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FSW 2014 Applicants Timeline- Lets Network Here.

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R

rvp_deltario

Champion Member
Jan 13, 2015
1,465
182
New Delhi
Category........
Visa Office......
[color=#0B59D7][b][size=10pt][size=10pt]NDVO[/size][/size][/b][/color]
NOC Code......
[size=10pt][color=#19864A][b]1212[/b][/color][/size]
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
[b][color=#1469C4]5 Jun 14[/color][/b]
File Transfer...
[b][color=#1469C4]20 Nov 14[/color][/b]
Med's Request
[b][color=#1469C4]28 Nov 14[/color][/b]
Med's Done....
[b][color=#1469C4]26 Dec 14[/color][/b] Med's[color=white]_[/color]update..: [b][color=#1469C4]05 Jan 15[/color][/b] DM[color=white].[/color]on[color=white].[/color]eCAS...: [b][color=#1469C4]17 Mar 15[/color][/b]
Passport Req..
[b][color=#1469C4]18 Mar 15[/color][/b] Passport[color=white]_[/color]Sent.:[b][color=#1469C4]19 Mar 15[/color][/b]
VISA ISSUED...
[color=#0B59D7][b]11 Mar 15[/b][/color] Passport[color=white]_[/color]Rcvd.:[b][color=#0B59D7]9 Apr 15[/color][/b]
LANDED..........
[color=#19864A][b]Jul-2015[/b][/color] [img]http://melauspartners.com/animated-canadian-flag-gif-210.gif[/img]
Below is the order -

PER (Sent by CIO- Nova scotia post initial screening of you application)
eCAS 1st Line - We have received you application on xxxx (Corresponding entry post PER)
AOR (Sent by your local VISA office post physical file is received. Not send by all VO's though)
eCAS 2nd Line - We have started processing you application on xxxx (A Visa officer starts working on your file)
eCAS 3rd Line - We have received medicals (After the above line, once the VO is satisfied with all the docs, he will issue you medical request, post completion this line is updated)
eCAS 4th Line - A decision has been made, VO will contact. (Here the processing has ended and hopefully next you receive is Passport request for Visa)

Cherub said:
HELLO GUYS

I got confused of the order can someone assists me?

Received application, AOR, PER, MR? whats the order and next in line??

What are 2nd line, third line updates? Are these necessary and when does it usually comes?

Thanks

Timeline:

APPLICATION : DECEMBER 10, 2014
DD CHARGED: JANUARY 2, 2015
PER: FEBRUARY 26, 2015
Click to expand...
 
sk1984indian

sk1984indian

Champion Member
Apr 28, 2014
2,569
380
BEDFORD
Category........
Visa Office......
New Delhi
NOC Code......
2171
App. Filed.......
30th July 2014
Doc's Request.
CC Charge Date : 8th Nov 2014
Nomination.....
PER Date : 25th Nov
AOR Received.
Processing started on 19th Feb 2015
IELTS Request
Sent along with the application
File Transfer...
30th Dec 2014
Med's Request
14th Mar 2015
Med's Done....
Completed medicals : 20th Mar 2015, Medicals uploaded : 27th Mar 2015, 3rd line update (Medical results received) : 31st Mar 2015
Interview........
Hopefully waived :) :)
Passport Req..
PPR : 4th May 2015, DM : 5th May, Passport Sent : 6th May, Passport Received : 23rd May 2015
VISA ISSUED...
19th May 2015
LANDED..........
4th September 2015
alwaysonnet said:
hi all,

I got my passports request just now. Decision made status changed on last Saturday. Thanks everyone....
Click to expand...
Congratulations Buddy !!! :) :) :)

canadafsw2015 said:
PPR PPR PPR

After a long long wait...By God's grace I've finally received my PPR today at 9:26 am IST

Can't express how elated and happy I feel...

My timeline is as follows

NDVO
NOC - 1112
Application date - 13 May 2014
CC Charge - 12 August 2014
PER - 22 August 2014
MR received - 7 November 2014
MR done - 12 November 2014
Repeat medical furtherance - 13 February 2015 (Sputum and repeat chest X-ray)
3rd line updated - 18 February 2015
PPR - 10 March 2015
ECAS not updated to DM yet, still shows 3rd line.

