhere in my post I was mentioning specific sum.
However it is still true, that they will do simulation for 5 years in the future in order to calculate possible costs. There is no medicine that could treat the illness itself. The only offered thing are medicaments that helps to increase the life span and postpone the progress of the illness itself.
it is also true that you will not die from having HIV itself, but rather from the lack of the antibodies in your system.
The biggest problem of this virus is that it is a random lottery what can be fatal in such case.
So what they will do is following.
1. they will check his current state and progression of illness itself.
2. they will compare it with current statistics and lifespan of patients in similar stage.
3. they will project it into the future and compare it with a statistics of such patients 10 years later
4. They will include not just medicaments itself but a possible testing and doctors visits together with statistics of potential complications.
And depending on those statistics (that might include estimated complications), they will or will not accept that person.
Also PFL itself can be still appealed but in that case it is on the applicant to put down all the evidence pointing that the needed medical care will be less than the current threshold.

Funny enough people with previously cured TB or hepatitis B have no problem to immigrate to Canada. People with HIV can have. The simple reason is that TB and certain type of hepatitis are curable unlike HIV.

I have already mentioned how they do that not just general information.
They look for hep b and c in patients with HiV also Tb and CD4 and Viral load( this is concrete not a general abstract information)
If CD4 cells are above 500 and VL is undetectable and there are no comorbitities and the patient is on generic medicines that wouldn't cause a problem to fall within 19000 yearly.
Of course patients with TB or HepB have easy pass through because they are curable.

 

[Nibson2000]

Hi
Thanks so much for the updates. I'm so grateful.

 

[zohebshaikh]

I have already mentioned how they do that not just general information.
They look for hep b and c in patients with HiV also Tb and CD4 and Viral load( this is concrete not a general abstract information)
If CD4 cells are above 500 and VL is undetectable and there are no comorbitities and the patient is on generic medicines that wouldn't cause a problem to fall within 19000 yearly.
Of course patients with TB or HepB have easy pass through because they are curable.

TB & Syphilis are tested as they are infectious, and TB patients are allowed once they have been treated.

HIV is not infectious, but is tested on the grounds of 'excessive demand on healthcare'. This is done because basis their evaluation of burden, which like @vensak rightly stated, is not just HIV by itself but HIV's ability to make the person susceptible to various other non-HIV infections and complications, much more regularly than an otherwise non-HIV person.

The excessive demand calculation is (like insurance) basis an assumption that most immigrants may not require as much healthcare. However, with HIV+ immigrants almost all will be dependant on their healthcare system and they may not want that irrespective of our calculations and reasonable arguments.

Why do you think they are still testing for HIV if the costs are not really a concern as is being argued ? If they didn't have any problem allowing HIV+ applicants they would just stop testing for it. But they have not irrespective of the argued lack of "excessive demand".

We may wish it to be what we want, and we may be right too. However, have you considered the possibility that the "excessive demand on health services" tag may just be a more legally acceptable reason to deny entry to those they may not want there ?

However, one must try and not give up unless refused by CIC. Good Luck.

 

[Outworld]

TB & Syphilis are tested as they are infectious, and TB patients are allowed once they have been treated.

HIV is not infectious, but is tested on the grounds of 'excessive demand on healthcare'. This is done because basis their evaluation of burden, which like @vensak rightly stated, is not just HIV by itself but HIV's ability to make the person susceptible to various other non-HIV infections and complications, much more regularly than an otherwise non-HIV person.

The excessive demand calculation is (like insurance) basis an assumption that most immigrants may not require as much healthcare. However, with HIV+ immigrants almost all will be dependant on their healthcare system and they may not want that irrespective of our calculations and reasonable arguments.

Why do you think they are still testing for HIV if the costs are not really a concern as is being argued ? If they didn't have any problem allowing HIV+ applicants they would just stop testing for it. But they have not irrespective of the argued lack of "excessive demand".

We may wish it to be what we want, and we may be right too. However, have you considered the possibility that the "excessive demand on health services" tag may just be a more legally acceptable reason to deny entry to those they may not want there ?

However, one must try and not give up unless refused by CIC. Good Luck.

The reason I commented is that according to the new rules which tripled the threshold for excessive demand will likely consider HIV positive persons eligible for PR.
People living with HIV would not cause excessive demand aymore if there were no comorbitities like Hep C or AIDS.
I have got an impression that many people are against people who live with HIV to get PR you guys seem to be against Canadian values.
Because what you say contradicts the rules.
We need time to see.

 

[zohebshaikh]

I have got an impression that many people are against people who live with HIV to get PR you guys seem to be against Canadian values.
Because what you say contradicts the rules.
We need time to see.

It is sad that you get that impression, which definitely is not why so many respected members have chosen to share their learnings & knowledge. No one has said anything to lead to your impression that "many people are against people who live with HIV to get PR you guys seem to be against Canadian values".

All the responses above were to make @Nibson2000 aware as requested:

Please any advice on what I should be aware of, regarding my medical condition and Express entry?

It does not seem like anyone here wants to discourage Nibson from applying as you seem to infer. Why will anyone take the time and effort to respond to this thread if that was the case !

On the contrary all the responses above have been to support him to prepare for a response to the most likely 'fairness letter' which Nibson needs to know of and be prepared to respond to. Not wanting to look at what one does not like, will harm more than help !

You also seem to have also missed the last line of my post:

However, one must try and not give up unless refused by CIC. Good Luck.

Good Luck & Peace !

 

[Outworld]

It is sad that you get that impression, which definitely is not why so many respected members have chosen to share their learnings & knowledge. No one has said anything to lead to your impression that "many people are against people who live with HIV to get PR you guys seem to be against Canadian values".

All the responses above were to make @Nibson2000 aware as requested:



It does not seem like anyone here wants to discourage Nibson from applying as you seem to infer. Why will anyone take the time and effort to respond to this thread if that was the case !

On the contrary all the responses above have been to support him to prepare for a response to the most likely 'fairness letter' which Nibson needs to know of and be prepared to respond to. Not wanting to look at what one does not like, will harm more than help !

You also seem to have also missed the last line of my post:


Good Luck & Peace !

Under absolutely no circumstances did I underestimate the opinions of the respected members of The forum.
What I was saying that according to the new rules he may be not have to get fairness letter.
And HIV testing is not done only for the assessment of probable healthcare burden but also to inform appropriate healthcare facilities who deals with people living with HIV.
Nibsons CD4 counts are quit high and his viral load is undetectable. Because of that he is far from being susceptible to so called opportunistic infections. I am a medical doctor and know what I am talking about. Not necessarily all respected membera are doctors
And if he has not got TB or Hepatitis or other comorbities and getting generic version of ART treatment he is unlikely to cause excessive demand according to the new rules. Usually generic versions of medicine if they are taken once daily cost 4000-7000 annually with all analysis; thus, it is below the promised 19000 CAD per year.
Thank you

 

[zohebshaikh]

Not necessarily all respected membera are doctors

Could not resist a cheeky reply (to your above dig at our respected members). Not necessarily all "doctors" are Canada immigration experts like our respected members here