Help me to calculate the number of days...
- Thread starter milman
- Start date
No - your calculation is not correct. You are short a number of days.
When you apply to renew your PR card CIC will only look back at the last immediate 5 years. This means that if you apply to renew your PR card on June 30th 2015 - CIC will only include days after June 30th 2010 in your residency calculation. This means that you will lose around 60 days from the 330 period between 2010 and 2011.
Because you were away from Canada for more than three years, the only way you can collect enough residency days to qualify to renew your PR status is if you continue to remain in Canada (without leaving) after 30 June 2015 and wait until 25 May 2016 before you apply to renew. You will then meet the two year residency requirement and be able to renew your PR card.
When you apply to renew your PR card CIC will only look back at the last immediate 5 years. This means that if you apply to renew your PR card on June 30th 2015 - CIC will only include days after June 30th 2010 in your residency calculation. This means that you will lose around 60 days from the 330 period between 2010 and 2011.
Because you were away from Canada for more than three years, the only way you can collect enough residency days to qualify to renew your PR status is if you continue to remain in Canada (without leaving) after 30 June 2015 and wait until 25 May 2016 before you apply to renew. You will then meet the two year residency requirement and be able to renew your PR card.
And as scylla mentioned, if you do end up coming back to Canada on May 25, then you risk of getting reported at entry (which will result in you losing your PR), and even if you don't get reported at entry, you will have to wait until sometimes in 2016 before you can safely renew your PR card.hobbes said:Note that if you are planning to return to Canada on 25 May 2014, you are risking losing your PR status (irrespective of the validity of your PR card). You should plan to return well before 27 March 2014.
So play it safe, and come back before March 26, and don't leave after that, so you will have at least two years within the first five years of becoming a PR. This way, you won't risk losing your PR status since you still have time to satisfy the residency requirements before the completion of the first five years as a PR, AND you can renew your PR card by Jan/Feb 2015 rather than have to wait until some time in 2016.
To summarize:
1. Come back after March 26 2014 and risk getting reported at entry. If not reported, you cannot leave Canada for even a single day, then you have to wait until the same date on 2016 before you can renew your PR card.
2. Come back before March 26 2014, and you won't have issues at entry since you still have time to satisfy RO before the completion of your first five years (NOT the expiry date of your PR). In this scenario, assuming you won't leave Canada anymore for even a single day, then you can renew your PR card normally and safely before it's expired (again, without leaving Canada for even a single day).
I think I may have a similar application to make when my time comes next month.
I became a PR on 20 March 2009, my card expires on 4 April 2014.
I was planning to apply for renewal around March 30th to give myself a 10-12 day RO buffer in-case of anything that I've missed but judging by the replies to the OP on this thread CIC will only count 5 years from my renewal application date, meaning I would loose the 10 days in March 2009 I was here in to activate my residency? I was under the impression that the days are tallied from the date of issue to the date of renewal, in my case 20 March 2009 to 30 March 2014.
Paul
I became a PR on 20 March 2009, my card expires on 4 April 2014.
I was planning to apply for renewal around March 30th to give myself a 10-12 day RO buffer in-case of anything that I've missed but judging by the replies to the OP on this thread CIC will only count 5 years from my renewal application date, meaning I would loose the 10 days in March 2009 I was here in to activate my residency? I was under the impression that the days are tallied from the date of issue to the date of renewal, in my case 20 March 2009 to 30 March 2014.
Paul
CIC will look at the previous five years only from the time you apply to renew your PR card. They will not look back to the date of issue. So yes - you will lose the 10 days in March 2009 and these days can't be counted towards your residency requirement of 730 days. If you need a few more days, then apply after your PR card expires.kennykill said:I was under the impression that the days are tallied from the date of issue to the date of renewal, in my case 20 March 2009 to 30 March 2014.
Thank you guys for your answers.
But this is very stupid. If someone has been in canada for 11 months without moving, how come CIC does not count 60days???? it has not been mentioned on any document while processing application. Only that we have to be present for 2 years in the 5 years and not necessarily 2 years consecutive.
Its just like when we sign any agreement with the bank, rental etc - if the agreement is for 5 years, it should end on the expiry date - lawfully if in an agreement there no expiry date only month, it always terminate at the end of the month.
