Guidance on BSF186 form

[akasharda]

Hi All,

I have gone through multiple threads but didnt get exactly what i was looking for about the landing papers(may be haven't tried hard enough), that too specifically BSF186 (BSF186A).

I am planning to do a soft landing with my wife and son. So, I understand I have to get the form BSF186 submitted and get a stamped copy at the customs. But, i have the following queries which need help:

1. Can I mention all Jewelry as one items with its value?
2. Is it compulsory to bring photos of the jewelry or any other value?
3. Do i have to document shirts, tshirts, shoes, pants, etc separately or can i mention them as a single item as clothes?
4. If i mention single item like jewelry or clothes, in such case, how difficult it would be bring in items in multiple phases/visits over the next 3 years (duration in which i am allowed to import things)?

Thanks.

 

[Hurlabrick]

All you neeed to know here

https://britishexpats.com/wiki/Goods_To_Follow-Canada

Note that you do NOT need to do your GTA and GTF lists on a soft landing, only when you finally land as settler (all explained in the link)

 

[dpenabill]

Hi All,

I have gone through multiple threads but didnt get exactly what i was looking for about the landing papers(may be haven't tried hard enough), that too specifically BSF186 (BSF186A).

I am planning to do a soft landing with my wife and son. So, I understand I have to get the form BSF186 submitted and get a stamped copy at the customs. But, i have the following queries which need help:

1. Can I mention all Jewelry as one items with its value?
2. Is it compulsory to bring photos of the jewelry or any other value?
3. Do i have to document shirts, tshirts, shoes, pants, etc separately or can i mention them as a single item as clothes?
4. If i mention single item like jewelry or clothes, in such case, how difficult it would be bring in items in multiple phases/visits over the next 3 years (duration in which i am allowed to import things)?

Thanks.

Caveat: it has been a decade or so since I followed landing procedures (and well over a decade since I researched this for my own landing). BUT I am posting because the response so far offered is WRONG.

This is a subject which is outside the scope of PR Obligations and should be addressed more thoroughly, and I hope more competently, in the "Settlement Issues" group of topics (I do not know that it is, but that is where landing procedures and related matters are more on-topic).

Thus, I am not attempting to provide a comprehensive response, just a correction.

In particular . . .

All you neeed to know here

https://britishexpats.com/wiki/Goods_To_Follow-Canada

Note that you do NOT need to do your GTA and GTF lists on a soft landing, only when you finally land as settler (all explained in the link)

The link appears to be one which does indeed have useful information. However, it does NOT support the statement made in the post quoted above, which again is wrong.

That is, the following is not correct: "Note that you do NOT need to do your GTA and GTF lists on a soft landing, only when you finally land as settler" . . . and actually the linked information explains the contrary. (See information under heading "What to include in list")

A so-called "soft" landing has nothing to do with how one declares goods the immigrating person intends to import into Canada.

Moreover, in reference to "landing," there is NO such thing as "when you finally land as settler" OTHER than the landing event itself, including a "soft" landing, which is the transaction with CBSA upon arrival in Canada, the date the immigrating individual becomes a Permanent Resident . . . again, whether the PR then stays and settles permanently, or the PR soon leaves (possibly even later in the same day), planning to return to Canada later to actually settle to stay (which can be up to three years later, but better to plan to make the settling move much sooner than that).

At the time of landing, the new PR, the person "landing" (again, including those doing a so-called "soft" landing), provides CBSA with two lists of Goods . . . one list of goods accompanying the PR, to be brought into Canada and left in Canada . . . and the other listing those goods which the new PR intends to bring to Canada later. The latter known as "Goods to Follow."

This, the "Goods to Follow," is an accommodation to new settlers, recognizing the difficulty of transporting all one's personal and household goods at the same time the individual is traveling to Canada to complete the landing process, to formally become a Canadian Permanent Resident.

These lists do not need to be prepared, let alone submitted in advance. BUT it is really, really inconvenient to try filling out a COMPLETE goods to follow list during the PoE transaction itself, and but for more or less obvious groups of items, like kitchen ware and utensils, personal clothing, and such, trying to do the goods to follow list from memory in a PoE setting is, well, not advised for anyone who has anywhere near approaching a lengthy list of goods.

Grouping items is OK . . . but it is typically better to individually list bigger items and more expensive items. Household decorations is fine, for example, unless that includes a rather expensive work of art by a well-renowned artist. (Linked information refers to separately listing Van Gogh's Starry Night painting.) The latter should be itemized individually.