Just FYI - I had declared about my previous US student visa rejection after my MR, along with the RPRF courier.

Time to party!!!!!

Cheers..!!
Click to expand...
Congratulations Buddy !!! :) :) :)

tulima said:
Hello All

I am happy to inform you all that I have received Passport request . Below are my Time lines

NOC-2281
VO- NDVO
App Sent - 27th June
PER Received - 13 Nov
Second Line update- 14 Jan
Medicals received - 19th Jan
Medical done - 31 Jan
Third Line update - 7th Feb
RPRF Fees,PCC sent - 9th Feb
DM - 9th March
PP Request - 10h March

Thank you all for the continuous support and guidance . Please update my time lines.
Click to expand...

Congratulations Buddy !!! :) :) :)

Never Say Never said:
PPR PPR PPR

PPR PPR PPR

finally got our PPR mail today morning!!!!!!! So happy!!! Thank you God!!

My timeline is as follows

NDVO
NOC - 1123
Application date - 4th July 2014
PER - 29 Oct 2014
MR received - 2 Feb 2014
MR done - 7 February 2014
3rd line updated - 15 February 2015
PPR - 10 March 2015
ECAS updated to DM

thank you all for doing such a wonderful job!!!! Hope today NDVO does 50 + DM/PPR and MRs.

May God bless you all!!!!
Click to expand...
Congratulations Buddy !!! :) :) :)

LORDHELP said:
By the grace of God our 3rd line got updated...
wait for PPR begins...
thanks to all the forum members for their support. .
Click to expand...
Congratulations Buddy !!! :) :) :)

pratiknruparel said:
Guyz....my one friend who is not in Forum got PPR just Now !

Applicant of 8th May !
Click to expand...
Congrats to your friend. Thank you for sharing

manisha575 said:
3rd line got updated today...Medicals done 2nd march 8) ;D
Click to expand...
Congratulations Buddy !!! :) :) :)

VIVVISVK said:
Hi All,

Got my 3rd line updated today, 10March'15 9:30 IST !!! Yayyy!!!!

VO : NDVO
App recvd : July 18
Per : Nov 17
Second line : Feb 9th
Processing started : Feb 5
Medicals recvd : 21Feb
Medicals done : 27th Feb
3rd Line : March 10

Had raised CSE to update new born details on jan7 and recvd medicals for the child along with mine after updating all documents via CSE along with signed letter as a scanned attachment.

Thanks for all your support!
Cheers!!! :-* :-* :-* :-*
Click to expand...
Congratulations Buddy !!! :) :) :)

Bodhisattvadelhi said:
Good Morning dear forumites!!!!! :-* :-* :-* :-*

RECEIVED PPR mail and DM status updated today morning at 9:26 am.

My timelines are:
NOC: 2133 (Electrical Engineer)

Application Received: 27th June 2014.
CC Charged: 15th Oct 2014
PER mail: 24th Oct.
Second line update: 22 Dec 2014.
MR Request : 15th Jan 2015.
MR done : 05th feb 2015.
MR Received status: 17th feb 2015. (PCC sent with MR)
PPR Request and DM status: 10th March 2015.


Thankyou very much :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :).Praying for all member to get their PER/MR/PPR/DM at the earliest.
Click to expand...
Congratulations Buddy !!! :) :) :)

chitu_ran said:
Finally after waiting around 75 days got ppr today morning. Thanks every one for helping me
will update the ss soon

Application received: june 16

dd encashed :eek:ct 7

PER: oct 10 th

medicals+RRPF :nov 20 th

medicals submitted on dec 12th

rrpf fees submtted on dec 23 rd

Third line updated on dec 30 th

PPr finally on 10 th march 2015

Thanks
Click to expand...
Congratulations Buddy !!! :) :) :)

avadutala said:
PPR received today

My colleage is submitting passport on behalf of me and my family, do he have to carry any additional documents apart from passports, photos, PPR email letter and family information mentioned in PPR mail?

