Going on Vacation with Expired Pr card
- Thread starter Great Sage
- Start date
I keep seeing this land border in a private vehicle thing.
Is this believed to be a reliable route? Are border agents generally OK?
Really appreciate the replies so far.
Is this believed to be a reliable route? Are border agents generally OK?
Really appreciate the replies so far.
No, they are not more lenient at the land borders. In fact, the officers at the land border are more likely to be uncouth and hostile than at the airports.
I believe it's airlines who refuse to take you on board. They can't ask you for eTA, because you are Canadian PR. And without Canadian PR card, they have no way of knowing if they can carry you into Canada and avoid taking you back (should they take you to Canada and Canadian customs refuse to admit, airline must carry the burden of flying you back to your point of origin). The whole thing is really stupid and convoluted. With all these crazy restrictions on travel of PRs (who had to pass multiple security/police/background checks to get the PR status), they have our Southern borders wide open to anyone who wishes to come from any part of the world, claiming asylum or just running across without detection. And they bring planeloads of unknown people from Afghanistan to Canada (there are reports that many of those so called refugees lack any form of documentation and it's impossible to run background checks on them in Afghanistan. After all, who are you going to check with, Taliban?). How does all this make sense?
Technically it's a bit different - the rules are the same: if you turn up at a port of entry, and you can establish that you are a PR, they must let you in. "Port of entry" includes international airports.
BUT: you can't get to the ports of entry at the airport unless you can get on a plane. And you can't get on the plane without the PR card or PRTD.
I know this seems peculiar. Somebody could write a boring thesis about it - won't change the facts on the ground for you. Let's say it's an unintended feature of being a quasi-island (from an international travel perspective) plus some history and laws and regs that make it work this way. I suspect that any citizen of the UK familiar with, say, the Isle of Man would grasp that history and geography can lead to some weird arrangements.
Without any knowledge about the travelling-in-USA side of things: yes, it's a real thing at the Canadian border. Doesn't really matter if the border guards are generally ok (although they generally are).
By law, a PR identified as such (the legal formulation is who can satisfy the border officers that they are a PR - and documents like you have will do so) shall be admitted. 'Shall' is as strong as this type of thing gets in legislative language.
If you're in compliance with your residency obligation (been in Canada 730 days of the last five years?), that's pretty much it.
I think I get it. It's not the PR card per se. It's proving you're a resident. But the airline will only accept PR card as this proof whereas the actual port of entry may accept drivers licence or other reasonable documents. Maybe even expired PR card. Is it something like that?
So a drivers license, proof of employment, bank statements etc will do the trick?
There are different rules at land border crossings. You can re-enter Canada with your expired PR card at a land border crossing.
Yes, exactly (although airlines will also accept PRTDs); expired PR card is about the best, plus other identification that establishes who you are.
About the border guards: look, they're police, and human beings. Sometimes people have unpleasant interactions with them.
So as always (in my experience anyway), just be calm and nice and explain the situation eg 'sorry my PR card renewal isn't back, I didn't realise it could take so long, guess they're backed up with covid...'. Then answer any questions truthfully.
I guarantee you won't be the first in this situation.
I really think the OP is overthinking it. There is a LOT of time till April 2022. He should be able to get his new PR card well before then.
You are not overthinking.
Governments tend to oppress and become tyrannical by virtue of having a power coupled with corruption of human nature, unless you have a generation of people like those who rose up and made a revolution in 1776, to found the opposite of traditional state: which is, by people, for the people and of the people. If you think for a moment, we live in dark times now. We are under under constant warrantless surveillance (our data on internet is being monitored 24/7, and Snowden told us how surveillance state works), with no checks, balances and transparency of those who are supposed to be accountable to us. We can not speak our minds freely (if we do, we get banned and thrown out of social media. Real facts or factual debate don't matter anymore, if you go against orthodoxy you are labeled "public enemy #1", and uniformly condemned like "people's enemy" in Trotsky's Russia). And, no wonder, some little brained bullies with badges and guns , in charge of protecting our safety and security, get a whiff of current times and assume they can do to common man whatever they want, do so with impunity and get away with it. So, there is no "overthinking" in anticipating issues or problems when crossing the border, especially if you are an honest, innocent man with no special powers, connections or extraordinary wealth. And, reading hundreds of posts on this forum from people who have been waiting for months for PR card replacement, the possibility that your card won't arrive by 4/22 is not eliminated. Which poses a legitimate question: what do I do if I want to travel to Mexico/Germany/Vietnam and return to Canada, but don't have a valid PR card in time to avoid the hassle?
But, the circumstances of your case are such that you have less to worry than you would under different set of the circumstances:
1. You are not in breach of RO
2. You hold valid PR status in Canada
3. You are visa exempt national in the US, so you can always apply for admission into Canada at land POE, and fly into US from almost any country in the world.
There is nothing border official can do to you, other than being a donkeyhole and showing his true colors. But you can either ignore it or take an issue, report things to his superiors and do whatever you feel you should do (and can do within legal framework) to make him feel the pain he is inflicting on innocent travelers. But, from practical standpoint, there is nothing they can do to stop you from global traveling and returning to Canada. It's just inconvenient for you not to have a PR card, to fly to US first and then enter Canada by foot or private vehicle (special arrangements have to be made, as opposed to hopping from one airplane into another) and etc.
Have safe travels and enjoy yourself.
I applied for renewal in July and got my card in about 3.5 months, If you meet the RO requirements with a good margin, I think you will get it by mid Dec 2021 or beginning or Jan 2022. You will have an issue if for some reason they decide to send it to the local office to pick it up in-person. In that case, you may not get it before April 2022, and you will have to make other arrangements.