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HELP! Additional document required to support the Noc code

JellyHsin87

Newbie
Jan 30, 2015
7
0
Hi,

I have received the below email from CIC asking for additional documents to support the noc code 1111. What should I do? What additional documents/information should I provide to them? I am still not a Certified Management Accountant yet but CMA has evaluated my job responsibilities and approved my job meeting the CMA work experience requirement. I already pass my first year CMA case exam and would only be certified this coming July. Will an letter from CMA help?


DEAR XXXX,

This refers to your application for permanent residence in Canada. Please note that your file is in process and will continue to be processed at the Case Processing Centre-Ottawa (“CPC-O”) office. I am writing you this letter to express my serious concern(s) regarding your application.

I have reviewed your application in its entirety, all supporting documents, and analysis. Your application was assessed based on the occupations which you identified as part of your skilled work experience in Canada: NOC 1111 Fund Accountant from 2012-08-06 to 2014-03-11 with employer XXXX.


To date, I am not satisfied that you meet the skilled work experience requirement.

Based on the documents you have submitted, while it appears you were enrolled in the CMA Strategic Leadership Program as per the letter dated 2014-02-14, it appears you were not a Chartered Accountant CA, a Certified General Accountant CGA, nor a Certified Management Accountant CMA during your declared work experience.

As per the Human Resources and Skills Development Canada HRSDC website, NOC 1111 Financial auditors and accountants hold the title of Chartered Accountant CA, Certified General Accountant CGA, or Certified Management Accountant CMA and the applicable memberships and certifications.

Additionally, as per the duties and responsibilities included in your employer reference letter dated 2014-02-26, I am not satisfied you performed the actions described in the lead statement and performed the main duties as set out in the occupational description of the NOC 1111.

In all cases, the onus is on the applicant to establish that they meet the CEC program criteria at the time of their application.

Therefore I am asking you to submit any additional information and/or documentation that would allay my concern(s). You have 30 days from the date of this letter to submit the additional information and/ or documentation to the above address.

Please ensure that you quote the file number indicated at the top of this letter on any information you submit. If you choose not to respond with additional information and/or documentation, or if your submission does not allay these concern(s), your application may be refused:'( :'( :'( :'(.
 

jes_ON

VIP Member
Jun 22, 2009
12,092
1,422
Category........
Visa Office......
New York
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
06-May-2010
AOR Received.
13-Aug-2010
File Transfer...
01-Mar-2011
Passport Req..
30-Jun-2011
VISA ISSUED...
12-Jul-2011 (received 25-Jul-2011)
LANDED..........
03-Sep-2011
First issue - the VO has misinterpreted the NOC description.

"As per the Human Resources and Skills Development Canada HRSDC website, NOC 1111 Financial auditors and accountants hold the title of Chartered Accountant CA, Certified General Accountant CGA, or Certified Management Accountant CMA and the applicable memberships and certifications."

This is not entirely correct, and you will have to argue that the NOC does in fact include your position.

1) Employees under NOC 1111 may hold those titles and certifications, but it is not a requirement specified in the NOC.
Further, the NOC provides many job titles, those are only 3 of the possibilities.
2) The lead statement also says that "Articling students in accounting firms are included in this unit group." (That means a training contract - do you have anything like that? Try and get a letter from your employer stating that you're in in the CMA program and any kind of employer support for working towards your CMA designation; and yes, a letter from the CMA would be good too.)
3) by definition, articling students do not hold those professional designations - yet!
4) The lead statement also says that "Financial auditors and accountants are employed by auditing and accounting firms throughout the private and public sectors, or they may be self-employed."

http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/noc/english/noc/2011/quicksearch.aspx?val=1&val1=1111&val65=1111

As for the 2nd issue of your job description - what was in your letter of employment?
 

JellyHsin87

Newbie
Jan 30, 2015
7
0
Thank you for the advice!

for my letter of employment/reference letter, my company HR person has included all the key words that corresponding to the job description for NOC 1111 like the duties below:

Plan, set up and administer accounting systems and prepare financial information for individuals, departments within organizations, businesses and other establishments
Prepare financial statements and reports
Coach other accountants

Should I have the HR person writing a more detail reference letter that actually explains my duties by providing examples? and how can I argue that accounting designation is not required for noc 1111? Like should I print out the list of all job title under noc 1111?
 

jes_ON

VIP Member
Jun 22, 2009
12,092
1,422
Category........
Visa Office......
New York
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
06-May-2010
AOR Received.
13-Aug-2010
File Transfer...
01-Mar-2011
Passport Req..
30-Jun-2011
VISA ISSUED...
12-Jul-2011 (received 25-Jul-2011)
LANDED..........
03-Sep-2011
JellyHsin87 said:
and how can I argue that accounting designation is not required for noc 1111?
Tactfully. Read my first post...
 

