Finding jobs in Canada in IT Industry - What is the perfect age??
- Thread starter nidakh
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I guess the issue is with your job position, Business Analyst. As to my personal knowledge, this position is half technical and half business related, so it does require some specific knowledge and understanding of Canadian economy and business.nidakh said:I guess you did not read my assumptions.....As I said I am very good at my job and have at least three to four recruiters tell me that if I just had a month or two of Canadian experience things could be very different......IT is more than technical knowledge specifically outside India.....I am a Business Analyst......I am not saying I am perfect but I am pretty damn sure I am very good at my job and I have strong and successful professional career working for an American Software Company developing and enhancing their leading software for top tier American Insurance Companies....My company considered me one of the pillars of their team....Having said all this 8)
I just wanted to have a positive discussion about how I can improve my job search and some motivation from people who might have gone through similar situations before they landed a job.......People keep telling me you take on an average of 6 months to land a decent job and I just thought what better place to discuss this other than this fourm
I don't know how good you are, but according to your words, you are really at your job, so were you able to prove your technical expertise to the Canadian employers at interviews, to show that you can start working right away? does your resume reflect and emphasize the skills your have? are those skills and techs related to what Canadian employers are using?
I have said on this forum many times, many Indians and Chinese IT workers can easily find good jobs in Canada regardless of their ages. I've seen whole IT depts or R&D dept sconsist tons of Java, .net, php dev, electrical engineers, pen testers, network designers strictly from India.
I might not be the best person to give advice in this manner since I graduated from a Canadian university and at the time of graduation I had 16 months of Co-op experience, but maybe what I have to say might be useful to you. I am an electrical and computer engineer working in automation and information systems (kinda/sorta similar to IT). Finding a job in Canada is not a simple task for anyone, me included. I was lucky that one of the companies I worked for a Co-op student liked me so they offered me a contract to work on a project. During the time I was working as a contractor I applied everywhere. When I say everywhere I mean everywhere. It got to the point that one time I got a call from a company and I had no idea what the company was/what they do.
- I found out that a very large percentage of the jobs out there don't necessarily mean they are hiring. They are just baiting the hook to see if their perfect candidate will bite.
- Another problem is how the online job sites filter some of the resumes, your resume might get missed if they don't share some keywords with the job posting. The solution to that is to tailor your resume for each position. If you use a generic resume to apply to jobs, I won't be surprised if you don't have any luck. Quality over quantity.
- Cover letters speak more about you as a candidate then a resume does. Everyone can make a good resume, but a cover letter is hard to nail since it involves a decent amount of research about the company, business and the job duties.
- Job/career fairs is where I had the most luck. Selling myself when speaking face to face with a recruiter is far easier then hoping my resume gets picked out of the giant lot that recruiters have to see.
- I found out that a very large percentage of the jobs out there don't necessarily mean they are hiring. They are just baiting the hook to see if their perfect candidate will bite.
- Another problem is how the online job sites filter some of the resumes, your resume might get missed if they don't share some keywords with the job posting. The solution to that is to tailor your resume for each position. If you use a generic resume to apply to jobs, I won't be surprised if you don't have any luck. Quality over quantity.
- Cover letters speak more about you as a candidate then a resume does. Everyone can make a good resume, but a cover letter is hard to nail since it involves a decent amount of research about the company, business and the job duties.
- Job/career fairs is where I had the most luck. Selling myself when speaking face to face with a recruiter is far easier then hoping my resume gets picked out of the giant lot that recruiters have to see.
Thanks for the inputs....My Resume to begin with was not great but over the past few months it has evolved into a decent one and I have tried to use the typical key words, the ones usually companies are looking for, obviously the ones that I have experience withmoelaghil said:
Cover Letter is something I think I haven't laid much stress on and probably I have to work on!
Job fairs is something I haven't tried yet!
