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Help needed(possible misrepresentation?): Can my PR be revoked when I apply for citizenship?

Han

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What happens if they accuse someone of misrepresentation in their PR application during their citizenship application?

@Han & @badar14 Please share your views. Thanks!
If they can prove your misrepresentation/fraud, they can revoke your PR. They will need to prove it in court (It won't be easy and they don't bother to go to court, etc). I have never hear of such a thing so I assume it is extremely rare. Relax! You didn't do anything wrong. These sort of mistakes (I still think you did the right thing based on your story) are not considered misrepresentation.

A real misrepresentation is when someone, for example, makes a fake PR card and COPR and tries to get citizenship ... or that sort of serious fraud!!
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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It appears, as others have asserted, this is NOT a situation for which misrepresentation might be suspected, let alone prosecuted.

For clarification, however, at the risk of inciting further overthinking:

IRCC can revoke a PR's status for misrepresentation at any time. Misrepresentation for the purpose of obtaining entry into Canada, or status in Canada, is a grounds for deeming a PR inadmissible. No court proceeding is necessary. There is, however, a formal procedure and generally the bar for bringing such proceedings is quite high, ordinarily involving overt, blatant fraud. In particular, just because a PR has made a representation of fact later seen to not be true is rarely pursued as misrepresentation. Indeed, many if not most immigrants make mistakes of fact along the way, and IRCC is well familiar with this and does not seek to penalize immigrants for such errors . . . be they due to a misunderstanding of the question, the facts, or an oversight, or other misstatements not overtly intended to deceive.

However, misrepresentation may also be prosecuted criminally, in which case that would involve a formal charge in the appropriate court.

Moreover, a misrepresentation in the process of becoming a Canadian PR can also be grounds to revoke citizenship . . . forever. A recent citizenship revocation case was based on misrepresentations made in the early 1950s.
 

Han

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Feb 24, 2014
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It appears, as others have asserted, this is NOT a situation for which misrepresentation might be suspected, let alone prosecuted.

For clarification, however, at the risk of inciting further overthinking:

IRCC can revoke a PR's status for misrepresentation at any time. Misrepresentation for the purpose of obtaining entry into Canada, or status in Canada, is a grounds for deeming a PR inadmissible. No court proceeding is necessary. There is, however, a formal procedure and generally the bar for bringing such proceedings is quite high, ordinarily involving overt, blatant fraud. In particular, just because a PR has made a representation of fact later seen to not be true is rarely pursued as misrepresentation. Indeed, many if not most immigrants make mistakes of fact along the way, and IRCC is well familiar with this and does not seek to penalize immigrants for such errors . . . be they due to a misunderstanding of the question, the facts, or an oversight, or other misstatements not overtly intended to deceive.

However, misrepresentation may also be prosecuted criminally, in which case that would involve a formal charge in the appropriate court.

Moreover, a misrepresentation in the process of becoming a Canadian PR can also be grounds to revoke citizenship . . . forever. A recent citizenship revocation case was based on misrepresentations made in the early 1950s.
Hmmmm ... I thought that you have the right to challenge the decision (revoking PR/citizenship) and for that there has to be a court.

The "no court" law for revoking citizenship was the last law which is changed by Trudeau's government, am I wrong?
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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Hmmmm ... I thought that you have the right to challenge the decision (revoking PR/citizenship) and for that there has to be a court.

The "no court" law for revoking citizenship was the last law which is changed by Trudeau's government, am I wrong?
There is a difference in procedure for terminating PR status, for inadmissibility (and a misrepresentation in obtaining entry into Canada is grounds for finding a PR inadmissible) and the procedure for revoking citizenship. As I clearly stated in my earlier post, the former, terminating PR status, does NOT require any proceeding in a court. (Albeit, affected PRs have a right of appeal to the IAD, and thereafter may request leave for judicial review.)

In contrast, the procedure for revoking citizenship does involve court proceedings, is more complicated, and in practice the process tends to be convoluted, complex, lengthy, and requires the government meet a high bar (even though technically the burden of proof is no greater, the courts tend to elevate the nature and degree of scrutiny). Make no mistake, however, as unusual as it was to revoke citizenship in the past, it has become more common in the last decade. (Perhaps the most common misrepresentation leading to the revocation of citizenship these days is undisclosed criminality, misrepresentation by omission, either in the process of becoming a PR which can result in the loss of PR status in addition to citizenship, or in the process of becoming a citizen whereupon, as I recall, citizenship is revoked and the individual resorts to PR status.)

The point I made in my previous post about the revocation of citizenship was that apart from and in addition to the NON-JUDICIAL process for terminating PR status, if and when a person is determined to have made a misrepresentation in obtaining entry into Canada, even long after the individual becomes a citizen, any such misrepresentation can result in the loss of citizenship FOREVER, for as long as a person lives. And more than a few of those who have lost citizenship were citizens for DECADES.
 
