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@MajorGrom I couldn't care less about this whole Canada vs USA thing going on here, but your info on the US seems to be through some rose tinted glasses. I lived in the US for 9 years, and I have had insurance the entire time. Employer sponsored health insurance doesn't mean the employer pays for it. Your monthly premiums are deducted from your paycheck. The advantage is simply that it's tax deductable.

But even after monthly premiums, you have to pay your deductible and/or copay. In the absence of serious illness or an accident etc, most people will never reach the deductible limit each year, so you end up paying your monthly premiums PLUS your entire deductible. Health insurance companies literally exist to cover as little as possible and take as much from you as possible in health emergencies. Their insane profit margins speak for themselves.

Next, I have never had a wait less than 4-5 hours in US hospitals. Whether it's a simple physician visit, an ER visit, or an actual hospital visit.

Yeah Canada has issues and all, but the US healthcare system is broken as hell. I understand what you said about US still being the better option for you, that's totally fair. But try not to paint yourself too idealistic a picture of what American healthcare is. It's among the worst in the developed world.
Maybe you are right. I spent 2 years in Houston and when I needed help (busted my knee), I got it in super short time (40 minutes in ER). I just had to pay small amount for a medicine. Tax accountant told me that he can get some money back from IRS but it's was like 5$ so I didn't want to bother.

Things could have changed. That was in 2012-2014.
 
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especially since @MajorGrom you are from Waterloo and a lot of Waterloo students go to the bay area after they graduate, so I believe it should not be that difficult to get an H1B sponsorship for you?
They go via TN visa. H1B is a lottery system and it's ruined. I believe that last time I checked it, they had 85K spots and close to 300K applicants.
 
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You're from Russia? Damn. You're in a rough spot. Since you're Russian and if your goal is to settle in the United States permanently, why are you moving to Canada then? To be very honest with you, you are probably wasting a lot of your time. The TN visa is not an immigrant visa and most Canadians who use the TN visa to work in the US, are only there for a temporary purpose and then they eventually return to Canada. The ones who want to continue living in the US, opt for sponsorship through H1B visas and L1 visas. The TN visa does not allow dual intent so you cannot apply for your green card. It would probably take you 5 years or more to obtain Canadian citizenship depending on how awful IRCC is at processing citizenship applications. In that time, you could have obtained a H1B visa or an L1 visa if your skills are in demand as per what you say, and since you're neither an Indian or a Chinese Citizen, you wouldn't even have to worry about the greencard backlog.
It would be way easier for me to get a job in Canada that I can use to transfer to the USA via L1. There are no US companies left in Russia (maybe some but nothing too large). On top of that, this was one of the options I explored when I was working in Moscow. It's not that easy to transfer to the USA on L1. Everyone wants that, so a lot of office politics get involved.

H1 is a lottery and it's ruined. They allocate 85K and I believe the last time I checked, they got 300K applicants. There is another option (I believe @GandiBaat talked about it) of E-2 or something like that.
 

GandiBaat

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You're from Russia? Damn. You're in a rough spot. Since you're Russian and if your goal is to settle in the United States permanently, why are you moving to Canada then? To be very honest with you, you are probably wasting a lot of your time. The TN visa is not an immigrant visa and most Canadians who use the TN visa to work in the US, are only there for a temporary purpose and then they eventually return to Canada. The ones who want to continue living in the US, opt for sponsorship through H1B visas and L1 visas. The TN visa does not allow dual intent so you cannot apply for your green card. It would probably take you 5 years or more to obtain Canadian citizenship depending on how awful IRCC is at processing citizenship applications. In that time, you could have obtained a H1B visa or an L1 visa if your skills are in demand as per what you say, and since you're neither an Indian or a Chinese Citizen, you wouldn't even have to worry about the greencard backlog.
TN-1 visa on Canadian passport has one major advantage: It gives you an authorization at the port of entry. No need to go to the counslate or embassy.

Now coming to permanent resident status, a non-Indian, non-Chinese have one advantage. Their EB-2 wait time is not really as bad as Indians and Chinese have. Currently US immigration is processing EB-2 they got in november 2022. (https://www.immi-usa.com/visa-bulletin/)

Meaning if someone like @MajorGrom with a masters degree (so he fits in Advanced degree criteria) wants, they can get a EB-2 NIW Green card in less than an year.

https://www.uscis.gov/forms/explore-my-options/eb-2-employment-based-immigration-advanced-degree-or-exceptional-ability

NIW also makes it possible for him to self petition without requiring an employer.
 