Please advise

Thanks
Click to expand...
Congratulations Buddy !!! :) :) :) If he has authorization letter, then he can submit the PP's

TimZin said:
Woooooooooow.....sooooooooo happyyyyyyyyyy :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

PP Request and DM finally!!!!!!!!!!!!

My timeline:

Application sent: 16/06/2014
Application received: 20/06/2014
VO: London
NOC: 1123
CC charged: 09/10/2014
PER email: 17/10/2014
ECAS 2nd line : 03/02/2015
MR,PCC & RPRF requests: 09/02/2015
Medicals done: 18/02/2015
ECAS 3rd line: 28/02/2015
PCC & RPRF sent on: 01/03/2015
PCC & RPRF received by LVO: 03/03/2015
PP request: 09/03/2015
ECAS status: DM TODAY 10/03/2015 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

(SS will update shortly)

Also to mention, that as per instructions from LVO, we have to submit our passports and 2 recent photos for each family member for visa stamping to Abu Dhabi Canadian Embassy (since we live in Dubai), not to London Office, so extremely happy that visa will be ready faster then we expected!!!!!!!!!

Thank you once again to all forum members for continuous support and all the information given here, it is such a help for people who are just waiting and waiting and waiting..... ;) ;) ;) ;)

Good luck for those who is still waiting, just keep praying..... :) :) :)
Click to expand...
Congratulations Buddy !!! :) :) :)

bass2009 said:
Friends,
my ECAS updated with second line today saying "2.We started processing your application on March 03, 2015"
Now what Happens,
Please Advice
Click to expand...
Congrats Buddy !!! Wish you a speedy MR

CrazyCanada said:
Got my PPR email this morning :p :p
ECas is still "In-Process"
Click to expand...
Congratulations Buddy !!! :) :) :)

sukhpreet_85 said:
Second line updated ! Application recd - 15 Sept
Per- 31st Dec. File processing started on 5th march. Noc - 1123. Vo- ndvo.
Now waiting for the MR mail. Fingers crossed.
Somebody pls update the spreadsheet
Click to expand...
Congrats Buddy !!! Wish you a speedy MR
 
sk1984indian

sk1984indian

Champion Member
Apr 28, 2014
2,569
380
BEDFORD
Category........
Visa Office......
New Delhi
NOC Code......
2171
App. Filed.......
30th July 2014
Doc's Request.
CC Charge Date : 8th Nov 2014
Nomination.....
PER Date : 25th Nov
AOR Received.
Processing started on 19th Feb 2015
IELTS Request
Sent along with the application
File Transfer...
30th Dec 2014
Med's Request
14th Mar 2015
Med's Done....
Completed medicals : 20th Mar 2015, Medicals uploaded : 27th Mar 2015, 3rd line update (Medical results received) : 31st Mar 2015
Interview........
Hopefully waived :) :)
Passport Req..
PPR : 4th May 2015, DM : 5th May, Passport Sent : 6th May, Passport Received : 23rd May 2015
VISA ISSUED...
19th May 2015
LANDED..........
4th September 2015
dmac11 said:
Brother.. those are the nicest words i have seen so far for keeping the patience. +One bro.. you are an inspiration.. ;)
Click to expand...
Thanks Buddy
 
R

rvp_deltario

Champion Member
Jan 13, 2015
1,465
182
New Delhi
Category........
Visa Office......
[color=#0B59D7][b][size=10pt][size=10pt]NDVO[/size][/size][/b][/color]
NOC Code......
[size=10pt][color=#19864A][b]1212[/b][/color][/size]
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
[b][color=#1469C4]5 Jun 14[/color][/b]
File Transfer...
[b][color=#1469C4]20 Nov 14[/color][/b]
Med's Request
[b][color=#1469C4]28 Nov 14[/color][/b]
Med's Done....
[b][color=#1469C4]26 Dec 14[/color][/b] Med's[color=white]_[/color]update..: [b][color=#1469C4]05 Jan 15[/color][/b] DM[color=white].[/color]on[color=white].[/color]eCAS...: [b][color=#1469C4]17 Mar 15[/color][/b]
Passport Req..
[b][color=#1469C4]18 Mar 15[/color][/b] Passport[color=white]_[/color]Sent.:[b][color=#1469C4]19 Mar 15[/color][/b]
VISA ISSUED...
[color=#0B59D7][b]11 Mar 15[/b][/color] Passport[color=white]_[/color]Rcvd.:[b][color=#0B59D7]9 Apr 15[/color][/b]
LANDED..........
[color=#19864A][b]Jul-2015[/b][/color] [img]http://melauspartners.com/animated-canadian-flag-gif-210.gif[/img]
No, PCC is Security clearance from your country.
Background checks is something a Visa officer initiates only when and if he/she has suspision on docs submitted.

