Finally got the green light, going but not quite-- Help from the pros? (Leon?)

[walterg74]

Hi folks,

After several coming and goings, translating documents, relinquishing 25+ year-old previous PRs, etc, we finally received the green light!

We got the Immigrant visa, valid until april 2015, and rest of the docs to hand over when we land...

As background, we had applied through Quebec, and got my copy of the CSQ as well.


So our original plan, since we were not yet quite decided on the plan, was to wait it out until the end of the validity period of the visa f we were still not decided, and then go do the landing get our PR cards, etc. and come back to our home country if we still had not defined things, being the requisite of 2 out of 5 years to keep PR status.

While the limit would technically be April 2015, we ran into an event that is cutting our time... Luckily it is a happy event, since my wife and I are expecting a baby ;D

I haven't informed of this because of course baby's not born yet so no changes yet...

Since she's due in January 2015, that cuts our time since we won't be able to go from January on and also not convenienent the 2 months prior to that...

So... This sped up a little our plans to at least go and do the landing, and this is where I need the help of you guys...

- First, is it valid, or would they hold it against us if we go do an initial "recon" trip with the goal of leaving shortly?

- Is there anything I should say (or not say) when we arrive in Canada regarding this?

- Our intention is to go do the landing, trigger the PR cards process, hang around maybe 2 weeks and then return (and in those 2 weeks visit around Toronto, Quebec and Montreal), also getting bank account open, SIN if applicable, etc.

- I know that PR cards are only sent within Canada and take 4-6 weeks to arrive, but I have family in Canada, so my intention is to give my uncle's address in Toronto as where I would be initially, and have the cards sent there, which he would later Overnight-FedEx to me or something...


Any advice, or comments you guys that are so knowledgeable on these topics can give me?

Thanks!!

 

[CanV]

You should be fine to land. I am not sure if you need to tell them anything, Leon may know. Keep in mind though your child doesnt become automatically a PR, you will have to apply to sponsor him/her. If born in Canada then automatically Canadian.

 

[Leon]

If you are a Quebec applicant, you should land in Quebec and you should tell them that you do not have an address yet but will let them know when you do. If they demand one, give them the hotel where you will be staying for the first night. They will not send your PR card there so you do not have to worry about it getting lost.

The reason for this is that people have actually been refused to land in some cases due to giving an outside province address because they might believe that you do not intend to stay in Quebec as a Quebec applicant.

After arriving in Quebec, you have two options for your PR card. You can arrange a PO. Box or a UPS address and inform CIC of this address as your PR card address or you can give your uncles address in Toronto. Either should work. You can set up the PO. Box or UPS address with forwarding to your home address or to your uncle. I see no reason why either of these methods would not work. You can apply for a SIN in Quebec because then you already have one for later. You should not bother apply for health care if you are not staying. Then you can go visit your uncle.

There is a 3rd option and that is simply not getting a PR card this time. In order to return to Canada, you would then need a PR travel document which can however be a pain to get and can take weeks or months depending on the visa office and you would have to figure that time into your plans for the maximum time you can stay outside.


As for your baby, CanV has made a good point in that your baby will not automatically get PR. You will have to sponsor her for PR and you must be in Canada in order to do that. This is a pain especially for people who are not visa exempt to Canada. When the time comes that you want to move to Canada, you would have to apply for a visit visa for your child which may be denied based on your intentions not being to visit. If you were to get the visit visa, you can come to Canada with your child and sponsor her for PR but as a visitor, she may not be eligible for health care until she gets her PR. There is another visa you could apply for called a TRP which however means that you would have to do an inland PR sponsorship which takes much longer but also means she would have health care during that time. If you are unsuccessful in getting a visa for your child, you would have to leave your wife and child behind while you go to Canada alone and do the sponsorship which can take months or even years to get processed depending on the visa office.

Another option would be to give birth in Canada but then you must figure in the cost of delivery. Quebec makes exceptions for the health care waiting period for pregnancy and childbirth but you are not really eligible for health care as a visitor so if you apply for a health card when you know your intention is only to visit on that trip, it is possible that health care will later decide that you were not eligible and cancel your coverage retroactively and send you the bill.

Another option would be to delay your landing. You would have to ask the visa office if they consider your file closed or if they would because you haven't landed yet, allow you to return your visas, wait for your child to be born and then add your child to your application and get visas for all of you to land together.

