Getting married - somewhat unusual relationship

[Siqz]

My girlfriend and I are planning to marry by the end of the year. She's a Canadian citizen, I'm form an EU country. I plan to go to Canada as a visitor, get married and apply inland. It may be a bit too early for the marriage, but she's just having a hard time imagining, that we would get separated again. She also doesn't want to come to Europe, because she is scared of all the recent terrorist attacks here.

We have met online about one and half year ago(it will be two years by the time we marry), met once in person for about a month. We spend at least 5 hours per day talking via video on Skype, sometimes we spend literally days on Skype call with our cams turned on, even while we sleep. I couldn't have visited more often, because my father was very sick and I needed to stay close to him.

One of the problems also is, that we are just going to have the civil marriage, without any ceremony or reception. We don't really believe in spending lots of money on wedding, we'd both be much happier to just spend the money on something useful, like a car for example. She strongly believes that spending money on the wedding ceremony is just waste of money and I kinda agree with her. Guess she never bought into the dream wedding and diamond ring thing.

From my point of view, we were made for each other, but our relationship is so different from the norm, that I'm very concerned about being able to prove our it's genuineness to other people. What can we do to make sure the process goes as smoothly as possible? What if we write a letter explaining our choices and situation and submit it with the application? Is it going to help our case?

Sorry for the wall of text and thank you in advance for any help.

 

[bk2001050]

Hello Siqz, welcome to the forum. This is a very good place for advice and you have come to the right place.

First of, its good that you have acknowledged that you might have difficulties in your application because believe me, based on what you have said you definitely will have significant problems. First off you have to understand that a genuine relationship is not enough for her to sponsor you. There are certain other requirements as well although your biggest problem will be genuineness of relationship. I need some additional information before I can formulate a solid opinion on your circumstance. This might be personal and irrelevant but believe me its not. Can you please tell me certain details about your situation for eg. your ethnicities, both of your ages, educational backgrounds and religions. Also what the sponsor does for a living, what country are you from in the EU. Also if have extensive pictures of the one month. If you dont feel like posting this stuff just message me.
This might seem too personal and irrelevant but Immigration Canada considers all these factors when the process your application.

 

[Siqz]

Thank you for your reply!
I am 30, white, I don't really want to be specific about the country, but it's one of the Slavic countries in Central/Eastern Europe. She is 23, asian, of Chinese origin. She doesn't do anything for living, as she has recently graduated from an university, plus she wants to basically be a housewife, which is fine by me. I'm a software engineer with decent experience and I plan to support us while working remotely for an IT company back in my country. Said company doesn't have any presence in North America at all, so as far as I checked, that should be legal. My formal education is a bit lower though, as I only have only attended high school.
We only have one picture from that month together. I have made a few pics of her, but I'm not present on them. We didn't think about documenting our every step back then. Although when I was visiting, I told the officer that I'm visiting my girlfriend and they even called her to confirm it, so I believe it got on the record, at least.
I also have a dependent child, but I believe my ex won't consent for the medical, so I'm going to exclude him from the application.

 

[ImABule]

Thank you for your reply!
I am 30, white, I don't really want to be specific about the country, but it's one of the Slavic countries in Central/Eastern Europe. She is 23, asian, of Chinese origin. She doesn't do anything for living, as she has recently graduated from an university, plus she wants to basically be a housewife, which is fine by me. I'm a software engineer with decent experience and I plan to support us while working remotely for an IT company back in my country. Said company doesn't have any presence in North America at all, so as far as I checked, that should be legal. My formal education is a bit lower though, as I only have only attended high school.
We only have one picture from that month together. I have made a few pics of her, but I'm not present on them. We didn't think about documenting our every step back then. Although when I was visiting, I told the officer that I'm visiting my girlfriend and they even called her to confirm it, so I believe it got on the record, at least.
I also have a dependent child, but I believe my ex won't consent for the medical, so I'm going to exclude him from the application.

Hi

I recommend you visit at least once more before you marry solely because you have no pictures together at all. Either that or come to Canada as a visitor and wait a while to marry. Extend your stay if you must. Gather evidence in the time leading up to and after the marriage.