When it comes to building your resume, use action statements (google it). My understanding is that you did a lot for your previous employer and therefore action statements will be perfect for you. Limit your resume to 2 pages max with no cluttering. Your resume needs to be visually appealing, if the indentation is not consistent, font is to small or even if the margins or font don't make sense your resume could be thrown away.
What I have done in the past is, come up with 8 to 9 really good statements for every section in my resume that highlight my qualities. When I apply for a job I would only pick 3 of these 8 to 9 statements depending on the job posting and what they are looking for. This helps in tailoring the resume for a specific job, apply for more jobs while preventing cluttering of the resume.
As for reference letters from your previous employer/colleagues.
What I have done in the past is, come up with 8 to 9 really good statements for every section in my resume that highlight my qualities. When I apply for a job I would only pick 3 of these 8 to 9 statements depending on the job posting and what they are looking for. This helps in tailoring the resume for a specific job, apply for more jobs while preventing cluttering of the resume.
As for reference letters from your previous employer/colleagues.
nidakh said:
andremarques19751
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I would like to add my 2 cents in this topic.
I am on a Open Work Permit for 2yrs, NOC 2171.
The first job I got here in Canada after 1 month searching is as a Programmer making 90K/year. I am in this position right now.
What I had when I got here:
- no canadian experience
- 15 years of experience in IT in Brazil
- Msc in Computer Science in Brazil
- a resume reviewed by a coach to fit local standards
- fluent english (really fluent, you need to be able to understand the recruiter when he calls you, and most likely his english is not the best one, as he is probably an immigrant like you)
What I used:
- indeed.ca - I applied for positions that are announced by the companies, not by headhunters. This is one of the things I learned from the coach
- patience - I was invited to 1 interview on every 20 applications
- start narrow - expand as needed - apply to a position that really fits your knowledge, adapt depending on the outcome
- know your skills - I never applied for DBA, help desk, project manager, open source stuff, although I have experience in all of these. I am a programmer, Microsoft shop - C#,VB.NET. Look for the keywords you are good at
Result:
- I did about 5 interviews and got 3 job offers at the end. Accepted 1, refused the second and the third was too late, I had already accepted the first
- Even many weeks after hired I still received feedback from other applications. It is crazy, sometimes it just take months for them to get back to you. I was hire in Feb2016 and on Aug2016 I was invited to an interview for a position I applied n January 2016. Crazy.
Things I learned:
- They don't care about your visa - all I was asked was - 'are you eligible to legally work in Canada?' That's all. If PR, citizen, work permit, whatever.
- They don't care about your age - I'm 40+, look like 40+, no one ever asked how old I am, they can pretty much infer it by your resume
- They don't care about your nationality - of course they can know that again from resume, but no one cares. My team has 17 people, 2 canadians. 15 who cares.
- They DO care about your english - again, on the first phone call they will know if you can speak or not with the default basic questions - 'why do you move to Canada?' / 'tell me about your career?' / 'where do you see yourself in the next 5 years?' (Really??? Really...)
- They DO care about your skills - you need to know ho to do the things you listed. You need to know well. You might get tested. I did, but not on the one I accepted.
What else:
- I'm now also helping on recruiting IT positions, so I can talk a little bit about the other side (less experience here, but here it goes):
- VERY,VERY,VERY unlikely to get even a call if not in Canada and not eligible to work. I see no sponsorship, no LMIA, no one willing to bet on you. Not impossible, but extremely unlikely...
- I receive about 10 resumes for a position from HR after they knock down around 190 others. From these 10 I select 5 based on experience related to the position (keywords, keywords, I read them all but I use CTRL+F...)
- These 5 will get a call from HR, 2 will be interviewed. Why??? The english of the other 3 was not good enough. I meant it, happens a LOT!!!!
- 2 are interviewed, we select the less weird
So, in a nutshell:
- Be here on a working status, have your english and skills and be normal, that's ALL!
Good luck friends!
