For PNP applicants - questions about layoffs & notifying province

[moscatojuices]

Hi everyone,

Lots of layoffs in the tech industry happening right now, and it's inevitable that some of us will get impacted. This is particularly concerning for people who have restrictions in their nomination certificate and must notify the province. So I've got a couple of questions/scenarios.

1) Let's say you get laid off today, and your employer gives you a 30-day termination notice which you decide to serve out. Do you notify the province that you've been laid off today, or in 30 days when your position is officially terminated? This is important to know, so that people in this position can negotiate longer termination periods if possible.

2) I know that provinces will give you 30-60 days to find new work in the event you lose your job.

• What happens if you don't find a new job in time? Is it "game over"?
• What happens if you find a new opportunity in ANOTHER province. What implications does that have for your federal PR application, bearing in mind this contained a signed Schedule 4 form committing to reside in that province? Will it mean your current province rescinds your nomination certificate?

3) Do provinces treat your job loss differently depending on where your PR application is it. For example, it's my understanding a province would tell IRCC to put your application on hold if you lose your job.

• But what if you're close to the end of your processing, for example 315 days later when you have PAL, MP, eligibility, paid RPRF etc. but haven't received a decision?
• What about if you lost your job during portal 1, portal 2, PPR but haven't received COPR?

4) At what stage does IRCC resume the processing of your PR application if you do find a new job?

• Is it when you notify the province you found a new job, and your employer submits their supporting documents?
• Is it when the province issues a new nomination certificate?
• Is it when you start your new job and/or receive an updated temporary work permit?

I've tried to find the answers everywhere to these questions, but it looks like this is all stuff that's "in the cracks" no-one knows about, and IRCC/provinces seem to be intentionally value about it.

Any input would be appreciated from VIP members or people who have been in these situations.

 

[ragolliangatan]

Hi everyone,

Lots of layoffs in the tech industry happening right now, and it's inevitable that some of us will get impacted. This is particularly concerning for people who have restrictions in their nomination certificate and must notify the province. So I've got a couple of questions/scenarios.

1) Let's say you get laid off today, and your employer gives you a 30-day termination notice which you decide to serve out. Do you notify the province that you've been laid off today, or in 30 days when your position is officially terminated? This is important to know, so that people in this position can negotiate longer termination periods if possible.

2) I know that provinces will give you 30-60 days to find new work in the event you lose your job.

• What happens if you don't find a new job in time? Is it "game over"?
• What happens if you find a new opportunity in ANOTHER province. What implications does that have for your federal PR application?

3) Do provinces treat your job loss differently depending on where your PR application is it. For example, it's my understanding a province would tell IRCC to put your application on hold if you lose your job.

• But what if you're close to the end of your processing, for example 315 days later when you have PAL, MP, eligibility etc. but haven't received a decision?
• What about if you lost your job during portal 1, portal 2, PPR but haven't received COPR?

4) At what stage does IRCC resume the processing of your PR application if you do find a new job?

• Is it when you notify the province you found a new job, and your employer submits their supporting documents?
• Is it when the province issues a new nomination certificate?
• Is it when you start your new job and/or receive an updated temporary work permit?

I've tried to find the answers everywhere to these questions, but it looks like this is all stuff that's "in the cracks" no-one knows about, and IRCC/provinces seem to be intentionally value about it.

Any input would be appreciated from VIP members or people who have been in these situations.

this is a fantastic set of questions- I'm in the tech industry but not been affected but I know friends who have been.

 

[moscatojuices]

@legalfalcon & @scylla I don't take the decision to tag you lightly but we would appreciate your thoughts on these technical questions.

this is a fantastic set of questions- I'm in the tech industry but not been affected but I know friends who have been.

Thanks man. The last thing we want after this gruelling wait for non-EE PNP applications is to be so close to the finish line, then lose our jobs due to no fault of our own, and the provinces and IRCC turn around and make it "our problem" while people who get approved in 2, 6, 9 months never have to worry about it again.

 

[scylla]

Hi everyone,

Lots of layoffs in the tech industry happening right now, and it's inevitable that some of us will get impacted. This is particularly concerning for people who have restrictions in their nomination certificate and must notify the province. So I've got a couple of questions/scenarios.