preeren2015 said:
is background checks same as police clearance certificate?
Click to expand...
 
sk1984indian

sk1984indian

Champion Member
Apr 28, 2014
2,569
380
BEDFORD
Category........
Visa Office......
New Delhi
NOC Code......
2171
App. Filed.......
30th July 2014
Doc's Request.
CC Charge Date : 8th Nov 2014
Nomination.....
PER Date : 25th Nov
AOR Received.
Processing started on 19th Feb 2015
IELTS Request
Sent along with the application
File Transfer...
30th Dec 2014
Med's Request
14th Mar 2015
Med's Done....
Completed medicals : 20th Mar 2015, Medicals uploaded : 27th Mar 2015, 3rd line update (Medical results received) : 31st Mar 2015
Interview........
Hopefully waived :) :)
Passport Req..
PPR : 4th May 2015, DM : 5th May, Passport Sent : 6th May, Passport Received : 23rd May 2015
VISA ISSUED...
19th May 2015
LANDED..........
4th September 2015
yoleik said:
I got AOR in 18/12
waiting for second line and MR.
30 july app
2281
Click to expand...
yoleik said:
Please advise.
is second line updated when the application is received at VO or later stage. My friend, sometimes the 2nd line gets updated after getting MR or before MR. I know it is been a long frustrating wait for you. Please try to be positive, some VO's work in a slower way while others work faster. I am sure your MR is on the way
i got AOR on 18/12
no second line update yet.
Click to expand...
 
S

sdhar

Star Member
Jul 21, 2014
120
18
Category........
Visa Office......
NDVO
NOC Code......
0121
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
Jul 22, 2014
Med's Request
Jan 15, 2015
Med's Done....
Received by NDVO- Jan 24, 2015
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
Mar 18, 2015.
VISA ISSUED...
Apr 09, 2015
LANDED..........
July 2015
CrazyCanada said:
Got my PPR email this morning :p :p
ECas is still "In-Process"
Click to expand...
Congrats
 
vind

vind

Champion Member
Jul 27, 2014
2,489
268
Category........
Visa Office......
New Delhi
NOC Code......
0121
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
June 18 2014<br>Fees Charged.: Oct 10 2014 <br>PER Received.: Oct 17 2014<br>Upfront Med...April 7 2015<br>MEDs Uploaded: April 9 2015<br>Second Line : April 18 2015<br>Medical Request : April 21 2015 <br>Medicals Received : May 22, 2015 <br>Passport Request.: June 1, 2015 <br>Visa issued : Soon <br><br><b>FAQ:</b><br><a href="http://fswp2013.wordpress.com/FAQs">Canada FSWP FAQs</a><br><b>Spreadsheet:</b><br><a href="http://tinyurl.com/FSW14-Spreadsheet">FSW 2014 Spreadsheet</a><br><b>Chit Chat:</b><br><a href="http://tinyurl.com/FSW-2014-FORUM">FSW 2014 DISCUSSION FORUM</a><br><b>Enter your own data:</b><br><a href="http://tinyurl.com/FSW14-Entry">FSW 2014 Entry</a><hr><img src="http://developer.linkedin.com/sites/default/files/LinkedIn_Logo30px.png" alt="" border="0" height="25" width="30"><b><a href="http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/index.php?action=pm;! sa=send;u=510711">PM me here</a></b>
preeren2015 said:
how do u +1?
Click to expand...