Andre
I am on a Open Work Permit for 2yrs, NOC 2171.
The first job I got here in Canada after 1 month searching is as a Programmer making 90K/year. I am in this position right now.
What I had when I got here:
- no canadian experience
- 15 years of experience in IT in Brazil
- Msc in Computer Science in Brazil
- a resume reviewed by a coach to fit local standards
- fluent english (really fluent, you need to be able to understand the recruiter when he calls you, and most likely his english is not the best one, as he is probably an immigrant like you)
What I used:
- indeed.ca - I applied for positions that are announced by the companies, not by headhunters. This is one of the things I learned from the coach
- patience - I was invited to 1 interview on every 20 applications
- start narrow - expand as needed - apply to a position that really fits your knowledge, adapt depending on the outcome
- know your skills - I never applied for DBA, help desk, project manager, open source stuff, although I have experience in all of these. I am a programmer, Microsoft shop - C#,VB.NET. Look for the keywords you are good at
Result:
- I did about 5 interviews and got 3 job offers at the end. Accepted 1, refused the second and the third was too late, I had already accepted the first
- Even many weeks after hired I still received feedback from other applications. It is crazy, sometimes it just take months for them to get back to you. I was hire in Feb2016 and on Aug2016 I was invited to an interview for a position I applied n January 2016. Crazy.
Things I learned:
- They don't care about your visa - all I was asked was - 'are you eligible to legally work in Canada?' That's all. If PR, citizen, work permit, whatever.
- They don't care about your age - I'm 40+, look like 40+, no one ever asked how old I am, they can pretty much infer it by your resume
- They don't care about your nationality - of course they can know that again from resume, but no one cares. My team has 17 people, 2 canadians. 15 who cares.
- They DO care about your english - again, on the first phone call they will know if you can speak or not with the default basic questions - 'why do you move to Canada?' / 'tell me about your career?' / 'where do you see yourself in the next 5 years?' (Really??? Really...)
- They DO care about your skills - you need to know ho to do the things you listed. You need to know well. You might get tested. I did, but not on the one I accepted.
What else:
- I'm now also helping on recruiting IT positions, so I can talk a little bit about the other side (less experience here, but here it goes):
- VERY,VERY,VERY unlikely to get even a call if not in Canada and not eligible to work. I see no sponsorship, no LMIA, no one willing to bet on you. Not impossible, but extremely unlikely...
- I receive about 10 resumes for a position from HR after they knock down around 190 others. From these 10 I select 5 based on experience related to the position (keywords, keywords, I read them all but I use CTRL+F...)
- These 5 will get a call from HR, 2 will be interviewed. Why??? The english of the other 3 was not good enough. I meant it, happens a LOT!!!!
- 2 are interviewed, we select the less weird
So, in a nutshell:
- Be here on a working status, have your english and skills and be normal, that's ALL!
Good luck friends!
Andre
Thanks will surely try these tips......So I have really good references from my employers and American clients but what is the best time to showcase these because I guess they are only asked for when you have cleared a round or two....Is there any other way??moelaghil said:
andremarques19751 said:
Thanks for your inputs.....I am not sure what I am doing wrong......I have an Open Work Permit, I have good communication skills (I can say that because I was able to build a very strong connect with my American clients over phone from offshore and face to face should be easier)
and I am able to get through to recruiters (I mean recently I asked a recruiting firm (second largest in Canada) when I had an interview with them if there was any feedback with regards to my resume or my answers or anything else which was inappropriate but I had the same response.....You did extremely well and companies love persons like you who answer clearly and honestly
One thing I can say though I worked for only one company in the past, so my job searching skills are really bad to start with at least and now I have started to get a hang of things but my patience is fading day by day!
+1 for your inputs
Thanks @moelaghil and @andremarques19751[sup][/sup]! Very valid and helpful points.
I hear a lot about Pain Letters replacing the traditional cover letters. How valid and better would it be to have it instead of cover letters.