If civil marriage is socially acceptable in your country it won't be a problem.

You will have to produce proof that your ex won't allow the medical and that you have tried. Also a declaration stating you understand that your child can never be sponsored.

Address what could be a red flag such as education differences and explain why it doesn't matter to yor relationship.

 

[Siqz]

Hi

I recommend you visit at least once more before you marry solely because you have no pictures together at all. Either that or come to Canada as a visitor and wait a while to marry. Extend your stay if you must. Gather evidence in the time leading up to and after the marriage.

I was planning to stay at least for 3 or 4 months before marrying. Suppose I showed at the border and said I wanted to stay for full six months right out of the bat. Is it going to be a problem? Are they less likely to let me in if I want to stay for that long? Is it better to tell them I want to stay for a shorter amount of time and then apply for extension? I'd prefer to be honest though, I really hate lying to people.

If civil marriage is socially acceptable in your country it won't be a problem.

We're both atheist, so there's that. My parents had a civil marriage too, but at least they had some guests at the reception after. My girlfriend has almost no friends and she doesn't talk to her family much either. My family coming to Canada is out of the question too, because of my father's health issues. Guess that's going to be a huge red flag too. I'll just have to hope that the immigration officer reviewing our case will understand that not everybody is the same.

You will have to produce proof that your ex won't allow the medical and that you have tried. Also a declaration stating you understand that your child can never be sponsored.

Address what could be a red flag such as education differences and explain why it doesn't matter to yor relationship.

The education difference is merely because my parents got sick and couldn't support me anymore, so I had to start working at a very early age. We have intelligent discussions all the time. All our interactions are mostly on the intellectual level, that's how got the click in the first place. I read a lot and educate myself all the time, I just lack the diploma. I can even keep discussing things related to her field, which is way different from what I do for living. It's rather disappointing to hear, that it's mostly black or white when it comes to judging our relationship.

 

[ImABule]

I was planning to stay at least for 3 or 4 months before marrying. Suppose I showed at the border and said I wanted to stay for full six months right out of the bat. Is it going to be a problem? Are they less likely to let me in if I want to stay for that long? Is it better to tell them I want to stay for a shorter amount of time and then apply for extension? I'd prefer to be honest though, I really hate lying to people.

We're both atheist, so there's that. My parents had a civil marriage too, but at least they had some guests at the reception after. My girlfriend has almost no friends and she doesn't talk to her family much either. My family coming to Canada is out of the question too, because of my father's health issues. Guess that's going to be a huge red flag too. I'll just have to hope that the immigration officer reviewing our case will understand that not everybody is the same.

The education difference is merely because my parents got sick and couldn't support me anymore, so I had to start working at a very early age. We have intelligent discussions all the time. All our interactions are mostly on the intellectual level, that's how got the click in the first place. I read a lot and educate myself all the time, I just lack the diploma. I can even keep discussing things related to her field, which is way different from what I do for living. It's rather disappointing to hear, that it's mostly black or white when it comes to judging our relationship.

Don't say you plan to stay for 6 months.

Civil wedding should be fine. Explain why family isn't present.

The education difference isn't a make or break situation either. Just address it in the app.

 

[just a square]

If you're planning to get married at the end of the year, you still have time to make your case stronger. Visit each other at least once, make pictures of you two together, introduce each other to your friends, family, if possible. Coming to eastern European country terrorist attacks are very very unlikely to happen - trust me, I'm from there too.

Or as someone suggested - go to Canada as a visitor (if you can work remotely and make a living that way) and live together with your girlfriend for a while before filing the application.

Make your wedding a special day - wear nice clothes, have rings (they don't have to be fancy, but it's a nice symbol), invite a few friends, even if they're not very close.

I was in a similar situation - I didn't want a formal ceremony, wanted to keep it simple and save money for our future instead of having wedding expenses. But my mother in law insisted on having rings, my friends insisted on buying a wedding cake, etc. and now I'm happy that I listened to them. When we started working on our application, I realized that all these small details made our case stronger.