Anyway I personally contacted a law firm immigration, they did confirm that our 730 days end until the PR is valid and we can go in MAY.
I recommend that those having doubts must go personally to a reputed immigration office.
Thanks
D
But this is very stupid. If someone has been in canada for 11 months without moving, how come CIC does not count 60days???? it has not been mentioned on any document while processing application. Only that we have to be present for 2 years in the 5 years and not necessarily 2 years consecutive.
Its just like when we sign any agreement with the bank, rental etc - if the agreement is for 5 years, it should end on the expiry date - lawfully if in an agreement there no expiry date only month, it always terminate at the end of the month.
Anyway I personally contacted a law firm immigration, they did confirm that our 730 days end until the PR is valid and we can go in MAY.
I recommend that those having doubts must go personally to a reputed immigration office.
Thanks
D
The residency obligation does not start and end with each new PR card. If this is what the lawyer told you - get rid of the lawyer and request a refund. The residency obligation is a ROLLING obligation with no expiry date. It is nothing like a bank or rental agreement. Because the obligation is "rolling", this means that at any point and time after you have been a PR for five years, you must be able to look back at the 5 years immediately preceeding today's date and meet the residency obligation (i.e. have lived in Canada for 2 out of every 5 years). CIC is very clear about these rules.
Any residency days that fall outside of the five year period on the day you apply will definitely will not be counted towards your residency obligation and you are setting yourself up for a refusal and issues with renewal if you apply too early.
Also, what hobbes said is correct. If you wait until May to return, you will already technically be in breach of your residency obligation because you will have spent more than three years outside of Canada.
Again, if your lawyer has told you everything is fine, I would get a new laywer. This one doesn't know what he's talking about and is only going to create problems for you and your family. But it's obviously your choice. Good luck.
Any residency days that fall outside of the five year period on the day you apply will definitely will not be counted towards your residency obligation and you are setting yourself up for a refusal and issues with renewal if you apply too early.
Also, what hobbes said is correct. If you wait until May to return, you will already technically be in breach of your residency obligation because you will have spent more than three years outside of Canada.
Again, if your lawyer has told you everything is fine, I would get a new laywer. This one doesn't know what he's talking about and is only going to create problems for you and your family. But it's obviously your choice. Good luck.
milman, you are lucky that you have inquired with this forum. scylla and others have given you the right advice, and it will be up to you whether you still consider your PR important or not, or whether you choose to do the right thing to keep your PR.
As scylla mentioned, while the lawyer probably had your best interest at heart, he was wrong in saying that you must have 731 days by the end of the validity of your PR card. You must have 731 days by the end of your fifth year anniversary of becoming a PR, which, in this case, the period that goes from May 2 2010 to May 1 2015.
In your case, if you come back on May 25 2014, then even if you do not leave Canada for even a single day, you still won't have more than 731 days at the completion of your fifth year (by May 1 2015).
So by May 1 2015, you will have stayed from
02 May 2010 to 27 March 2011 (which is 329 days)
27 May 2014 to May 1 2015 (which 339 days)
In total, it would only be 668 days. That in itself would already constitute a breach of the residency obligation, since a PR needs to be able to have at least 731 days in their first five years. By not complying, you risk of getting reported at entry.
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-13.html#h-18
Now, let's assume you get in just fine without getting reported, and let's say you wait until June 30 2015. Because the considered residency window is ROLLING, then at the date of examination, which is June 30 2015, only days that you spent from July 1 2010 to June 30 2015 will be counted. So let's redo the calculation here:
July 1 2010 to 27 March 2011 (269 days)
27 May 2014 to June 30 2015 (399 days)
You would, in total, have 668 days within the considered residency window, and when you do submit your application on June 30, your application will be rejected, and they may even start the process to revoke your PR status.
Days outside of the considered five year window will start moving out of the considered residency window, and you won't be able to gain any extra days until you start replacing your absence in those five years. So if you come back on May 27 2014 (and enter unreported), the earliest that you can apply for PR card renewal would be 28 May 2016, by which you will have 731 days.