Press good on left side for giving + 1
<---------
 
CanOl

CanOl

VIP Member
Aug 9, 2014
7,219
774
India
Category........
Visa Office......
NDVO / WVO
NOC Code......
1114
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
02/09/2014 (As per me) ; 20/10/2014 (As per CIC)
Doc's Request.
[b]DD Encashed[/b] : 23/12/2014
Nomination.....
[b]PER[/b] : 20/01/2015
AOR Received.
09/02/2015 (Warsaw)
File Transfer...
[b]2nd Line update[/b] : 13/04/2015
Med's Request
15/04/2015
Med's Done....
[b]Upfront Meds[/b] : 31/03/2015
Passport Req..
23/07/2015
VISA ISSUED...
[img width=145 height=100]http://www.fullboon.com/information/024.gif[/img]
LANDED..........
15/09/2015
preeren2015 said:
is background checks same as police clearance certificate?
Click to expand...
nope. They are different.
 
M

monika3142

Star Member
Aug 21, 2013
117
11
Dear seniors...
i already submitted my passport n for my husband on 5 march....but i jus noticed that while filling that table for me n my spouse which CIC sent in d passport request letter...i noticed that d last column where we had to write d contact nos. Was missing wen i submitted it....dats my mistake dat while taking out d print outs i didn't cross check it wid d original format....will dat affect my submission. ...please suggest....
 
R

rvp_deltario

Champion Member
Jan 13, 2015
1,465
182
New Delhi
Category........
Visa Office......
[color=#0B59D7][b][size=10pt][size=10pt]NDVO[/size][/size][/b][/color]
NOC Code......
[size=10pt][color=#19864A][b]1212[/b][/color][/size]
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
[b][color=#1469C4]5 Jun 14[/color][/b]
File Transfer...
[b][color=#1469C4]20 Nov 14[/color][/b]
Med's Request
[b][color=#1469C4]28 Nov 14[/color][/b]
Med's Done....
[b][color=#1469C4]26 Dec 14[/color][/b] Med's[color=white]_[/color]update..: [b][color=#1469C4]05 Jan 15[/color][/b] DM[color=white].[/color]on[color=white].[/color]eCAS...: [b][color=#1469C4]17 Mar 15[/color][/b]
Passport Req..
[b][color=#1469C4]18 Mar 15[/color][/b] Passport[color=white]_[/color]Sent.:[b][color=#1469C4]19 Mar 15[/color][/b]
VISA ISSUED...
[color=#0B59D7][b]11 Mar 15[/b][/color] Passport[color=white]_[/color]Rcvd.:[b][color=#0B59D7]9 Apr 15[/color][/b]
LANDED..........
[color=#19864A][b]Jul-2015[/b][/color] [img]http://melauspartners.com/animated-canadian-flag-gif-210.gif[/img]
I think it won't matter. How did you submit the PP, VFS?

monika3142 said:
Dear seniors...
i already submitted my passport n for my husband on 5 march....but i jus noticed that while filling that table for me n my spouse which CIC sent in d passport request letter...i noticed that d last column where we had to write d contact nos. Was missing wen i submitted it....dats my mistake dat while taking out d print outs i didn't cross check it wid d original format....will dat affect my submission. ...please suggest....
Click to expand...
 
Jaxon911

Jaxon911

Champion Member
Jun 18, 2014
1,217
206
London, UK
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
London
NOC Code......
2171
App. Filed.......
PR App 2014-06-23 & Citizenship App Filed in Aug 2022
alwaysonnet said:
hi all,

I got my passports request just now. Decision made status changed on last Saturday. Thanks everyone....
Click to expand...
Congratulations! Happy for you :D
 
CanOl

CanOl

VIP Member
Aug 9, 2014
7,219
774
India
Category........
Visa Office......
NDVO / WVO
NOC Code......
1114
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
02/09/2014 (As per me) ; 20/10/2014 (As per CIC)
Doc's Request.
[b]DD Encashed[/b] : 23/12/2014
Nomination.....
[b]PER[/b] : 20/01/2015
AOR Received.
09/02/2015 (Warsaw)
File Transfer...
[b]2nd Line update[/b] : 13/04/2015
Med's Request
15/04/2015
Med's Done....
[b]Upfront Meds[/b] : 31/03/2015
Passport Req..
23/07/2015
VISA ISSUED...
[img width=145 height=100]http://www.fullboon.com/information/024.gif[/img]
LANDED..........
15/09/2015
rvp_deltario said:
Below is the order -