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Han

Hero Member
Feb 24, 2014
777
124
Category........
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2133
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
08-01-2016
AOR Received.
08-01-2016
Passport Req..
20-06-2016
VISA ISSUED...
28-06-2016
LANDED..........
29-06-2016 :)
There is a difference in procedure for terminating PR status, for inadmissibility (and a misrepresentation in obtaining entry into Canada is grounds for finding a PR inadmissible) and the procedure for revoking citizenship. As I clearly stated in my earlier post, the former, terminating PR status, does NOT require any proceeding in a court. (Albeit, affected PRs have a right of appeal to the IAD, and thereafter may request leave for judicial review.)

In contrast, the procedure for revoking citizenship does involve court proceedings, is more complicated, and in practice the process tends to be convoluted, complex, lengthy, and requires the government meet a high bar (even though technically the burden of proof is no greater, the courts tend to elevate the nature and degree of scrutiny). Make no mistake, however, as unusual as it was to revoke citizenship in the past, it has become more common in the last decade. (Perhaps the most common misrepresentation leading to the revocation of citizenship these days is undisclosed criminality, misrepresentation by omission, either in the process of becoming a PR which can result in the loss of PR status in addition to citizenship, or in the process of becoming a citizen whereupon, as I recall, citizenship is revoked and the individual resorts to PR status.)

The point I made in my previous post about the revocation of citizenship was that apart from and in addition to the NON-JUDICIAL process for terminating PR status, if and when a person is determined to have made a misrepresentation in obtaining entry into Canada, even long after the individual becomes a citizen, any such misrepresentation can result in the loss of citizenship FOREVER, for as long as a person lives. And more than a few of those who have lost citizenship were citizens for DECADES.
Thanks for taking the time to clarify.
 
Nov 19, 2018
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@Han and @dpenabill Thanks for the help so far.

I have been looking in to the pr renewal and citizenship process and had following questions:

1. Is PR renewal application made online or by mail?
2. Is citizenship application made online or by mail?
3. Does PR renewal form IMM 5444 have any questions regarding previous non-Canadian visa denials?
4. Does citizenship application form CIT 0002 have any questions regarding previous non-Canadian visa denials?

To me it seems like neither PR renewal nor citizenship application ask about previous non-Canada visa denials and hence I shouldn't have to answer that question once again. If they ask me about my previous answer of saying "no", I can provide them with the letter I received stating I was eligible for the visa and invited for a second interview before I withdrew my application.

I am applying for a U.S. visa again, and if I do get denied this time, I don't think they'll ask about it. If they do, I'll just disclose that I was denied.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
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@Han and @dpenabill Thanks for the help so far.

I have been looking in to the pr renewal and citizenship process and had following questions:

1. Is PR renewal application made online or by mail?
2. Is citizenship application made online or by mail?
3. Does PR renewal form IMM 5444 have any questions regarding previous non-Canadian visa denials?
4. Does citizenship application form CIT 0002 have any questions regarding previous non-Canadian visa denials?

To me it seems like neither PR renewal nor citizenship application ask about previous non-Canada visa denials and hence I shouldn't have to answer that question once again. If they ask me about my previous answer of saying "no", I can provide them with the letter I received stating I was eligible for the visa and invited for a second interview before I withdrew my application.

I am applying for a U.S. visa again, and if I do get denied this time, I don't think they'll ask about it. If they do, I'll just disclose that I was denied.
The answers to your questions are easily, readily answered by simply reviewing related information at the IRCC online website and looking at the respective information for making these applications.

I cannot realistically begin to offer any useful information for someone who has not at least reviewed the application information itself.

At the least, you should begin your homework by looking at what IRCC provides at the site for "new" immigrants, and the site which provides information and links about applying for citizenship; see:

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/new-immigrants.html

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship.html
 
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The answers to your questions are easily, readily answered by simply reviewing related information at the IRCC online website and looking at the respective information for making these applications.

I cannot realistically begin to offer any useful information for someone who has not at least reviewed the application information itself.

At the least, you should begin your homework by looking at what IRCC provides at the site for "new" immigrants, and the site which provides information and links about applying for citizenship; see:

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/new-immigrants.html

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship.html
I did have a look at the links, and hence my knowledge of what forms to use. I just wanted to be sure and re-affirm what I had found.
 

frange

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May 25, 2018
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What happens if they accuse someone of misrepresentation in their PR application during their citizenship application?

@Han & @badar14 Please share your views. Thanks!
They will revoke your PR status and all subsequent benefits will be gone at the same time; such as: family sponsorship. They will put you all in a plane for back home. They always have a revocation process, it's not that easy but it exists.
 