Nobody here said anything about the two years having to be consecutive. You just need to have at least two years in your first five years (since the day you landed). You won't have two years in your first five years (May 2 2010 to May 1 2015, NOT June 30 2015) if you come back in May 2014.
You need to come back by March 26 2014 AT THE LATEST to have any chance at all to still satisfy the residency requirements (this, already assuming you won't leave at all until May 1 2015). Delaying your return trip by 2 months would delay your eligibility for renewal by over a year, so keep this in mind.
As scylla mentioned, while the lawyer probably had your best interest at heart, he was wrong in saying that you must have 731 days by the end of the validity of your PR card. You must have 731 days by the end of your fifth year anniversary of becoming a PR, which, in this case, the period that goes from May 2 2010 to May 1 2015.
In your case, if you come back on May 25 2014, then even if you do not leave Canada for even a single day, you still won't have more than 731 days at the completion of your fifth year (by May 1 2015).
So by May 1 2015, you will have stayed from
02 May 2010 to 27 March 2011 (which is 329 days)
27 May 2014 to May 1 2015 (which 339 days)
In total, it would only be 668 days. That in itself would already constitute a breach of the residency obligation, since a PR needs to be able to have at least 731 days in their first five years. By not complying, you risk of getting reported at entry.
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-13.html#h-18
Now, let's assume you get in just fine without getting reported, and let's say you wait until June 30 2015. Because the considered residency window is ROLLING, then at the date of examination, which is June 30 2015, only days that you spent from July 1 2010 to June 30 2015 will be counted. So let's redo the calculation here:
July 1 2010 to 27 March 2011 (269 days)
27 May 2014 to June 30 2015 (399 days)
You would, in total, have 668 days within the considered residency window, and when you do submit your application on June 30, your application will be rejected, and they may even start the process to revoke your PR status.
Days outside of the considered five year window will start moving out of the considered residency window, and you won't be able to gain any extra days until you start replacing your absence in those five years. So if you come back on May 27 2014 (and enter unreported), the earliest that you can apply for PR card renewal would be 28 May 2016, by which you will have 731 days.
Nobody here said anything about the two years having to be consecutive. You just need to have at least two years in your first five years (since the day you landed). You won't have two years in your first five years (May 2 2010 to May 1 2015, NOT June 30 2015) if you come back in May 2014.
You need to come back by March 26 2014 AT THE LATEST to have any chance at all to still satisfy the residency requirements (this, already assuming you won't leave at all until May 1 2015). Delaying your return trip by 2 months would delay your eligibility for renewal by over a year, so keep this in mind.
Hi Scila
Thank you very much for the useful information. Much appreciated. We‘ll seek a second lawyer opinion.
While reading your advice, you stated that we can renew our PR in May 2016. However, our PR expire on 30 June 2015.
Grateful if you can please advice if during the period July 2015 to May 2016, we will be able to stay in Canada without a PR.
If we get back in Canada without being reported let say in April 2014, and we have a full time job in Canada, are they going to cancel our PR after the expiry date of 30 June 2015, as we would not have completed the 731 days.
Awaiting your reply.
Thank you
Daisy
Thank you very much for the useful information. Much appreciated. We‘ll seek a second lawyer opinion.
While reading your advice, you stated that we can renew our PR in May 2016. However, our PR expire on 30 June 2015.
Grateful if you can please advice if during the period July 2015 to May 2016, we will be able to stay in Canada without a PR.
If we get back in Canada without being reported let say in April 2014, and we have a full time job in Canada, are they going to cancel our PR after the expiry date of 30 June 2015, as we would not have completed the 731 days.
Awaiting your reply.
Thank you
Daisy
Your PR card will be expired on June 30 2015, but your PR status is forever (unless revoked or if you naturalize or if you renounce it). You only 'technically' need the PR card when re-entering Canada through commercial vehiclemilman said:Hi Scila
Thank you very much for the useful information. Much appreciated. We‘ll seek a second lawyer opinion.
While reading your advice, you stated that we can renew our PR in May 2016. However, our PR expire on 30 June 2015.
Grateful if you can please advice if during the period July 2015 to May 2016, we will be able to stay in Canada without a PR.
If we get back in Canada without being reported let say in April 2014, and we have a full time job in Canada, are they going to cancel our PR after the expiry date of 30 June 2015, as we would not have completed the 731 days.
