HELP-FSW application refused for 0213 NOC EVEN with CANADA job offer attached

[rajhar]

All,

I posted yesterday completedly worried about my application. Today, I got the e-mail stating that I have been rejected as they do not see that the responsibilities matched to the 0213 code even though I was a SAP Project Manager for Implementation with one of the largest Oil and Gas Company in the world.
To top that off, I have been working with a company in my home country and was transferred here to continue working at a higher level as an intra-company transferee, but was later offered a permanent job. I included this letter with the application but CIC made NO mention of this.
So now I'm faced with a rejected application, working here with my husband on temporary work permits and am now afraid or unsure as to whether or not I should even attepmt to re-submit the application.
The CIC did state that I have the correct NOC code for the job, but that they don't believe the responsibilities I put was sufficient.
If anyone can advise, I'd be helpful as I'm about to pay money to a consultant to help me with this.

Thanks.

 

[reachmenow]

what did you put as ' Main duties' , also looks like it was a FSW 1 application.

What was your designation in the current Job/ what were the duties mentioned in the reference letter?

LEt meknow

 

[rupeshhari]

Sounds like they only reviewed you under FSW1 and not FSW2. For FSW1 under 0213, i think they may be looking for upper management and not middle management (i am assuming this based on rejections that i read over here). I would say apply again under FSW2. If you are already in Canada, you don't need HRSDC approved job right?

Good luck. You should look to see if your work permit can be extended.

 

[rajhar]

Main duties I put --
Direct and Implement SAP system
Train organization on system use
Gather approval from internal clients for system design
Supervision of 2 junior members
Implement and develop policies and procedures for organization changes

This is just a few of my duties, there were so many more. In retrospect I should have added my performance letter from the organization to support me.

Below, I'm posting the quote from the CIC letter

"the main duties that you have listed do not indicate that you performed a substantial number of the main duties of the occupation as set out in the occupational descriptions of the NOC, including all of the essential duties. As such, I am not satisfied that your experience corresponds to NOC 0213, Computer and Information Systems Managers."

My current job is not SAP, it is sales that falls under the old 0611 i.e. Account Management but for an IT organization. This would include meeting quotas, gaining revenue etc etc... but I also sell SAP as part of the job, not sure this will help.

Again, thanks for any advice that can help out here...Yes, the application went through Category 1.

 

[rajhar]

HI,

You're saying if I'm in Canada i do not need a HRSDC?

Can anyone confirm this?

I believe that the CIC office did not even look at the job offer to be honest with you as nothing in my letter made mention of it. All they quoted on was the 0213.

Is there a different form to complete on the CIC site for FSW2?

Thanks,

 

[rupeshhari]

yes, the above doesn't look like 0213. It doesn't sound management with a sizable team and budget responsibilities.

However, you are lucky, you can apply under FSW2. Do you need any HSRDC approval (or whatever it is called) for your job?

 

[rupeshhari]

HI,

You're saying if I'm in Canada i do not need a HRSDC?

Can anyone confirm this?

I believe that the CIC office did not even look at the job offer to be honest with you as nothing in my letter made mention of it. All they quoted on was the 0213.

Is there a different form to complete on the CIC site for FSW2?

Thanks,

you have an offer of arranged employment in Canada. The employment offer should be:

* in writing,
* indeterminate in duration, and
* meet the arranged employment factor described in this guide.


That comes from http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/EG72.asp

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/EG72.asp#factor5

 

[reachmenow]

Hi ,

from your reply it looks to me that you put the original duties which you performed at your company , did you try to match your duties to the NOC Website listed ones , at least few of them.

Somtimes 0213 NOC can be extremely tricky as it related to managers so unless some responsibilities match , there are chances of rejection.

 

[rajhar]

Yes, I matched the duties to the NOC ones.
It still got rejected.
Also, I have the 3 requirements for the permanent job in Canada.
I don't know if the job needs or require HRDSC approval. How would I find that out?
I am going to take a look at the links that you sent rupeshari and ensure that I can do this.
God, this is so frustrating on so many levels.

 

[rupeshhari]

Yes, I matched the duties to the NOC ones.
It still got rejected.
Also, I have the 3 requirements for the permanent job in Canada.
I don't know if the job needs or require HRDSC approval. How would I find that out?
I am going to take a look at the links that you sent rupeshari and ensure that I can do this.
God, this is so frustrating on so many levels.