You would be very naive if you think that sending application with a super simple wedding, almost no time being physically together, and having one or two pictures together would be a good idea.

 

[bk2001050]

Oh man, my heart does go out to you. I applaud you guys for finding each other in this crazy world, especially considering the chances you would meet a soul mate online.
Now with regards to your question about sponsorship and permanent residence. I firmly believe that based on the information you have provided there is a HUGE chance you would be denied, almost a certainty. Immigration Canada will flag everything you have said, including ethnicity difference, age difference, cultural and social background difference, lack of income on her part(although it wont be refused based on that, as long as she is not on welfare or social assistance), difference in education i.e you are high school and she is university, lack of pictures or time spent together(online chat logs are really no help and videos cannot be sent in as of now), parents weren't present at the wedding, civil marriage and not a big event with friends and family declaring your love for each other, no receipts of travel or receipts of money sent by her to you since she is the sponsor, your marriage or common law histories as well as your dependent child(which I know you said you would exclude but rethink this please, is this person that you have met once worth throwing away the chance to sponsor and be a part of your child's life), no cohabitation, no documents in common etc etc. The biggest problem will be lack of a formal wedding ceremony/engagement ceremony or a reception.

Personally I am with you, as I do not believe in extravagant displays or love and affection, and money would be better spent on useful things like a house or car etc. but unfortunately Citizenship and Immigration Canada will not share this view. Your application will most likely be flagged after taking a LONG time to be processed and an interview will be required where they will ask you silly and ridiculous questions like what color is your sponsors eyes or does she have any scars or tattoos and whats the story behind them, or when her parents birthdates are and what was the last thing you guys bought them for Christmas.

I wouldn't recommend coming here and applying inland just because of the complications of your situation.... for example you cannot transfer here for work and you wouldn't be able work here, at least not in your current capacity. I mean you could work a minimum wage job here but since you have high school education and your degree is not formally recognized, it would be very hard to find a software related job here unless your sponsor has serious contacts.
You have to also consider other things as well.
If you apply inland i.e from Canada, you cannot leave the country while the application is in process which is 26 months as of date, but will only increase in the next year so no going back to visit anyone or leaving on a honeymoon abroad.

If the application is denied which I strongly think it will, based on the above lack of evidence I have pointed out.....there is no appeal, nothing you can do. You will have to leave, and file for out land from your country, but it will take another few years and since she has been previously denied you will be scrutinized and interviewed very carefully.

You haven't lived with your sponsor very much so if there is a relationship breakdown or she decides to withdraw her application within the 26 month processing time, you will be in serious trouble.

You might not be approved for healthcare but the legislation regarding this is very new so I cannot confirm this. Currently it says that if you have a valid work permit and a pending application with CIC you are eligible for healthcare atleast in Ontario. I cannot confirm this for other provinces.
Remember that a genuine relationship is not always enough for this category, you have to meet other grounds like no criminality for both of you and valid passports and police records for both of you as well as she cannot be on welfare or social assistance.

Finally I would recommend the following for you guys:


Pay for her ticket to your country and keep the receipts. When she gets there open joint bank accounts, joint credit cards, joint lease agreements or ownership of property....anything indicating you guys are in this together. Put joint wills naming each other as beneficiaries with notarized dates, power of attorney, buy a car and put it under both your names etc. whatever you can do to put both your names together on paper. ALTHOUGH THIS ISN'T NECESSARILY REQUIRED, IT WILL PROVE THAT SHE IS WILLING TO RELOCATE TO YOUR COUNTRY FOR LOVE AND THAT YOUR RELATIONSHIP IS GENUINE.

Take pictures every single day you can....with both of you in them. You picking her up at the airport and giving her a big hug, going for lunch, first time meeting you dependent child and or your father for the first time, him blessing you guys, you first proposing on your knees with a ring, wedding with at least a few people/friends/family present, whatever you think a normal relationship should follow. Try to talk to her parents and family on social media like Facebook and change relationship statuses with profile pictures with both of you, perhaps on wedding day, perhaps have chat logs with her mom and dad talking to you and approving of you. BE ADVISED THAT CIC HAS BEEN CHECKING SOCIAL MEDIA PRESENCE AND LOGS AS OF 2012.