Some government agencies may give you a hard time for not having a PR card, so it's probably best to take care of formalities such as drivers license, health card, college/university registration, etc, before the expiration of your PR card. They cannot 'legally' make you produce PR card to prove your PR status, but it's probably less hassles to just show it to them when they ask for it.You must show this card when you re-enter Canada on a commercial vehicle, such as an airplane, boat, train or bus. If you return to Canada in a private vehicle, such as your car, there are other documents you can use.
If you plan to leave Canada, check your card's expiry date to make sure that it will still be valid when you return. Most cards are valid for five years.
If you do not plan to leave Canada, you do not need the card.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/enGlIsh/information/pr-card/index.asp
Also, let me re-iterate once again that, if you plan to enter Canada on April, you will still be in breach of the residency obligation, and still risk of getting reported at entry. And even if you don't get reported, then you will have to wait until the same date on 2016 before you can renew your PR card (or deal with immigration at all).
If, however, if you come back before March 26 (maybe mid-March or something), then you won't run into the risk of getting reported, AND you will be able to renew your PR much earlier, maybe around March or April 2015 (provided you don't leave Canada again until then), since you still can satisfy the RO before the completion of the first five years.
Hi kkill,kennykill said:I think I may have a similar application to make when my time comes next month.
I became a PR on 20 March 2009, my card expires on 4 April 2014.
I was planning to apply for renewal around March 30th to give myself a 10-12 day RO buffer in-case of anything that I've missed but judging by the replies to the OP on this thread CIC will only count 5 years from my renewal application date, meaning I would loose the 10 days in March 2009 I was here in to activate my residency? I was under the impression that the days are tallied from the date of issue to the date of renewal, in my case 20 March 2009 to 30 March 2014.
Paul
You became PR on 20 March 2009. I assume it was the day you became a landed immigrant. Your first 5 years as a PR ends on 19 March 2014. You must clocked min 730 days residing in Canada by the end of your 5-year PR period.
If you want to give yourself another 10-12 days buffer (which is wise) then you will have to clock 740-742 days as a Canadian resident before you renew your PR no later than 19 march 2014 in order not to lose any resident days prior to that date.
You are getting good replies here. Some people are under the impression that they only have to meet the RO (residency obligation) at the time their PR card expires or that they can have from their landing until expiry of PR card in order to meet the RO but this is not true. You must meet it for any rolling 5 year period starting from the time you landed.
In order to renew your PR card, you will have to fill out the form found here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/prcard.asp If you look at it, you will see that if you spent 1095 days or more outside Canada for the past 5 years (or since your landing if it was less than 5 years ago), you will have to fill out a separate section about living with a Canadian spouse overseas, working for a Canadian employer etc. This is the RO. If you have been outside Canada for 1095 days or more, you have a problem. Therefore, you should make sure you return after less than 3 years outside and you will then have to spend the next 2 full years in Canada in order to make good on the RO again. After that, you can leave again for up to 3 if you want to.
Immigration does not just check if you meet the RO when you apply for a new PR card. They can also check and report as you enter Canada or any time you apply for something from immigration, for example if you apply to sponsor a family member. If you stay outside Canada for 1095 days or more in any 5 year period, you risk being reported as you enter Canada and due to that, you could lose your PR.
In order to renew your PR card, you will have to fill out the form found here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/prcard.asp If you look at it, you will see that if you spent 1095 days or more outside Canada for the past 5 years (or since your landing if it was less than 5 years ago), you will have to fill out a separate section about living with a Canadian spouse overseas, working for a Canadian employer etc. This is the RO. If you have been outside Canada for 1095 days or more, you have a problem. Therefore, you should make sure you return after less than 3 years outside and you will then have to spend the next 2 full years in Canada in order to make good on the RO again. After that, you can leave again for up to 3 if you want to.
Immigration does not just check if you meet the RO when you apply for a new PR card. They can also check and report as you enter Canada or any time you apply for something from immigration, for example if you apply to sponsor a family member. If you stay outside Canada for 1095 days or more in any 5 year period, you risk being reported as you enter Canada and due to that, you could lose your PR.