1) Let's say you get laid off today, and your employer gives you a 30-day termination notice which you decide to serve out. Do you notify the province that you've been laid off today, or in 30 days when your position is officially terminated? This is important to know, so that people in this position can negotiate longer termination periods if possible.

2) I know that provinces will give you 30-60 days to find new work in the event you lose your job.

• What happens if you don't find a new job in time? Is it "game over"?
• What happens if you find a new opportunity in ANOTHER province. What implications does that have for your federal PR application, bearing in mind this contained a signed Schedule 4 form committing to reside in that province? Will it mean your current province rescinds your nomination certificate?

3) Do provinces treat your job loss differently depending on where your PR application is it. For example, it's my understanding a province would tell IRCC to put your application on hold if you lose your job.

• But what if you're close to the end of your processing, for example 315 days later when you have PAL, MP, eligibility, paid RPRF etc. but haven't received a decision?
• What about if you lost your job during portal 1, portal 2, PPR but haven't received COPR?

4) At what stage does IRCC resume the processing of your PR application if you do find a new job?

• Is it when you notify the province you found a new job, and your employer submits their supporting documents?
• Is it when the province issues a new nomination certificate?
• Is it when you start your new job and/or receive an updated temporary work permit?

I've tried to find the answers everywhere to these questions, but it looks like this is all stuff that's "in the cracks" no-one knows about, and IRCC/provinces seem to be intentionally value about it.

Any input would be appreciated from VIP members or people who have been in these situations.

Most of these questions are too technical for me.

A new job does need to be found if the application is still in the eligibility stage of the federal process. Otherwise the applicant no longer meets the requirements for the nomination. I can't comment on how far into the federal processing a person is "safe". The new job needs to be in the nominating province.

 

[moscatojuices]

Most of these questions are too technical for me.

A new job does need to be found if the application is still in the eligibility stage of the federal process. Otherwise the applicant no longer meets the requirements for the nomination. I can't comment on how far into the federal processing a person is "safe". The new job needs to be in the nominating province.

That's okay syclla, thank you. Just to clarify, what if you applied for PR with a job offer restriction. Say it's me:

• My eligibility is currently passed per an IRCC agent, but no final decision is made
• I lose my job, and I don't find another job in the deadline provided by the province

Does that threaten the eligibility, even if it was previously passed?

 

[Taran D]

Most of these questions are too technical for me.

A new job does need to be found if the application is still in the eligibility stage of the federal process. Otherwise the applicant no longer meets the requirements for the nomination. I can't comment on how far into the federal processing a person is "safe". The new job needs to be in the nominating province.

One of my friend was laid off after EOI was received, she asked about submitting recent 3 payslips, hence the nomination was cancelled.

 

[scylla]

That's okay syclla, thank you. Just to clarify, what if you applied for PR with a job offer restriction. Say it's me:

• My eligibility is currently passed per an IRCC agent, but no final decision is made
• I lose my job, and I don't find another job in the deadline provided by the province

Does that threaten the eligibility, even if it was previously passed?

I think there's always a chance this could be a problem until COPR is received.

 

[moscatojuices]

I'm in the process of figuring some of this out. Does anyone know if you have to notify both IRCC and the nominating province, or just the province?

 

[Taran D]

I'm in the process of figuring some of this out. Does anyone know if you have to notify both IRCC and the nominating province, or just the province?

If one has not got province nomination certificate as yet then has to inform province as it is written in nomination emails. But don't know about EE.

 

[legalfalcon]

@legalfalcon & @scylla I don't take the decision to tag you lightly but we would appreciate your thoughts on these technical questions.



Thanks man. The last thing we want after this gruelling wait for non-EE PNP applications is to be so close to the finish line, then lose our jobs due to no fault of our own, and the provinces and IRCC turn around and make it "our problem" while people who get approved in 2, 6, 9 months never have to worry about it again.

There are two issues here.

1. Whether the job was a prerequisite to your PNP nomination (eg NOC specific etc.)
If this was the case, then you will have to inform the nominating province. Some Provinces take it more seriously than others. For eg BC, they will revoke your nomination if you lose your job, based on what nomination you received from the province. BC processing manual states:



As you see, this is very circumstantial.

2. IF you were awarded points for a job in the Province, irrespective of the NOC, job duties etc.
In this case, as long as you find a new job, in the nominating province, given that you are not on a closed WP, you should not have a problem, and you may not even be obligated to report it to the nominating province after the PNP nomination has been awarded.