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GandiBaat

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It would be way easier for me to get a job in Canada that I can use to transfer to the USA via L1. There are no US companies left in Russia (maybe some but nothing too large). On top of that, this was one of the options I explored when I was working in Moscow. It's not that easy to transfer to the USA on L1. Everyone wants that, so a lot of office politics get involved.

H1 is a lottery and it's ruined. They allocate 85K and I believe the last time I checked, they got 300K applicants. There is another option (I believe @GandiBaat talked about it) of E-2 or something like that.
If I were you, I will check with a US immigration lawyer about EB-2 NIW (self petition). OR may be buy a NIW kit. Lawyer will be better IMHO.

With GC in your pocket you can get a job rather easily in USA.
 

abhiram.kumar

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TN-1 visa on Canadian passport has one major advantage: It gives you an authorization at the port of entry. No need to go to the counslate or embassy.

Now coming to permanent resident status, a non-Indian, non-Chinese have one advantage. Their EB-2 wait time is not really as bad as Indians and Chinese have. Currently US immigration is processing EB-2 they got in november 2022. (https://www.immi-usa.com/visa-bulletin/)

Meaning if someone like @MajorGrom with a masters degree (so he fits in Advanced degree criteria) wants, they can get a EB-2 NIW Green card in less than an year.

https://www.uscis.gov/forms/explore-my-options/eb-2-employment-based-immigration-advanced-degree-or-exceptional-ability

Best part about NIW? They don't have to even have a job offer to apply for that.
While that may enable a person to obtain work authorisation in the US quickly, it has several restrictions and it isn’t even as good as what Australian citizens have in terms of E3. There’s this misconception that the TN visa is a great privilege when it really isn’t. Spouses of E3 visa holders can work in the US while spouses of TN visa holders cannot work, which in my opinion, is a very big restriction. My ultimate point being that neither of these visas are used for permanent settlement in the United States and people eventually have to be sponsored by their employers in order to gain a shot at permanent settlement. For citizens of Russia, who have no issues when it comes to green card backlogs, it seems like a massive waste of time to wait for probably five years, in order to gain citizenship in Canada, and then move to the US under TN, and then eventually convince your employer for sponsorship when instead, in those 5 years of waiting, you could directly apply to employers and seek sponsorship. Tech workers who have in demand skills should not have any issues in being sponsored by US companies. You probably would have received your green card by then and you could even apply for US citizenship. In hindsight, nothing really changes and you eventually have to seek sponsorship anyways. You’re ultimately making things more complicated and longer through TN. This is just my personal opinion.
 

GandiBaat

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While that may enable a person to obtain work authorisation in the US quickly, it has several restrictions and it isn’t even as good as what Australian citizens have in terms of E3. There’s this misconception that the TN visa is a great privilege when it really isn’t. Spouses of E3 visa holders can work in the US while spouses of TN visa holders cannot work, which in my opinion, is a very big restriction.
It is VERY likely that spouses of someone getting TN is also a canadian citizen. Couples often immigrate together. Yes there will be few folks who will have citizen+non-citizen pairs but most will be citizen-citizen pair. Even in case of citizen - non-citizen pair, its going to be a temporary situation for few years. One can apply to become citizen in Canada after 3 years and become a citizen in 4-5 years total.

So, mostly if you are not having a job, move as TN and TD holder. Interview, get a job, go to border again and get a TN. Not too much of trouble.

My ultimate point being that neither of these visas are used for permanent settlement in the United States and people eventually have to be sponsored by their employers in order to gain a shot at permanent settlement.
Well, look it at this way, TN gives you almost a guaranteed entry into US labour market. Having a TN-1 does not stop you from getting a H1-B in future. It allows you to easily switch job without any wait for processing at embassy -- unlike some HB-1. If you loose your job, no problem! Get another job in US and immigration will not be a headache. You can stay in US as a visitor (may be you need to re-enter).