Rajhar - i think the way you wrote your duties it is interchangeable with someone at a lower level. Take "Direct and Implement SAP system" as an example. I know someone who after an year at his entry level job could writing this. So even though you could be at management level, you haven't differentiated yourself at a management level to CIC. I hope this makes sense.

 

[reachmenow]

Yes, i agree with Rupeshhari here, somehow the manager distinction w.r.t duties was not satisfactory to CIC.

 

[professional 1]

Yes, I matched the duties to the NOC ones.
It still got rejected.
Also, I have the 3 requirements for the permanent job in Canada.
I don't know if the job needs or require HRDSC approval. How would I find that out?
I am going to take a look at the links that you sent rupeshari and ensure that I can do this.
God, this is so frustrating on so many levels.

when you applied under the arranged employment offer, what was the job tittle that you have got offer for ? i mean what will you be working after you get the permanent residence visa ? and what is the NOC for that job offer ? and when they have sent you the refusal letter, have they said verbatim ( am not satisfied that you have at least one year of full time paid work experience in one of the 38 list of jobs announced by the minister, therefore, your application is ineligible.....etc) ? or they have just mentioned that they are not satisfied that your experience corresponds to NOC 0213, Computer and Information Systems Managers." ?

because they might have treated your application under category (2) arranged employment offer not (1) by matching between your previous experience that you have stated and your prospective work requirments that you will be doing according to your (AEO) because i see that they somehow compare between your ability and education and training, background, and prior work experience to
determine if you meet this requirement. and all of that is to make sure about the credibility of your (AOR).


Have a look at this link : http://www.cic.gc.ca/EnGLIsh/resources/manuals/op/op06-eng.pdf

the first point at page 31





Another question not related to the above topic : how long have you been working in canada ? if it is 2 years or more so why don't you apply under the canadian experience class category ? wouldn't it be better for you?

 

[rajhar]

Hi All,

I have gotten many responses so I'm going to answer according to the way that they came in.
Rupeshari and reachmenow - I understand what you are saying and very much agree in retrospect that what I put can be viewed at as lower or middle management vs. upper management.

professional 1 - The job title is a Client Relationship Representative - Advisory. This is what I'm working as now and would be post PR visa. The NOC for that job offer will fall under the old 6411. It is not on the new 38 list. At least I'm not seeing it on the CIC website as one anymore. The verbatim they stated is as follows :

"the main duties that you have listed do not indicate that you performed a substantial number of the main duties of the occupation as set out in the occupational descriptions of the NOC, including all of the essential duties. As such, I am not satisfied that your experience corresponds to NOC 0213, Computer and Information Systems Managers."

I don't believe that they assessed it under (2) at all. No mention was made of my job offer on the letter sent back to me. Previous to coming to Calgary, I have about 18 month experience in the role, but was performing at a high level and was asked to transfer to assist with the economic growth of the company here. This was the wordings used to the immigration when I was applying for the work permit.

I am only working in Calgary for 6 months, but I have a stipulation in my employment contract that I have to gain PR before the end of my work permit, otherwise it would be deemed as voluntary resignation of the job. I dont want to leave. This place is beautiful and I am doing very very well in my job.

On another note, my husband has also been given a permanent job offer to a different company and has been in his role for 3 months now. Again, we're both under Work Permits.

Taking all this in account, and my rejection letter -- what do I do? Should I apply under category (2) AEO, should I try to petition on the grounds of improper writing of responsibilities and attach a letter (if possible) from my old employer with regards to 0213? Should our employers assist in getting an HRSDC or LMO OR is this not necessary considering we are both already in Canada? Should I wait for 1 year as per the CIC website and apply as having work experience after 1 year (although this may complicate my job and us staying here due to work permit -- I am worried that due to this rejection if the embassy would be keen on granting work permit extensions due to this rejection). What should I do from here. I don't mind re-doing my application and paying again before I get my refund, once I know I'm doing the right thing.

Thanks everyone

 

[rajhar]

RUPESHARI - Also regarding the AEO, I would fall under :

You are currently working in Canada on a work permit. Your work permit is valid when you apply for a permanent resident visa and;
Your employer has made an offer to give you a permanent job if your application is successful.
Note: Your work permit must be valid at the time your permanent resident visa is issued.

Really really don't know why if 0213 wasn't acceptable why the job offer attached would not have qualified?

 

[rupeshhari]

I am not sure why they evaluated you under FSW1 and not under FSW2. I can't remember a question in the forms which says to evaluate you under FSW1 or 2. If there is no such question, they should evaluate you under all of the FSW categories and see if you fit any one of the categories.

hopefully someone will comment on this.