Bottom line is, you will have to read the nominating Province regulations and comply with them. Also, since this question is very individualized, the answer is very generic.

As in law most of the time, the answer is "it depends."

 

[ragolliangatan]

There are two issues here.

1. Whether the job was a prerequisite to your PNP nomination (eg NOC specific etc.)
If this was the case, then you will have to inform the nominating province. Some Provinces take it more seriously than others. For eg BC, they will revoke your nomination if you lose your job, based on what nomination you received from the province. BC processing manual states:



As you see, this is very circumstantial.

2. IF you were awarded points for a job in the Province, irrespective of the NOC, job duties etc.
In this case, as long as you find a new job, in the nominating province, given that you are not on a closed WP, you should not have a problem, and you may not even be obligated to report it to the nominating province after the PNP nomination has been awarded.

Bottom line is, you will have to read the nominating Province regulations and comply with them. Also, since this question is very individualized, the answer is very generic.

As in law most of the time, the answer is "it depends."

so, after you have received PR, do you still need to report a change in employment to BC PNP or is it only during processing? My understanding is that once you've obtained PR your nomination is technically closed- but I might just be misreading the Post-Nomination Guide for BC PNP

 

[moscatojuices]

I'd like to thank everyone (esp @legalfalcon) for taking the time to respond. I believe it is the case that in ALL of the PNP scheme, nominees are required to disclose changes to their job including termination/layoff etc. This is non-negotiable for all provinces as far as I can see. And if in doubt, DO IT ANYWAY!

To add to this, I spoke with SINP and here's how it went.

In relation to questions 1 & 4 from my original post: The concern here isn't about what to disclose, but when. If your employer tells you today (20 January 2023): "Hey buddy, I'm letting you go. I'll give you 30 days (let's say 20 February 2023) to finish up." - in this case, you would notify the province on 20 February that your job has been terminated. That's because it's legally the date your job is ending, so no need to give the province a head start on starting the "clock" if you find a new job.

Tip: Negotiate as hard with your employer as you can to extend this termination date, ask them to give you AS MANY days as possible, push it to 2, 3, 4 months if you can. Ask if you can go on unpaid leave for parts of it so you can work on finding a new job.

WHEN you notify the province, at least in the case of SK, you will get 45 days to find a new job. The GOOD news is your Federal PR application won't be "put on hold." IRCC will keep processing it, and it could be the case that with the time you've bought yourself, you get PR before you found a new job (especially if you're struggling).

It's if you DON'T DISCLOSE it you'll be in deep shit, because IRCC can ask you for paystubs/employment letter at any time. And at that stage if it is discovered you hid this from the province, you can be assured the province will terminate your certificate and ban you from their program, and your PR application and dreams to stay in Canada will become dust. And if you did disclose it and IRCC asks for your pay/letter, and you say you lost your job, IRCC will redirect to the province to check if you disclosed it and if they want to keep supporting the nomination.

In relation to question 2: SINP was very vague, other to say they'll first give you 45-days to find a new job. I mean, the last several jobs I had took 2-3 months to get, so I'm not sure how you get a skilled job in that amount of time. They said if you can't find in 45 days, you have to ask for an extension and then we enter a grey era. We don't know how much additional time they'll give, and how many extension requests they grant.

They also said they prefer if you found a job in the same NOC as what you had as "it's easier for us to process", but that's not to say you couldn't get a job in another NOC. How a case processing officer treats that... I don't know.

In relation to question 3: It appears to be the case that this stuff is very strict. Basically:

• If you lose your job despite getting AOR/PAL/MP, and you come across a situation where you lost a job and can't find a new one in time, the province (at least SK) will cancel your certificate. I think this is very harsh if the job market becomes difficult.
• If you lose your job AFTER getting portal (let's say you get fired straight away for something, but get portal, but not ECOPR) then..., agent tells me it's "complicated" but you still need to tell the province. Hence we always tell people to not leave jobs until ECOPR.

Note above is my best understanding from speaking to a phone agent, and whether it comes from an agent or an SINP email it cannot be 100% relied upon due to the complexities of immigration law.

As falcon said, all of this is a very grey zone and "it depends" is totally right.