Try doing that with HB-1 and its 60 days countdown and a lottery to get it again. Also employers can not have too much power over you in TN-1. In H1-B, they can make your life miserable outside your job by firing you.

TN-1 is one tool in your toolbox, for its purpose its very powerful. While you are waiting for stupid H1-B lottery to favour you, use your TN-1 to continue working in USA.

Finally, the real comparison is actually in these two situations.

1. A person with option of TN-1.
2. A person without option of TN-1.

Its not between TN-1 and H1-B. H1-B is available for everyone (so is L1, btw). TN-1 is only for Canadian citizens.

For citizens of Russia, who have no issues when it comes to green card backlogs, it seems like a massive waste of time to wait for probably five years, in order to gain citizenship in Canada, and then move to the US under TN, and then eventually convince your employer for sponsorship when instead, in those 5 years of waiting, you could directly apply to employers and seek sponsorship. Tech workers who have in demand skills should not have any issues in being sponsored by US companies. You probably would have received your green card by then and you could even apply for US citizenship. In hindsight, nothing really changes and you eventually have to seek sponsorship anyways. You’re ultimately making things more complicated and longer through TN. This is just my personal opinion.
I agree, thats why I told him to look into possibility of EB2 NIW using his masters degree from waterloo. Even if it is just bachelor's degree, add 5 years of work exp in CS/IT and you can petition for EB2-NIW.
 
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It is VERY likely that spouses of someone getting TN is also a canadian citizen. Couples often immigrate together. Yes there will be few folks who will have citizen+non-citizen pairs but most will be citizen-citizen pair. Even in case of citizen - non-citizen pair, its going to be a temporary situation for few years. One can apply to become citizen in Canada after 3 years and become a citizen in 4-5 years total.

So, mostly if you are not having a job, move as TN and TD holder. Interview, get a job, go to border again and get a TN. Not too much of trouble.


Well, look it at this way, TN gives you almost a guaranteed entry into US labour market. Having a TN-1 does not stop you from getting a H1-B in future. It allows you to easily switch job without any wait for processing at embassy -- unlike some HB-1. If you loose your job, no problem! Get another job in US and immigration will not be a headache. You can stay in US as a visitor (may be you need to re-enter).

Try doing that with HB-1 and its 60 days countdown and a lottery to get it again. Also employers can not have too much power over you in TN-1. In H1-B, they can make your life miserable outside your job by firing you.

TN-1 is one tool in your toolbox, for its purpose its very powerful. While you are waiting for stupid H1-B lottery to favour you, use your TN-1 to continue working in USA.

Finally, the real comparison is actually in these two situations.

1. A person with option of TN-1.
2. A person without option of TN-1.

Its not between TN-1 and H1-B. H1-B is available for everyone (so is L1, btw). TN-1 is only for Canadian citizens.


I agree, thats why I told him to look into possibility of EB2 NIW using his masters degree from waterloo. Even if it is just bachelor's degree, add 5 years of work exp in CS/IT and you can petition for EB2-NIW.
Thank you for the advice. I will check it out.

Believe it or not, I am tired with immigration and etc. I want to focus on my career for 2-3 years and after that, let's see. As I have mentioned before, maybe Canada will fix the healthcare issue. Maybe, I will be able to buy a home here. Maybe, I will be making enough money for my lifestyle and extra 50K just wouldn't be worth it.
 

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Thank you for the advice. I will check it out.

Believe it or not, I am tired with immigration and etc. I want to focus on my career for 2-3 years and after that, let's see. As I have mentioned before, maybe Canada will fix the healthcare issue. Maybe, I will be able to buy a home here. Maybe, I will be making enough money for my lifestyle and extra 50K just wouldn't be worth it.
I can totally understand. IIRC, we had a similar talk before on this thread and you mentioned about your fatigue with immigration. You are right, its one of these torturous thing.
 