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Broken Heart

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The answers to your questions are easily, readily answered by simply reviewing related information at the IRCC online website and looking at the respective information for making these applications.

I cannot realistically begin to offer any useful information for someone who has not at least reviewed the application information itself.

At the least, you should begin your homework by looking at what IRCC provides at the site for "new" immigrants, and the site which provides information and links about applying for citizenship; see:

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/new-immigrants.html

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship.html
Hi dpenabill,

Here is an interesting question on the same subject:
One is dual national, arrives in Canada using one passport, applies for PR declaring same passport only, and not disclosing the other (i.e for not having the passport or ID to prove it, and wanting to facilitate process).

Now is going to apply for citizenship:
1. If now decides to declare both non Canadian citizenships, would that fall under "misrepresentation", and PR could be revoked?
2. If decides to NOT declare, and is granted Canadian citizenship, will this fall under "misrepresentation", and possible revoked citizenship at later years?
3. If AFTER granted Canadian citizenship, one would declare the other non Canadian citizenship, will it still fall under "misrepresentation", and possibly would lead into revoking.

What is your thoughts on the matter? and what would be safest route?
Any other members with knowledge on the matter, pls chime in.

Thanks.
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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I did have a look at the links, and hence my knowledge of what forms to use. I just wanted to be sure and re-affirm what I had found.
To be clear, your query asks about specifics in the applications, including whether or not applications can be made online. These sorts of questions MUST be answered by looking at the applications and instructions for the applications themselves.

These are always subject to change. The IRCC information is really the ONLY reliable source for answering these questions.

If your queries were about interpretations or clarifications or about some confusion as to particular questions or instructions, that would be different. But to know whether an application is made by paper or online, see the IRCC instructions. To know if a particular question is asked in an application, go through the application. And so on.

My signature is NOT intended to be cavalier. I mean it when I say "if in doubt, follow the instructions; otherwise, yep, follow the instructions." And if you are ever inclined to NOT follow the instructions based on advice or information you got from a forum like this: make dammm SURE you know what you are doing and why and what the risks are. (Yeah, I do not always precisely follow the instructions, almost always but not always, but those decisions demand extra diligent homework and consideration.)

Ultimately the applicant is the individual who needs to know what is asked, and is the person to answer it. Even if you employ a lawyer or consultant, YOU need to know what is asked and you need to provide the answer. DO NOT TRUST a consultant who will do these for you. This is a large part of why most applicants do NOT need a lawyer or consultant for these applications: there really is nothing for a lawyer or consultant to do . . . UNLESS the applicant is someone who has some difficulty with bureaucratic procedures and forms generally, and thus needs someone to walk them through the questions and instructions, item by item. No one here can do that. For that, you would need to obtain the assistance of a lawyer or consultant (to my view, better to steer away from consultants unless there is very good and solid reason to trust one, and even then be certain the consultant is AUTHORIZED).



Hi dpenabill,

Here is an interesting question on the same subject:
One is dual national, arrives in Canada using one passport, applies for PR declaring same passport only, and not disclosing the other (i.e for not having the passport or ID to prove it, and wanting to facilitate process).

Now is going to apply for citizenship:
1. If now decides to declare both non Canadian citizenships, would that fall under "misrepresentation", and PR could be revoked?
2. If decides to NOT declare, and is granted Canadian citizenship, will this fall under "misrepresentation", and possible revoked citizenship at later years?
3. If AFTER granted Canadian citizenship, one would declare the other non Canadian citizenship, will it still fall under "misrepresentation", and possibly would lead into revoking.

What is your thoughts on the matter? and what would be safest route?
Any other members with knowledge on the matter, pls chime in.

Thanks.
Reminder: I am NOT an expert and I am especially NOT qualified to give personal advice.

And, apart from that, while hypotheticals may be useful for illustrating how this or that rule or policy might apply to a particular fact pattern, more often hypotheticals tend to be unnaturally focused on particular facts or elements without due regard for all the variables which will influence how things go in any actual case. Thus, while hypotheticals can be particularly useful for illustrating how a particular, concrete fact can (not necessarily for-sure will, but how it "can" or how it might) influence the process, they are not terribly useful in the abstract.

BUT in any event, let's be clear: any statement of fact which is NOT accurate, not a truthful statement of the actual facts, could POSSIBLY be seen, by IRCC, as a misrepresentation. And if IRCC identifies and alleges a particular misrepresentation, the POTENTIAL consequences are severe, ranging from potential inadmissibility (including loss of PR status) to criminal prosecution, potentially a stand-alone ground for denying a citizenship application (and resulting in a five year prohibition), and if not discovered until after citizenship, grounds for revoking citizenship.