Go on a week trip since you are from an EU country and she is from Canada, it wouldn't be so hard. Take many pictures with you guys at famous land marks, with random people you meet. Maybe have your honeymoon in Europe?

Keep all receipts like hotel bookings, receipts from lunch or dinner, ofcourse all your wedding and reception receipts, receipts of your rings etc etc etc.

Apply out land, from your visa office or the nearest one since this is quicker and if you have all the above, it will be approved quickly. You might be apart for a bit until you are approved but you have already demonstrated that your relationship is genuine and continuing so you will get approved.

 

[Romania85]

My girlfriend and I are planning to marry by the end of the year. She's a Canadian citizen, I'm form an EU country. I plan to go to Canada as a visitor, get married and apply inland. It may be a bit too early for the marriage, but she's just having a hard time imagining, that we would get separated again. She also doesn't want to come to Europe, because she is scared of all the recent terrorist attacks here.

We have met online about one and half year ago(it will be two years by the time we marry), met once in person for about a month. We spend at least 5 hours per day talking via video on Skype, sometimes we spend literally days on Skype call with our cams turned on, even while we sleep. I couldn't have visited more often, because my father was very sick and I needed to stay close to him.

One of the problems also is, that we are just going to have the civil marriage, without any ceremony or reception. We don't really believe in spending lots of money on wedding, we'd both be much happier to just spend the money on something useful, like a car for example. She strongly believes that spending money on the wedding ceremony is just waste of money and I kinda agree with her. Guess she never bought into the dream wedding and diamond ring thing.

From my point of view, we were made for each other, but our relationship is so different from the norm, that I'm very concerned about being able to prove our it's genuineness to other people. What can we do to make sure the process goes as smoothly as possible? What if we write a letter explaining our choices and situation and submit it with the application? Is it going to help our case?

Sorry for the wall of text and thank you in advance for any help.

Have you thought of applying for express entry? There are other ways to get into Canada besides sponsorship and considering your skills, you should get maximum points besides the education part.

 

[canadianwoman]

There are things you can do to make your application better, as above posters have also noted.

I would suggest you apply outland. You can be in Canada as a visitor and still apply outland. Inland applications generally take much longer, and you are advised to not leave Canada during processing. You also cannot appeal an inland refusal. With inland, you can get an open work permit, but it takes about 4 months after you apply to receive it. Since you can work remotely, you do not need it anyway.

Try to include your child on the application. CIC really does not like it when people do not include a child. This will delay your application. The child can be declared as non-accompanying, but will still need a medical. Try to explain to the mother that this is in the child's best interests. If she dies or cannot look after the child, you still will not be able to sponsor him if he has not had the medical now. In addition, when the child is older he might want to come to Canada for school. If you cannot get the mother to agree to the medical, see if someone else could talk to her for you. Explain that if she agrees to the medical, that does not mean the child will be going to Canada. He cannot come without her permission.

You only have one month together, and with only one photo. This is really not enough. Spend several months together before getting married, and take more photos.

Having a civil ceremony is OK for the marriage. With a Canadian and a European, the visa officer will not expect a huge wedding. Still try to make it look special, however, as others have said.

One thing the visa officer will expect to see is that your wife has as good a relationship as possible with your child, and knows a lot about him. He will be her step-son, so not knowing much about him is a huge red flag. Even if the mother does not allow the child to meet your girlfriend, they could maybe talk on Skype. If not, at least you should tell her all about him.

 

[crazy D]

But what if in our case, we have tons of pictures together but mostly just selfie in public or even just in bed. our first meeting for 15 days but we have pics in every day together then 2nd visit and our wedding , same tons of pics together every day that for 14 days.
although we had civil wedding, glad my husband didn't listen to me about wedding ring, that i'm ok without it and just simple white dress. but he want at least formal. so he bought wedding ring with simple wedding gown for me and my husband with suit and tie. civil it could be an issue coz its against our norms i'm muslim and my husband Atheist. but we had sweet crazy wedding pics together lol

i think you still have time to collect more evidence. and it's a good plan to spend couple of months with here since you can freely visit your gf. and since she just graduated would be nice if she can find a job too so she can show good financial situation since she's your sponsor.