jes_ON

VIP Member
Jun 22, 2009
12,092
1,422
Category........
Visa Office......
New York
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
06-May-2010
AOR Received.
13-Aug-2010
File Transfer...
01-Mar-2011
Passport Req..
30-Jun-2011
VISA ISSUED...
12-Jul-2011 (received 25-Jul-2011)
LANDED..........
03-Sep-2011
JellyHsin87 said:
for my letter of employment/reference letter, my company HR person has included all the key words that corresponding to the job description for NOC 1111 like the duties below:

Plan, set up and administer accounting systems and prepare financial information for individuals, departments within organizations, businesses and other establishments
Prepare financial statements and reports
Coach other accountants

Should I have the HR person writing a more detail reference letter that actually explains my duties by providing examples? and
The lead statement in the NOC is:

Financial auditors examine and analyze the accounting and financial records of individuals and establishments to ensure accuracy and compliance with established accounting standards and procedures. Accountants plan, organize and administer accounting systems for individuals and establishments. Articling students in accounting firms are included in this unit group. Financial auditors and accountants are employed by auditing and accounting firms throughout the private and public sectors, or they may be self-employed.

http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/noc/english/noc/2011/quicksearch.aspx?val65=1111

If your letter has duties that are copied and pasted from the NOC description (exactly the same), that's a no-no... you would need a letter that uses the company's own words, job description . Apart from that, i can't say anything more without knowing exactly what your letter says...
 

JellyHsin87

Newbie
Jan 30, 2015
7
0
It is not copied exactly word by word...but the duty of set up admin accounting system is included in the reference letter....should I have the reference letter rewritten? and I got promoted to senior account this month. Should I also include that as part of my additional documents to make my case stronger?
 
Dec 4, 2014
6
0
Hi JellyHsin87,

i got the same email from CIC, in addition to jes_ON point, what i also did was, included screen shoots of my NOC from the website and highlighted the points that pertain to my duties (in your case the job titles under that code and duties i guess). This is what i had on the last paragraph of my letter (Kindly note the above information support the fact that my position as a XXX falls under NOC XXX as also indicated in the preamble of NOC XXXX perform some or all of the listed duties.).

I haven't heard from CIC since though but my status has been changed to in process as of Dec 20, 2014.

I hope this helps.
 

JellyHsin87

Newbie
Jan 30, 2015
7
0
Slick and Sassy said:
Hi JellyHsin87,

i got the same email from CIC, in addition to jes_ON point, what i also did was, included screen shoots of my NOC from the website and highlighted the points that pertain to my duties (in your case the job titles under that code and duties i guess). This is what i had on the last paragraph of my letter (Kindly note the above information support the fact that my position as a XXX falls under NOC XXX as also indicated in the preamble of NOC XXXX perform some or all of the listed duties.).

I haven't heard from CIC since though but my status has been changed to in process as of Dec 20, 2014.

I hope this helps.
Hi Slick and Sassy,

Thank you for the advice! What other supporting documents have you forwarded to CIC?
Hope everything will turn out fine for both of us! Can you let me know how it goes if you don't mind?

Thanks again! :)
 
Dec 4, 2014
6
0
Hi JellyHsin87,

I included my performance review as it had the duty in question on it and also police certificate which was requested by the officer.

I will for sure keep you posted when i hear anything
 

MapleLeafCEC

Star Member
Feb 19, 2014
128
15
Category........
NOC Code......
2211/ 2134
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
24-02-2014
Doc's Request.
Twice: PCC for UK in Sept 2014 and Additional documents from work to support NOC in Nov 2014
AOR Received.
17-03-2014
IELTS Request
Sent with Application
Med's Request
09-09-2014
Med's Done....
19-09-2014
Interview........
Waived... RPRF: 06-11-2014
Passport Req..
30-03-2015
VISA ISSUED...
02-04-2015
LANDED..........
18-04-2015
Hi,

I received the same request from CIC in Novemeber. They gave me 60 days to respond and I gave a more detailed letter from my employer and also specified how my job duties align with the lead statement according to the NOC as well the some of the main duties. I got my manager to sign the letter.
Secondly I emailed my revised LOE to HRSDC (you can contact them via email) and asked them to provide you with the NOC code that best suits the job description. I then took their response (which was the same NOC code that I had applied with) and sent that email correspondence and the new LOE and explanation letter as to why I revised the LOE to allay their concerns (be specific and address to what their concern is).

Just an FYI. I got the RPRF request before they asked for additional documents. So this is just their QA procedure to make sure you are doing what the NOC stands for. They are just getting strict cos they have been under fire from the media etc about mistakes in applications.
 

JellyHsin87

Newbie
Jan 30, 2015
7
0
MapleLeafCEC said:
Hi,

I received the same request from CIC in Novemeber. They gave me 60 days to respond and I gave a more detailed letter from my employer and also specified how my job duties align with the lead statement according to the NOC as well the some of the main duties. I got my manager to sign the letter.
Secondly I emailed my revised LOE to HRSDC (you can contact them via email) and asked them to provide you with the NOC code that best suits the job description. I then took their response (which was the same NOC code that I had applied with) and sent that email correspondence and the new LOE and explanation letter as to why I revised the LOE to allay their concerns (be specific and address to what their concern is).