PER (Sent by CIO- Nova scotia post initial screening of you application)
eCAS 1st Line - We have received you application on xxxx (Corresponding entry post PER)
AOR (Sent by your local VISA office post physical file is received. Not send by all VO's though)
eCAS 2nd Line - We have started processing you application on xxxx (A Visa officer starts working on your file)
eCAS 3rd Line - We have received medicals (After the above line, once the VO is satisfied with all the docs, he will issue you medical request, post completion this line is updated)
eCAS 4th Line - A decision has been made, VO will contact. (Here the processing has ended and hopefully next you receive is Passport request for Visa)
Click to expand...
thanks Deltario. One small correction.
1st line Ecas update can be before or after per. Ideally it should be before per just after completeness check.
 
R

rvp_deltario

Champion Member
Jan 13, 2015
1,465
182
New Delhi
Category........
Visa Office......
[color=#0B59D7][b][size=10pt][size=10pt]NDVO[/size][/size][/b][/color]
NOC Code......
[size=10pt][color=#19864A][b]1212[/b][/color][/size]
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
[b][color=#1469C4]5 Jun 14[/color][/b]
File Transfer...
[b][color=#1469C4]20 Nov 14[/color][/b]
Med's Request
[b][color=#1469C4]28 Nov 14[/color][/b]
Med's Done....
[b][color=#1469C4]26 Dec 14[/color][/b] Med's[color=white]_[/color]update..: [b][color=#1469C4]05 Jan 15[/color][/b] DM[color=white].[/color]on[color=white].[/color]eCAS...: [b][color=#1469C4]17 Mar 15[/color][/b]
Passport Req..
[b][color=#1469C4]18 Mar 15[/color][/b] Passport[color=white]_[/color]Sent.:[b][color=#1469C4]19 Mar 15[/color][/b]
VISA ISSUED...
[color=#0B59D7][b]11 Mar 15[/b][/color] Passport[color=white]_[/color]Rcvd.:[b][color=#0B59D7]9 Apr 15[/color][/b]
LANDED..........
[color=#19864A][b]Jul-2015[/b][/color] [img]http://melauspartners.com/animated-canadian-flag-gif-210.gif[/img]
Agree CanOl, that's logical too.

CanOl said:
thanks Deltario. One small correction.
1st line Ecas update can be before or after per. Ideally it should be before per just after completeness check.
Click to expand...
 
CanOl

CanOl

VIP Member
Aug 9, 2014
7,219
774
India
Category........
Visa Office......
NDVO / WVO
NOC Code......
1114
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
02/09/2014 (As per me) ; 20/10/2014 (As per CIC)
Doc's Request.
[b]DD Encashed[/b] : 23/12/2014
Nomination.....
[b]PER[/b] : 20/01/2015
AOR Received.
09/02/2015 (Warsaw)
File Transfer...
[b]2nd Line update[/b] : 13/04/2015
Med's Request
15/04/2015
Med's Done....
[b]Upfront Meds[/b] : 31/03/2015
Passport Req..
23/07/2015
VISA ISSUED...
[img width=145 height=100]http://www.fullboon.com/information/024.gif[/img]
LANDED..........
15/09/2015
monika3142 said:
Dear seniors...
i already submitted my passport n for my husband on 5 march....but i jus noticed that while filling that table for me n my spouse which CIC sent in d passport request letter...i noticed that d last column where we had to write d contact nos. Was missing wen i submitted it....dats my mistake dat while taking out d print outs i didn't cross check it wid d original format....will dat affect my submission. ...please suggest....
Click to expand...
don't think it will affect.
 
D

Dhyanm

Hero Member
Jun 9, 2014
246
14
Category........
Visa Office......
NDVO
NOC Code......
2173
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
26th May 2014
AOR Received.
September Mid
Med's Request
November Mid
Interview........
waived
Passport Req..
28th Feb 2015
VISA ISSUED...
soon
LANDED..........
soon
Hey Congrats to all who got their
PER, MR, DM/PPR

I have submitted my passport to Delhi via VFS.
When can I expect it back with stamp?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.