One thing you can absolutely not do would be to delay your landing without adding the baby. Having a baby changes your family composition, therefore renders your visas invalid so you may not land on your visas if the baby is already born unless you add her and get a visa for her too.

 

[walterg74]

Hi Leon, thanks for taking the time to reply and with so much info!!

Commenting/asking based on your feedback:

If you are a Quebec applicant, you should land in Quebec and you should tell them that you do not have an address yet but will let them know when you do. If they demand one, give them the hotel where you will be staying for the first night. They will not send your PR card there so you do not have to worry about it getting lost.

The reason for this is that people have actually been refused to land in some cases due to giving an outside province address because they might believe that you do not intend to stay in Quebec as a Quebec applicant.

For starters, I cannot land in Quebec. As is the case with many other countries I would think, we don't have flights to Quebec, only to Toronto, and from what I read you have to see the immigration officer on your first point of landing, don't you? As this (again in my head) would be very common, why would they deny based on that? Would it be of any help if I show maybe some hotel reservation or something in Quebec?

After arriving in Quebec, you have two options for your PR card. You can arrange a PO. Box or a UPS address and inform CIC of this address as your PR card address or you can give your uncles address in Toronto. Either should work. You can set up the PO. Box or UPS address with forwarding to your home address or to your uncle. I see no reason why either of these methods would not work. You can apply for a SIN in Quebec because then you already have one for later. You should not bother apply for health care if you are not staying. Then you can go visit your uncle.

Well, from the CIC website, they recommend you give an address right away so that the PR card process starts right then, otherwise you have to apply for it, etc. which is a whole new process that while it may be easy, what's the point in delaying it when you can simply request it on landing?

There is a 3rd option and that is simply not getting a PR card this time. In order to return to Canada, you would then need a PR travel document which can however be a pain to get and can take weeks or months depending on the visa office and you would have to figure that time into your plans for the maximum time you can stay outside.

This is precisely what I want to avoid with getting the PR card asap... I don't want to deal with the process of requesting a travel document later, having to justify absences, etc.etc when I can simplify all this by just having the card, don't you think?

As for your baby, CanV has made a good point in that your baby will not automatically get PR. You will have to sponsor her for PR and you must be in Canada in order to do that. This is a pain especially for people who are not visa exempt to Canada. When the time comes that you want to move to Canada, you would have to apply for a visit visa for your child which may be denied based on your intentions not being to visit. If you were to get the visit visa, you can come to Canada with your child and sponsor her for PR but as a visitor, she may not be eligible for health care until she gets her PR. There is another visa you could apply for called a TRP which however means that you would have to do an inland PR sponsorship which takes much longer but also means she would have health care during that time. If you are unsuccessful in getting a visa for your child, you would have to leave your wife and child behind while you go to Canada alone and do the sponsorship which can take months or even years to get processed depending on the visa office.

Yes, I knew the baby doesn't get PR automatically. Didn't know I'd have to be in Canada to apply/sponsor. How exactly would that work? Do I have to just start the process from there, be constantly in Canada while the sponsorship is resolved or what?

Another option would be to give birth in Canada but then you must figure in the cost of delivery. Quebec makes exceptions for the health care waiting period for pregnancy and childbirth but you are not really eligible for health care as a visitor so if you apply for a health card when you know your intention is only to visit on that trip, it is possible that health care will later decide that you were not eligible and cancel your coverage retroactively and send you the bill.

Yeah, that's not really an option for personal reasons. Additionally, wouldn't it be seen as a good thing that we're not trying to impose on the Canadian health system?

Another option would be to delay your landing. You would have to ask the visa office if they consider your file closed or if they would because you haven't landed yet, allow you to return your visas, wait for your child to be born and then add your child to your application and get visas for all of you to land together.

Hmm this sounds even more risky, as it can happen that we lose everything? Also considering it is a two-step process (quebec first, then federal) wouldn't it also mean that I would have to re-apply through quebec to get the baby in? Seems way too complicated...

One thing you can absolutely not do would be to delay your landing without adding the baby. Having a baby changes your family composition, therefore renders your visas invalid so you may not land on your visas if the baby is already born unless you add her and get a visa for her too.