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cansha

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I can totally understand. IIRC, we had a similar talk before on this thread and you mentioned about your fatigue with immigration. You are right, its one of these torturous thing.
Immigration fatigue is real. When I moved to Canada, I also had mixed experiences and I think most people who move from US may find Canada a let down on many things. I think primary driver is decrease in income and almost everything being expensive in Canada compared to US. So, in my initial days I dreamed of going back to US almost daily on TN visa (may be hourly). Couldn't wait to apply for citizenship. My reasons were quite similar to what @MajorGrom has been saying here (enjoying US vs Canada discussions). But now after 3+ years and having sent in application for citizenship that desire to move has been dwindling down every month ... Just tired of moving around. Just the thought of packing up all again and moving once more is brutal. I mean it will still again start with all those things .. looking for a new place .. furnishing it again , either buying a new car or exporting old one .. Just the thought of doing all those admin tasks again fill me with dread ..

I understand all the reasons people have mentioned to make the move and I agree with most of them. But I'm right now wondering if I have the energy to do it over once again. Even doing the whole citizenship application felt so cumbersome even though it is much simpler compared to PR one. Just this whole immigration thing sucks your energy little by little and with all other things that one has to tackle it is not easy.

So, anyone who can still find the will to move all the best .. it is the right move and I hope I will feel different once I get Canadian passport. For now, I have stopped dreaming about moving to US and I'm happy to be here in Canada. Even with all the issues this place does feel like home and that is all needed for now.
 

GandiBaat

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Immigration fatigue is real. When I moved to Canada, I also had mixed experiences and I think most people who move from US may find Canada a let down on many things. I think primary driver is decrease in income and almost everything being expensive in Canada compared to US. So, in my initial days I dreamed of going back to US almost daily on TN visa (may be hourly). Couldn't wait to apply for citizenship. My reasons were quite similar to what @MajorGrom has been saying here (enjoying US vs Canada discussions). But now after 3+ years and having sent in application for citizenship that desire to move has been dwindling down every month ... Just tired of moving around. Just the thought of packing up all again and moving once more is brutal. I mean it will still again start with all those things .. looking for a new place .. furnishing it again , either buying a new car or exporting old one .. Just the thought of doing all those admin tasks again fill me with dread ..

I understand all the reasons people have mentioned to make the move and I agree with most of them. But I'm right now wondering if I have the energy to do it over once again. Even doing the whole citizenship application felt so cumbersome even though it is much simpler compared to PR one. Just this whole immigration thing sucks your energy little by little and with all other things that one has to tackle it is not easy.

So, anyone who can still find the will to move all the best .. it is the right move and I hope I will feel different once I get Canadian passport. For now, I have stopped dreaming about moving to US and I'm happy to be here in Canada. Even with all the issues this place does feel like home and that is all needed for now.
There is a reason why immigration is a professional service. It requires real effort. The way around it is you delegate it to someone else -- for a price. Let them handle all the nitty gritty of immigration while you focus somewhere else.
 
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There is a reason why immigration is a professional service. It requires real effort. The way around it is you delegate it to someone else -- for a price. Let them handle all the nitty gritty of immigration while you focus somewhere else.
The effort isn't doing the paperwork. It's always uprooting and moving, always trying to go to the next thing. Never feeling permanent anywhere even if your title says so. Personal greed does play a major role in it.
 

GandiBaat

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The effort isn't doing the paperwork. It's always uprooting and moving, always trying to go to the next thing. Never feeling permanent anywhere even if your title says so. Personal greed does play a major role in it.
To me, uprooting moving part is not that big of a trouble. It cuts only for few weeks.

What is really painful is the uncertainty of whole process: The what ifs. Like

1. OMG My wife has to renew her OWP! What if they reject her SOWP?
2. What if I made a mistake in form?
3. What if I entered Iceland inplace of india? (I kid you not this almost happened, though my lawyer was more to blame).
4. OMG! What if I was fired! will I have to withdraw her application? (I kid you not, it happened with one of my friend).
5.OMG! YES! She will not be avail to renew her SOWP! What will I do?
6. What if asked her to leave Canada?
7. What if she has to take a flight back? Now? In middle of pandemic? (I know they processed one guys and kicked him out even though he worked as a nurse in covid care)
8. What if she got COVID on the way?
9. OMG! They just removed restoring to a different authorization!!! I cann't restore her to visitor!

and on and on and on

IRCC does not help by having many many many months long waiting. SOWP was taking 8-9 months. borders were closed, no flagpolling. :( Horrible time.

Living with this uncertainties for long time is tiring. And really, it is not your fault too. It is IRCC being son of a **$*$$ and processing their stuff so slow.
 
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