 

[legalfalcon]

so, after you have received PR, do you still need to report a change in employment to BC PNP or is it only during processing? My understanding is that once you've obtained PR your nomination is technically closed- but I might just be misreading the Post-Nomination Guide for BC PNP

After you receive your PR status, i.e. after IRCC approves the PR application and you land in Canada as a PR, you have constitutional rights. One of these rights is to work and settle in any part of Canada.

However, during processing, provincial and federal, of your circumstances change, you have an obligation to inform the nominating province, subject to their regulations, as I previously stated.

 

[Yothisjatt]

I'd like to thank everyone (esp @legalfalcon) for taking the time to respond. I believe it is the case that in ALL of the PNP scheme, nominees are required to disclose changes to their job including termination/layoff etc. This is non-negotiable for all provinces as far as I can see. And if in doubt, DO IT ANYWAY!

To add to this, I spoke with SINP and here's how it went.

In relation to questions 1 & 4 from my original post: The concern here isn't about what to disclose, but when. If your employer tells you today (20 January 2023): "Hey buddy, I'm letting you go. I'll give you 30 days (let's say 20 February 2023) to finish up." - in this case, you would notify the province on 20 February that your job has been terminated. That's because it's legally the date your job is ending, so no need to give the province a head start on starting the "clock" if you find a new job.

Tip: Negotiate as hard with your employer as you can to extend this termination date, ask them to give you AS MANY days as possible, push it to 2, 3, 4 months if you can. Ask if you can go on unpaid leave for parts of it so you can work on finding a new job.

WHEN you notify the province, at least in the case of SK, you will get 45 days to find a new job. The GOOD news is your Federal PR application won't be "put on hold." IRCC will keep processing it, and it could be the case that with the time you've bought yourself, you get PR before you found a new job (especially if you're struggling).

It's if you DON'T DISCLOSE it you'll be in deep shit, because IRCC can ask you for paystubs/employment letter at any time. And at that stage if it is discovered you hid this from the province, you can be assured the province will terminate your certificate and ban you from their program, and your PR application and dreams to stay in Canada will become dust. And if you did disclose it and IRCC asks for your pay/letter, and you say you lost your job, IRCC will redirect to the province to check if you disclosed it and if they want to keep supporting the nomination.

In relation to question 2: SINP was very vague, other to say they'll first give you 45-days to find a new job. I mean, the last several jobs I had took 2-3 months to get, so I'm not sure how you get a skilled job in that amount of time. They said if you can't find in 45 days, you have to ask for an extension and then we enter a grey era. We don't know how much additional time they'll give, and how many extension requests they grant.

They also said they prefer if you found a job in the same NOC as what you had as "it's easier for us to process", but that's not to say you couldn't get a job in another NOC. How a case processing officer treats that... I don't know.

In relation to question 3: It appears to be the case that this stuff is very strict. Basically:

• If you lose your job despite getting AOR/PAL/MP, and you come across a situation where you lost a job and can't find a new one in time, the province (at least SK) will cancel your certificate. I think this is very harsh if the job market becomes difficult.
• If you lose your job AFTER getting portal (let's say you get fired straight away for something, but get portal, but not ECOPR) then..., agent tells me it's "complicated" but you still need to tell the province. Hence we always tell people to not leave jobs until ECOPR.

Note above is my best understanding from speaking to a phone agent, and whether it comes from an agent or an SINP email it cannot be 100% relied upon due to the complexities of immigration law.

As falcon said, all of this is a very grey zone and "it depends" is totally right.

Good morning, please help as i got lay off notice from company which i was working for in may and after few days i got letter from SINP that i have to provide them with new Job approval letter from SINP but hard to fill is closed and after few days i got portal 1 and portal 2 and they gave me 45 days in the letter and i am very stressed that what i should do as hard to fill is closed and i am not gonna get JAL . Is there anyone gone through same situation. Please help me

 

[moscatojuices]

Good morning, please help as i got lay off notice from company which i was working for in may and after few days i got letter from SINP that i have to provide them with new Job approval letter from SINP but hard to fill is closed and after few days i got portal 1 and portal 2 and they gave me 45 days in the letter and i am very stressed that what i should do as hard to fill is closed and i am not gonna get JAL . Is there anyone gone through same situation. Please help me

If you got portal 1 then you've crossed the finish line. They generally can't cancel your application now, even if you've lost your job. I'm pretty sure you'll get eCOPR soon and anything SINP sends you won't matter because you'll be a permanent resident.