Whether to list personal jewelry as one group item, for another example, or to list individual items of jewelry, is a personal decision, which should take into consideration whether particularly valuable individual items are included.

Again, I have not been following this process much for years, so the above is very generic and is largely consistent with the information at the link provided by @Hurlabrick that is . . . https://britishexpats.com/wiki/Goods_To_Follow-Canada

But, again, for example, I am not familiar with the particular forms or details in the forms currently in use . . . noting, however, the basic differences between the form for listing goods accompanying the settler and the form for listing goods to follow have not changed much over the course of many, many years. When I landed (again, more than a decade ago) there was no problem bringing goods to follow in multiple later trips . . . back then sometimes the border officers would just waive the stuff through (strictness of enforcement tended to vary considerably), and other times they would examine the PR's copy of the Goods to Follow list and mark off items being brought into Canada that trip. I do NOT know current trends as to how strict or lenient enforcement or scrutiny is.

Main reason for my post is that YES, the Goods to Follow list needs to be completed and logged in (CBSA stamps a copy the new PR keeps, and CBSA also keeps at least one copy -- again I am not familiar with current details about this, such as how many copies CBSA keeps, but it is at least one copy) WHEN the new PR does his or her landing . . . whether the PR is intending to then stay and settle, or if the PR plans to leave Canada soon and return later to settle permanently (oft called a "soft" landing).

 

[Hurlabrick]

Caveat: it has been a decade or so since I followed landing procedures (and well over a decade since I researched this for my own landing). BUT I am posting because the response so far offered is WRONG.

That is, the following is not correct: "Note that you do NOT need to do your GTA and GTF lists on a soft landing, only when you finally land as settler" . . . and actually the linked information explains the contrary. (See information under heading "What to include in list")

A so-called "soft" landing has nothing to do with how one declares goods the immigrating person intends to import into Canada.

Moreover, in reference to "landing," there is NO such thing as "when you finally land as settler" OTHER than the landing event itself, including a "soft" landing, which is the transaction with CBSA upon arrival in Canada, the date the immigrating individual becomes a Permanent Resident . . . again, whether the PR then stays and settles permanently, or the PR soon leaves (possibly even later in the same day), planning to return to Canada later to actually settle to stay (which can be up to three years later, but better to plan to make the settling move much sooner than that).

At the time of landing, the new PR, the person "landing" (again, including those doing a so-called "soft" landing), provides CBSA with two lists of Goods . . . one list of goods accompanying the PR, to be brought into Canada and left in Canada . . . and the other listing those goods which the new PR intends to bring to Canada later. The latter known as "Goods to Follow."

You understanding is incorrect. There IS a difference between 'landing as PR' and 'landing as settler'. Yes, you can of course do both landings at the same time, in which case you would need your GTA and GTF lists. But it is very common for people (including me) to first land to declare PR as the expiry date given to do so is usually quite short and nowhere near enough time to sell property and sever your ties with your country of origin and land permanently.

Can I perhaps direct you to the official CBSA guidance on this matter, where it very clearly states the difference in the two landings? See here:

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/dm-md/d2/d2-2-1-eng.html

Item 9 entitled 'Variation Between Customs / Immigration Legislation' about 1/3rd of the way down the page. This has been confirmed by a serving, senior CBSA officer who indirectly contributed to the wiki article I posted a link to.

Unfortunately, not ALL CBSA officers are as well informed and it has been known for CBSA officers to insist that you have one chance and one only to declare GTF and that is when you first land for PR. I personally had such an officer at Ottawa airport and disputed his understanding. Eventually, I had to use the on-line CBSA complaints form to press my case and my understanding and they confirmed that the CBSA officer was in error and I managed to do my GTA / GTF forms when I later landed as settler. I know of another poster on this forum who also had to do the same thing to get her landing as settler GTF forms processed.

IF you know for certain ALL of the goods you want to bring when you 'land as PR', then you can if you want also get your forms stamped and processed, but how can you know for certain what you might want to bring when your 'land as settler' is a year or 18 months away?

 

[dpenabill]

You understanding is incorrect. There IS a difference between 'landing as PR' and 'landing as settler'. Yes, you can of course do both landings at the same time, in which case you would need your GTA and GTF lists. But it is very common for people (including me) to first land to declare PR as the expiry date given to do so is usually quite short and nowhere near enough time to sell property and sever your ties with your country of origin and land permanently.