Just an FYI. I got the RPRF request before they asked for additional documents. So this is just their QA procedure to make sure you are doing what the NOC stands for. They are just getting strict cos they have been under fire from the media etc about mistakes in applications.
Thank you for the advice! Just want to know how long does it take for HRSDC to get back to you about the NOC code?
 

Amisnic

Champion Member
Mar 28, 2014
1,155
47
Visa Office......
Sydney NS
NOC Code......
NOC 2133
App. Filed.......
30-04-2014
AOR Received.
22-05-2014
Med's Done....
20-03-2015
LANDED..........
02-06-2015
Slick and Sassy said:
Hi JellyHsin87,

I included my performance review as it had the duty in question on it and also police certificate which was requested by the officer.

I will for sure keep you posted when i hear anything
I am thinking of being proactive and sending more info including my performance review as well as some emails where I have done things such as stopping works due to safety concerns. My employer reference letter is at a very high level and looking at the duties in my NOC code, unless the VO is in the same professions they may not know that some of the duties in the NOC are implied duties and by virtue of my position in the company I will do that as part of my role.

What do you folks think - be proactive and send them the info beforehand?
 

MapleLeafCEC

Star Member
Feb 19, 2014
128
15
Category........
NOC Code......
2211/ 2134
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
24-02-2014
Doc's Request.
Twice: PCC for UK in Sept 2014 and Additional documents from work to support NOC in Nov 2014
AOR Received.
17-03-2014
IELTS Request
Sent with Application
Med's Request
09-09-2014
Med's Done....
19-09-2014
Interview........
Waived... RPRF: 06-11-2014
Passport Req..
30-03-2015
VISA ISSUED...
02-04-2015
LANDED..........
18-04-2015
Shouldnt take very long. They replied back to me in a couple of days.

JellyHsin87 said:
Thank you for the advice! Just want to know how long does it take for HRSDC to get back to you about the NOC code?
 

xiaoyou

Newbie
Sep 10, 2014
7
0
Hi OP,
could you provide a timeline for your case? did you do MR and RRPF already?? I noticed there are some people getting this kind of emails recently.. I think it's not only your case, CIC is probably getting stricter on certain occupations?
 

BUBULIK

Newbie
Feb 5, 2015
4
0
JellyHsin87 said:
Hi,

I have received the below email from CIC asking for additional documents to support the noc code 1111. What should I do? What additional documents/information should I provide to them? I am still not a Certified Management Accountant yet but CMA has evaluated my job responsibilities and approved my job meeting the CMA work experience requirement. I already pass my first year CMA case exam and would only be certified this coming July. Will an letter from CMA help?


DEAR XXXX,

This refers to your application for permanent residence in Canada. Please note that your file is in process and will continue to be processed at the Case Processing Centre-Ottawa (“CPC-O”) office. I am writing you this letter to express my serious concern(s) regarding your application.

I have reviewed your application in its entirety, all supporting documents, and analysis. Your application was assessed based on the occupations which you identified as part of your skilled work experience in Canada: NOC 1111 Fund Accountant from 2012-08-06 to 2014-03-11 with employer XXXX.


To date, I am not satisfied that you meet the skilled work experience requirement.

Based on the documents you have submitted, while it appears you were enrolled in the CMA Strategic Leadership Program as per the letter dated 2014-02-14, it appears you were not a Chartered Accountant CA, a Certified General Accountant CGA, nor a Certified Management Accountant CMA during your declared work experience.

As per the Human Resources and Skills Development Canada HRSDC website, NOC 1111 Financial auditors and accountants hold the title of Chartered Accountant CA, Certified General Accountant CGA, or Certified Management Accountant CMA and the applicable memberships and certifications.

Additionally, as per the duties and responsibilities included in your employer reference letter dated 2014-02-26, I am not satisfied you performed the actions described in the lead statement and performed the main duties as set out in the occupational description of the NOC 1111.

In all cases, the onus is on the applicant to establish that they meet the CEC program criteria at the time of their application.

Therefore I am asking you to submit any additional information and/or documentation that would allay my concern(s). You have 30 days from the date of this letter to submit the additional information and/ or documentation to the above address.

Please ensure that you quote the file number indicated at the top of this letter on any information you submit. If you choose not to respond with additional information and/or documentation, or if your submission does not allay these concern(s), your application may be refused:'( :'( :'( :'(.
I got the same letter in Jan 2015. i applied using Fund Accountant and under NOC 1111 as well. do you mind sharing which VO sent you the email? I heard that recently a lot of applicants received same additional document requirement from the same VO.

Thank you