While any statement of fact which is NOT accurate, not a truthful statement of the actual facts, could POSSIBLY be seen, by IRCC, as a misrepresentation, NOT every misstatement of fact will be considered a misrepresentation. In fact, most misstatements of fact are considered mistakes, innocent or incidental errors. In particular, for a misstatement of fact to be misrepresentation, there are of course additional considerations. Was the misstatement deliberate? Was it intended to deceive or conceal? Was it intended to confuse or deflect or evade? And crucially, did the misstatement regard a MATERIAL fact?

And, whether a particular fact is a material fact can depend on context. NOT ALL MISSTATEMENTS OF FACT ARE CREATED EQUAL.

Thus, the very same misstatement of fact in one case can be seen and approached and handled very differently when that very same misstatement has been made in another case. Example: One applicant's failure to disclose a three-week trip abroad may be readily recognized to be an innocent oversight, in one situation, but appear to be a deliberate attempt to conceal time abroad in another. The latter would be misrepresentation. The first, just a mistake requiring a deduction of days from the presence calculation. Same basic misstatement of fact. Very big difference in what impact it has.

Thus, there is NO direct answer for the hypothetical proffered here. There are way, way too many possible variables to even begin offering any reliable analysis let alone an assessment in particular.

I was tempted to address another example and wander into the weeds with reference to the most recent decisions in the Oberlander case. See http://canlii.ca/t/hv9mp and http://canlii.ca/t/hvzt1

That example: upon first immigrating to Canada the individual discloses his military history, and truthfully describes what he personally did while in the military, but does not provide precise details about every unit he served in while in the military.

For the vast, vast majority of individuals a failure to precisely detail each military unit the person served in is NOT anywhere near the kind of omission which would be deemed a misrepresentation (by omission) of a material fact. Personal confession: In my PR application I did not precisely disclose each and every unit I was assigned to when in the military. I am NOT worried about being accused of misrepresentation by omission.

BUT precisely this kind of omission is the specific basis for the revocation of Oberlander's citizenship, more than SIX DECADES after he came to Canada. When Oberlander was a very young man he was (1) conscripted by the occupying German Army (that is, he was not serving as a matter of choice), and (2) employed as an translator/interpreter given his background in German in addition to the local language.

NOT exactly what is typically considered war crimes conduct. But for part of the war, when he was still a TEENAGER (just 17 and 18 years old), he was assigned to do these duties with a particularly well-known and brutal unit notorious for torturing and killing civilians (described as a "mobile killing squad" in some sources and court decisions). There are NO allegations Oberlander committed or participated in any such activities.

Procedurally this case is nothing like the typical revocation case these days. The revocation proceedings against Oberlander have taken nearly a QUARTER CENTURY (they were first commenced in 1994, as I recall, and appear to have finally come to a conclusion just this month, barring any further judicial relief).

Substantively, however, with one twist (having to do with World War II cases in particular) which has been the subject of the most recent wrangling and judicial decisions, the key, underlying element hits dead center in the typical revocation case these days: a misrepresentation by omission regarding what is deemed to be a material fact.

In his case, omitting the fact that he served (as an auxiliary interpreter, with NO rank, and not actually a member of the unit) with the unit described to be a mobile killing squad known as Ek10a.

To be clear, however, and to emphasize the point, the substantive ground for revoking his citizenship was the failure to disclose precisely which unit he was assigned to during the war, even though he was a mere teenage "auxiliary interpreter," and drafted by the occupying Germans.

I do not know anywhere near enough of the details to have an opinion about Mr. Oberlander personally.

BUT I can imagine how difficult (how crazy) it would be to trying dodging the draft as a 17 year old running from an occupying force of the German army, which apparently he was expected to do.

These days the more common factual basis for revoking citizenship appears to be either the failure to disclose a criminal charge (a prohibition) or misrepresenting physical presence in Canada, albeit I believe there were scores of cases under the Harper government which were predicated on consultant-facilitated fraud schemes for meeting the PR Residency Obligation despite actually being outside Canada more than reported. It warrants emphasis, however, that the specific ground for revocation, now, in all these cases, is fraud or misrepresentation.
 
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Thanks so much for helpful responses. I have one more question, my spouse, an U.S. citizen and I, a non-U.S. citizen are both Canadian PRs and applying for my green card. Does a U.S. green card denial have any affect on the PR card renewal/Canadian citizenship application?

What if the reason for the U.S. green card denial is that they do not believe that the marriage is bonafide or accuse the applicant of misrepresentation? Will it still have any affect?

Inviting @dpenabill & @Han to answer. Thanks in advance!
 

camonia88

Full Member
Jan 13, 2019
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@badar14 This is another matter. If Canada revokes someone's citizenship and PR then where will that person go (If he is not in a dual citizenship mode with any other country)?