Can I perhaps direct you to the official CBSA guidance on this matter, where it very clearly states the difference in the two landings? See here:

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/dm-md/d2/d2-2-1-eng.html

Item 9 entitled 'Variation Between Customs / Immigration Legislation' about 1/3rd of the way down the page. This has been confirmed by a serving, senior CBSA officer who indirectly contributed to the wiki article I posted a link to.

Unfortunately, not ALL CBSA officers are as well informed and it has been known for CBSA officers to insist that you have one chance and one only to declare GTF and that is when you first land for PR. I personally had such an officer at Ottawa airport and disputed his understanding. Eventually, I had to use the on-line CBSA complaints form to press my case and my understanding and they confirmed that the CBSA officer was in error and I managed to do my GTA / GTF forms when I later landed as settler. I know of another poster on this forum who also had to do the same thing to get her landing as settler GTF forms processed.

IF you know for certain ALL of the goods you want to bring when you 'land as PR', then you can if you want also get your forms stamped and processed, but how can you know for certain what you might want to bring when your 'land as settler' is a year or 18 months away?

I see the distinction you are making . . . it is in Item 10 under the heading "Guidelines and General Information." Which apparently was published in 2010 (which one will observe, as I noted in my post, is AFTER, as I expressed upfront in a caveat, my close familiarity with importing goods as a settler from MORE than a decade ago).

It is a point and clarification well noted. And appreciated.

Indeed, even though the regulations do not clearly address whether a non-settling PR can LATER return to Canada and qualify for the duty exemption for settlers, CBSA's interpretation of the regulation as described in the "Guidelines and General Information" does state that a person who lands as a Permanent Resident without intending to settle for at least 12 months CANNOT, at that time, import goods under the Regulation which exempts a "settler's" goods from duty . . . the guidelines state:

". . . that person is considered a non-resident of Canada and not a settler, for the purpose of the Customs Tariff, and is eligible to temporarily import goods under tariff item No. 9803.00.00"​

This suggests that the "soft" landing PR should not, cannot at that time, import goods under the settler's exemption from duties.

BUT, as you cautioned, application of this is quite likely subject to variable interpretations and applications . . .

AND, it warrants some emphasis, quite likely open to error by new PRs.

Which brings up YOUR use of the term "landing."

If YOU are using the term to "land," or "landing," as a synonym for simply arriving at a PoE into Canada, that is DIFFERENT than how the term to "land," or "landing," is generally used in reference to PRs. That use would apply to every arrival, including arrival to formalize becoming a PR, arrivals to visit, and to any visitor's arrival. BUT that is NOT how the term "landing" is generally used in reference to PRs.

Used in reference to PRs, the term to "land," or "landing," is almost universally used in reference to the formal transaction in which an individual who has been granted PR actually goes through the procedure of "landing" and becoming a Permanent Resident. Indeed, older forms specifically used the term "landing" document in reference to what is now the CoPR. (While this ordinarily takes place upon a new PR's arrival at a PoE to enter Canada, after being granted PR, it can take place at an inland office for those who are already in Canada.)

There is ONLY ONE such "landing."

Yes, there is a difference between landing as a PR and arriving at a PoE as a settler. (Warrants noting that a new PR who has done a "soft" landing can come and go many times before ARRIVING with the intent to settle for at least 12 months . . . and for those arrivals, sure there is also a difference between them and arriving as a settler.)

Thus, UNLESS used as a synonym for simply "arriving" at a PoE, there is NO such thing as "landing" as a settler. (Noting too that there is NO such thing mentioned in the memorandum; it references when individuals "enter Canada," or are "coming to Canada.")

Which brings this back to the first site you linked, which makes many references to when the new PR lands or is "landing." For example, it states:

Before you land

Before you land in Canada, you should prepare two lists (preferably typewritten) of the possessions you intend to bring with you to Canada.
The lists should be:

a list of goods accompanying, that is, the goods that you will carry with you when you land
a list of the goods that will follow later​

Please note that these need to be two separate lists.​

When you land

Bring two copies of your list, one for the officer, and one for you.​

That site references the wrinkle in the process pursuant to which CBSA Customs guidelines indicate a landing PR who does not intend to settle is NOT eligible to import goods duty free under the settler's exemption, under the heading "What does land in Canada mean?" and it states:

For the purposes of submitting a Goods To Follow form, "landing in Canada" means arriving in Canada with the intention of establishing a permanent home.​

But it likewise references the memorandum for this, which does NOT use the term "land" at all. And again, generally (including in a lot of government references), the term "landing" used in reference to PRs is about the specific procedure done to formalize becoming a PR.