I hear a lot about Pain Letters replacing the traditional cover letters. How valid and better would it be to have it instead of cover letters.
I only heard about pain letters from you, so I did a little bit of research. Honestly I think it would be one of these things that would work on some people but not others. It's definitely worth it!
I think any method of displaying your interest, being memorable and standing out directly to the hiring manager vs HR is better than the traditional way of doing things. I once contacted a hiring manager directly through my contacts and invited him out for coffee. I ended up getting interviewed for that position after he pushed my resume to HR.
I think any method of displaying your interest, being memorable and standing out directly to the hiring manager vs HR is better than the traditional way of doing things. I once contacted a hiring manager directly through my contacts and invited him out for coffee. I ended up getting interviewed for that position after he pushed my resume to HR.
teekayx said:
Just wanted to throw in my experience (which is actually pretty similar to that of Andre) in case it gives further hope to your cause.
I am also currently here on an open work permit, have been for over 2 years now, and been working the whole time for the same company, NOC 2174, excellent salary, bonuses, health care, etc.
I also had no Canadian experience when I applied. I had 3 years experience in my home country, and a masters degree in Computer Science. Fluent in English (it's my first language).
I didn't use any job sites or recruitment agencies since I'm in quite a small and specific field (video games); I sent resumes directly to the studios I wanted to work for.
One thing to note is that when I first began job hunting I didn't have a work permit (I was still in my home country), and I got very few responses, and even fewer interviews (realistically 3 years experience just wasn't enough for me to be worth the time and expense a company would have to endure to bring me over). But then I got the work permit (through the IEC program), and suddenly I started getting interviews. So I completely agree with Andre that being eligible to work in Canada is crucial (but again, how you get the permit or what type it is really doesn't matter)
Likewise, I haven't noticed age or nationality to be a factor. Where I'm working now more than 50% of our staff are foreign nationals, and they're anything from 20 to 60 years old. Skills are what matters. Every interview I ever got came with a programming test, so it helps to prepare for that (and you can find many examples of typical programming tests given by Microsoft/Google/Amazon online).
Also, not sure how much this applies outside of the video games industry, but I feel like having code to show off goes a really long way. If you've written something in your spare time, whether it be some tiny little desktop widget or some huge, super cool iOS app, put it up on github and throw a link to it in your resume. It shows employers that coding is more than just a job to you.
Hope this helps!
I am also currently here on an open work permit, have been for over 2 years now, and been working the whole time for the same company, NOC 2174, excellent salary, bonuses, health care, etc.
I also had no Canadian experience when I applied. I had 3 years experience in my home country, and a masters degree in Computer Science. Fluent in English (it's my first language).
I didn't use any job sites or recruitment agencies since I'm in quite a small and specific field (video games); I sent resumes directly to the studios I wanted to work for.
One thing to note is that when I first began job hunting I didn't have a work permit (I was still in my home country), and I got very few responses, and even fewer interviews (realistically 3 years experience just wasn't enough for me to be worth the time and expense a company would have to endure to bring me over). But then I got the work permit (through the IEC program), and suddenly I started getting interviews. So I completely agree with Andre that being eligible to work in Canada is crucial (but again, how you get the permit or what type it is really doesn't matter)
Likewise, I haven't noticed age or nationality to be a factor. Where I'm working now more than 50% of our staff are foreign nationals, and they're anything from 20 to 60 years old. Skills are what matters. Every interview I ever got came with a programming test, so it helps to prepare for that (and you can find many examples of typical programming tests given by Microsoft/Google/Amazon online).
Also, not sure how much this applies outside of the video games industry, but I feel like having code to show off goes a really long way. If you've written something in your spare time, whether it be some tiny little desktop widget or some huge, super cool iOS app, put it up on github and throw a link to it in your resume. It shows employers that coding is more than just a job to you.
Hope this helps!