Yes, that I'm clear on. Which is why the plans we were considering was to land around middle/end of august or beginning of September at the most. But of course, trying to determine these items first to make sure we don't screw up... :-X

 

[Leon]

For starters, I cannot land in Quebec. As is the case with many other countries I would think, we don't have flights to Quebec, only to Toronto, and from what I read you have to see the immigration officer on your first point of landing, don't you? As this (again in my head) would be very common, why would they deny based on that? Would it be of any help if I show maybe some hotel reservation or something in Quebec?

It is ok to land outside Quebec if you can convince the immigration officer that you are going to Quebec. I would suggest that you get a flight ticket taking you from Toronto to Quebec shortly after your landing. If asked, you can show the ticket and state that you are going to Quebec right away or after spending a couple of days in Toronto.

Well, from the CIC website, they recommend you give an address right away so that the PR card process starts right then, otherwise you have to apply for it, etc. which is a whole new process that while it may be easy, what's the point in delaying it when you can simply request it on landing?

The problem in your case is that you do not have a Quebec address to give which will make the immigration officer suspicious that it is not your intent to settle in Quebec. As said, if you fail to convince the immigration officer that you intend to settle in Quebec, they can refuse your landing. This has actually happened to people. I am not joking about that. Therefore, in your case, because you can not give a Quebec address right away, it would be better not to give one at all when you land. Once you have landed, you can phone CIC and give them an address, either your uncles or an address you have arranged in Quebec.

Yes, I knew the baby doesn't get PR automatically. Didn't know I'd have to be in Canada to apply/sponsor. How exactly would that work? Do I have to just start the process from there, be constantly in Canada while the sponsorship is resolved or what?

Yes, in order to sponsor, you must be residing in Canada when you apply and during the processing. You can take a short vacation to visit your family if you have to leave them behind but if immigration finds that you are living outside Canada again with your family, they will cancel your application without giving you a chance to return first. I personally would not risk leaving for more than 2-3 weeks max.

Hmm this sounds even more risky, as it can happen that we lose everything? Also considering it is a two-step process (quebec first, then federal) wouldn't it also mean that I would have to re-apply through quebec to get the baby in? Seems way too complicated...

Technically, you are supposed to be able to add a dependant as long as you haven't landed yet. The visa office might however see it differently :-/ If you want this option, you should contact them and ask. I also remember a case of a husband in your situation who landed himself as his wife had complications and could not go. He did not commit misrepresentation because the baby was not born when he landed and his visa office agreed to add the baby to the application and issue a new visa for his wife. Otherwise, he could have sponsored them both.

 

[walterg74]

It is ok to land outside Quebec if you can convince the immigration officer that you are going to Quebec. I would suggest that you get a flight ticket taking you from Toronto to Quebec shortly after your landing. If asked, you can show the ticket and state that you are going to Quebec right away or after spending a couple of days in Toronto.

Right, the idea was to stay a few days in Toronto visiting, and then move on to Montreal/Quebec City. I can buy a ticket (would train be better to not deal with the hassle and extra time of planes while at the same time good enough to convince the officer?), and I guess since the final plans/schedules are not done I could even go to Montreal/Quebec first and then Toronto (I would after all have to come back to Toronto anyway for my return flight...)

The problem in your case is that you do not have a Quebec address to give which will make the immigration officer suspicious that it is not your intent to settle in Quebec. As said, if you fail to convince the immigration officer that you intend to settle in Quebec, they can refuse your landing. This has actually happened to people. I am not joking about that. Therefore, in your case, because you can not give a Quebec address right away, it would be better not to give one at all when you land. Once you have landed, you can phone CIC and give them an address, either your uncles or an address you have arranged in Quebec.

So how about if I tell him something along the lines of "I'm going on to Montreal/Quebec, but I do not have a definite address there at the moment -besides the hotels-, I can provide a Relative's address in Toronto, where I know they will arrive safely or I can provide a Quebec address at a later time, whatever you think is more convenient" ?

And in case he says to provide a Quebec one later... how do you go setting up a forwarding address like you mentioned?

Yes, in order to sponsor, you must be residing in Canada when you apply and during the processing. You can take a short vacation to visit your family if you have to leave them behind but if immigration finds that you are living outside Canada again with your family, they will cancel your application without giving you a chance to return first. I personally would not risk leaving for more than 2-3 weeks max.

Hmm that is kind of an inconvenience, being that the idea was to go all together afterwards... I guess I'll have to think a bit more about this one...