Nonetheless, this wrinkle probably deserves further elaboration and clarification. Beyond my scope.

In the meantime, at that "Goods To Follow-Canada" wiki page, it suggests:

If you are traveling to Canada only to land for immigration purposes it is suggested that you prepare a Goods to Follow list with your best estimates (and it is better to over estimate) of what goods you will bring when you eventually move. However, do not be surprised if a Customs Officer decides not to process the list at this time.​

(The last sentence is clearly alluding to the wrinkle presented by item 10 in the Memorandum guidelines.)

BUT for those who follow that site's suggestion, and prepare both lists, including the Goods to Follow list, it does offer a solution for your question:

"IF you know for certain ALL of the goods you want to bring when you 'land as PR', then you can if you want also get your forms stamped and processed, but how can you know for certain what you might want to bring when your 'land as settler' is a year or 18 months away?"​

The "Goods To Follow-Canada" wiki page suggests:

So, if you are not sure if you will ship a certain item, say a bed, to Canada, it is prudent to include it in your Goods To Follow list -- just in case you end up shipping it. There is no penalty to not shipping something that you previously included on your list. Recording an item on your Goods To Follow list gives you the right to ship it to Canada, duty-free, at any time in the future.​

Basically list everything you might possibly want to bring . . . an inventory of all your household and personal goods.

Concluding observation: more than a decade ago, as noted in my previous post, there was significant inconsistency in the way the duty exemption for settlers was applied and enforced. I suspect this continues. The wiki page likewise suggests this. As I have noted, this subject is wandering outside my usual scope, BUT it is easy to apprehend a risk that customs officers could be confused, and difficult as a result, if a new PR arrives at the PoE sometime AFTER the PR "landed," and presents these lists and declares himself or herself arriving as a FIRST time settler. My less than well-informed sense is it would be prudent to have the lists WHEN landing. If the customs officer declines to process the lists because the landing PR does not have an intent, at that time, to settle, be sure that is somehow formally noted. Those who choose to do the lists later and specifically follow the procedure for a FIRST time settler sometime AFTER the formal landing itself, probably best to research this matter some and be well prepared to explain it when the time comes.

 

[Hurlabrick]

I have always tried to use the terms 'land to declare PR' and 'land as settler' as they are two quite different instances which can either be undertaken on the same landing OR 'land as settler' later.

The 'land as settler' later (i.e. 'soft landing' first) is something that many people (including myself) do and have done. You may well come across the odd CBSA officer who is not aware of the distinction, but quite simply they are wrong. The CBSA on-line complaints form is your recourse and I personally know of two people who have used this and received an apology from CBSA and were told to return to a CBSA office to get their lists stamped.

The wiki article was created and is maintained by many different contributors on the British Expats site. I am sure they would be happy for you to point out apparent discrepancies - it is an internet forum and joining is free. I reference it here as I personally found it invaluable with my more recent experience.

 

[dpenabill]

I have always tried to use the terms 'land to declare PR' and 'land as settler' as they are two quite different instances which can either be undertaken on the same landing OR 'land as settler' later.

"I have always tried to use the terms 'land to declare PR' and 'land as settler' as they are two quite different instances which can either be undertaken on the same landing OR 'land as settler' later."​

To be clear, scores and scores of sources of information refer to "landing" regarding PRs ONLY in reference to that formal procedure for completing the process of becoming a PR. Period. Using the term "landing" (for Canadian PRs) in some other context is confusing.

Not sure why you use it differently.

Whoever added a similar reference in the wiki article cited the CBSA memorandum as a source BUT that usage is NOT at all indicated in that memorandum (indeed, it makes no reference to "landing" at all).

Many refer to a "soft" landing, and this is indeed a topic frequently discussed here. And it is generally well-understood, as it is indeed a very common practice.

The wrinkle in declaring goods to be imported appears to be an important clarification for those who do a "soft" landing. However, it is NOT addressed at all in many sources of information about the landing or new PRs coming to Canada to settle process. For example, IRCC information for new immigrants does not so much as allude to this wrinkle (but it does state to see the CBSA site for more information about declaring items). See:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/new-immigrants/prepare-life-canada/border-entry.html

Likewise, sources provided by organizations or individuals, such as the very site hosting this forum (where, again, references to "landing" are specifically about that formal procedure completing the process of becoming a PR), such as (just some examples) . . .

https://www.canadavisa.com/landing-settlement-canada.html#gs.eag4b4

https://www.immigration.ca/the-landing-process

http://www.bellalliance.ca/landing-in-canada

It warrants emphasizing these sites ONLY use the term "landing" in reference to the event during which a new PR completes the process of becoming a PR. But it also warrants noting they appear to quite utterly fail to address the customs implications for doing a "soft" landing (where the landing PR does not intend to settle in Canada at that time) . . . all appearing to uniformly advise doing both lists, that is including the Goods to Follow list, for that landing.