 

[ImABule]

But what if in our case, we have tons of pictures together but mostly just selfie in public or even just in bed. our first meeting for 15 days but we have pics in every day together then 2nd visit and our wedding , same tons of pics together every day that for 14 days.
although we had civil wedding, glad my husband didn't listen to me about wedding ring, that i'm ok without it and just simple white dress. but he want at least formal. so he bought wedding ring with simple wedding gown for me and my husband with suit and tie. civil it could be an issue coz its against our norms i'm muslim and my husband Atheist. but we had sweet crazy wedding pics together lol

i think you still have time to collect more evidence. and it's a good plan to spend couple of months with here since you can freely visit your gf. and since she just graduated would be nice if she can find a job too so she can show good financial situation since she's your sponsor.

What's your nationality and VO?

My wife is Muslim and I converted to marry her.

 

[crazy D]

Manila
wow, what a big changed for you.lol well, although i'm muslim but i don't totally practice and act like a real muslim like, praying 5x,fasting. wearing veil. so it was ok for me to have civil wedding.

 

[profiler]

This story is interesting and resonates with me. My wife and I have the same situation, but reversed.

I am the Canadian Software Engineer sponsoring her also from a Slavic state in Eastern Europe (Russia). We also did the civil union, and included some pictures of our adventures (selfies, etc). I don't have much in the way of Skype chat logs because, well, there was so much that the computers I use Skype on would actually crash. Though I did back them up before purging.

She is 30, I am 37.

I also have a son, and I introduced him to my wife before we married. They get on perfect -- I think he likes her more than me some days! We also included 4 notarised letters from my family members, stating that our relationship is genuine and on-going, that she is a great fit for our family, and my parents included that she is an excellent Step-Mother to my son. We included pictures of them having fun as well.

I also included my 2014 tax return (states "SEPARATED") and 2015 (states "MARRIED"). It was my understanding that they want to see that you are integrating your lives together. She is also the beneficiary to life insurance and my pension.

Which brings up an interesting point: To sponsor, she will have to show that she can support you financially for the duration of the sponsorship. The idea here is to keep you off social assistance (or else she would have to pay that back).

 

[Siqz]

Unfortunately my girlfriend is not even willing to consider visiting Europe right now. She thinks that Europe in general is unsafe and there are also plenty of misconception and prejudices about my country in the western world. Most of them aren't even half true.

Also, I'd like to point out, that I'm not really interested in working in Canada. I will eventually apply for OWP, just in case, but I currently have a job that pays more than a Canadian average for a similar position and I get equity too. I'm definitely not an economic migrant, since my personal standard of living is higher in my country, than it will be ever be in Canada. I'll get pretty much the same salary, but Canada is just more expensive. I think that Canada is a great country and I loved every second while being there, but I'm only doing this, so we could be together.

Thank you for pointing out that leaving my child out of the application would be such a bad idea. I have contacted my ex about it again. I will also use your advice about the marriage ceremony and rings.

I have a few more questions:
1. Is us getting married because we just want to live together considered a marriage of convenience, or a fraud?
2. ImABule said that I shouldn't say that I want to stay for 6 months. What is the safest thing for me to say? How many times can I extend my visitor record?
3. Speaking of visitor record, last time I was in Canada, they stapled a temporary visitor record to my passport and said I should return it when I leave Canada. When I was leaving, I couldn't find a place to return it, so I have stopped a random officer and she told me that they will remove the record when I board the plane. I forgot about it and now I found out it's still in my passport. Am I going to get in trouble because of that? I have applied for ETA and got approved, so I hope not. Anything I can do about it? I would prefer not to spend over $1.5k and be turned back right after I get off the plane.

Thank you all for your help and kind words. I certainly wouldn't have expected to find such a wonderful community here.