Which could lead to problems for some PRs. At least to some confusion. And is worth addressing and sorting out . . . albeit in the other group of topics here regarding settlement in Canada, AND by participants other than me . . . noting, again, this subject is outside the scope of what I ordinarily address. As I noted, I responded here to clarify that there is only ONE PR LANDING, notwithstanding instances of idiosyncratic or erroneous usage otherwise.

 

[Hurlabrick]

Bored now!

 

[akasharda]

Thanks all for the very detailed inputs. I tracked the discussion during the past 2 days. I do get the understanding that GTA and GTF may not be mandatory but due to the ignorance among the officials at custom, i might some difficult time with GTA and GTF.

Can i please request for guidance on the pending queries:
1. Is it compulsory to bring photos of the jewelry or any other value?
2. If i mention single item like jewelry or clothes, in such case, how difficult it would be bring in items in multiple phases/visits over the next 3 years (duration in which i am allowed to import things)?

Thanks.

 

[akasharda]

kind request to please provide a response.

 

[dpenabill]

Thanks all for the very detailed inputs. I tracked the discussion during the past 2 days. I do get the understanding that GTA and GTF may not be mandatory but due to the ignorance among the officials at custom, i might some difficult time with GTA and GTF.

Can i please request for guidance on the pending queries:
1. Is it compulsory to bring photos of the jewelry or any other value?
2. If i mention single item like jewelry or clothes, in such case, how difficult it would be bring in items in multiple phases/visits over the next 3 years (duration in which i am allowed to import things)?

Thanks.

kind request to please provide a response.

As I have previously observed, this subject (settlement issues, including importation of goods attendant immigrating to Canada) is outside my bailiwick.

I am surprised you have not received a response from those who do follow matters attendant settlement (even if the query here is off-topic, and would be better posed in the group of topics about settlement in particular). Given the lack of response, I will offer that the information provided at the link provided by @Hurlabrick appears to cover your questions as well as they can be; that is, see . . . https://britishexpats.com/wiki/Goods_To_Follow-Canada .

Beyond that: How things go in Customs clearance can vary considerably.

How much detail you put into the lists of goods, especially the list of Goods to Follow, is very much a personal decision, a decision that should take into consideration the value of the items and particular things like unique or unusual items.

The wiki site suggests, and my sense is that it is correct, is that there is no limit on the number of times the immigrant can import what is listed in the Goods to Follow, and no limit on when.

That said, that does not suggest throwing common sense out the window. For example, one can readily apprehend that if the immigrant is making numerous separate shipments of goods beyond what would be reasonably required to bring the goods to Canada, that is bound to invite elevated scrutiny and suspicion, perhaps leading to issues. But so long as the goods are clearly those identified in the Goods to Follow form, they should still clear customs without being charged duty (obviously this is subject to the rules governing what can be imported duty free by a settler).

For another example, if one is attempting to bring some very valuable items to Canada many YEARS after immigrating, and particularly if it is not definitively clear those are specific goods identified in the list of Goods to Follow, again that is bound to invite elevated scrutiny and suspicion, perhaps leading to issues.

Similarly, I doubt that photographs are compulsory (here again I defer to the wiki site for information regarding this), but obviously if there is any question later, and photographs are used in this context, photographs can be a big help later verifying the identity of particular items, verifying they are the specific items listed in the Goods to Follow. Again, the more valuable or distinctive the item, the more important it could be to have solid verification it is an item in the list. Again, the later in time the immigrant is attempting to import the items, the more important it could be to have solid verification those particular items are those listed.

Moreover, this is one of those subjects for which the vast majority of immigrants rarely need to get too bogged down with. The basic rules plus common sense suffice. Not that complicated. So, if for a particular individual there appears to be a more complicated issue, that suggests that individual needs to do some homework, as in going to and carefully reading authoritative sources (starting with the CBSA site). FAQ style questions and answers generally fail to adequately address more complicated matters.