Technically, you are supposed to be able to add a dependant as long as you haven't landed yet. The visa office might however see it differently :-/ If you want this option, you should contact them and ask. I also remember a case of a husband in your situation who landed himself as his wife had complications and could not go. He did not commit misrepresentation because the baby was not born when he landed and his visa office agreed to add the baby to the application and issue a new visa for his wife. Otherwise, he could have sponsored them both.

Well, the problem with this option is that technically the baby wouldn't be born until beginning of January, so I couldn't ask until then. If you also consider that my visa is valid until April 15th, I would say given the normal processing times these people have, that it's cutting it very short to only have 3 months for all this, wouldn't you say?

Hmm.. considering what you are saying here in the last part, being that we would now be going as a formality anyway, would you say doing something similar to what you mention would also be an option? This would be:

- I go now, do the landing, and assure my PR status, get the card etc. and come back to my home country. (I can argue I wen to "scout the area", look at neighourhoods, jobs, etc)

- My wife stays (it would have been just a vacation anyway), and we wait until the baby is born, moment in which we/she applies to have the baby added as she hasn't landed yet.

- If all goes well and they add the baby, then whenever we can (would they re-issue her visa with a new expiration date?) we all go together.

- If it doesn't go well and the refuse adding her, it wouldn't be any different thant if we had both gone now and would still have to sponsor her, so I (having PR status anyway) could just travel when it's convenient and stay and do the sponsorship. (and I guess my wife could also go and do the landing before her visa expires in that case if she can).


I am tempted to just write to our visa office now and ask, but I'm not sure if that would make them trigger anything regarding my current status?? Could they even providing as of now nothing has really changed yet and wouldn't until the birth?

 

[Leon]

Right, the idea was to stay a few days in Toronto visiting, and then move on to Montreal/Quebec City. I can buy a ticket (would train be better to not deal with the hassle and extra time of planes while at the same time good enough to convince the officer?), and I guess since the final plans/schedules are not done I could even go to Montreal/Quebec first and then Toronto (I would after all have to come back to Toronto anyway for my return flight...)

So how about if I tell him something along the lines of "I'm going on to Montreal/Quebec, but I do not have a definite address there at the moment -besides the hotels-, I can provide a Relative's address in Toronto, where I know they will arrive safely or I can provide a Quebec address at a later time, whatever you think is more convenient" ?

And in case he says to provide a Quebec one later... how do you go setting up a forwarding address like you mentioned?

You could say that you are not settling at this point. You are just here to land and you would like your PR card to be sent to your uncle in Toronto if possible. I have no idea how the IO would react to that though. As said, if you fail to convince the IO that you are going to settle in Quebec, they can refuse your landing. Even if they do accept your landing, they could refuse your uncles address. If they refuse his address, you can go to a UPS store when you arrive in Quebec, see http://theupsstore.ca/store-finder/ and ask if you can organize a Canadian address with them with mail forwarding to either your uncle in Toronto or to your home address. There are other similar services besides UPS as well. When you have an address, you contact CIC and tell them.

Well, the problem with this option is that technically the baby wouldn't be born until beginning of January, so I couldn't ask until then. If you also consider that my visa is valid until April 15th, I would say given the normal processing times these people have, that it's cutting it very short to only have 3 months for all this, wouldn't you say?

Your visas would have to be re-issued as well so they could extend them but it might mean you would need new medicals.

Hmm.. considering what you are saying here in the last part, being that we would now be going as a formality anyway, would you say doing something similar to what you mention would also be an option? This would be:

- I go now, do the landing, and assure my PR status, get the card etc. and come back to my home country. (I can argue I wen to "scout the area", look at neighourhoods, jobs, etc)

- My wife stays (it would have been just a vacation anyway), and we wait until the baby is born, moment in which we/she applies to have the baby added as she hasn't landed yet.

- If all goes well and they add the baby, then whenever we can (would they re-issue her visa with a new expiration date?) we all go together.

- If it doesn't go well and the refuse adding her, it wouldn't be any different thant if we had both gone now and would still have to sponsor her, so I (having PR status anyway) could just travel when it's convenient and stay and do the sponsorship. (and I guess my wife could also go and do the landing before her visa expires in that case if she can).


I am tempted to just write to our visa office now and ask, but I'm not sure if that would make them trigger anything regarding my current status?? Could they even providing as of now nothing has really changed yet and wouldn't until the birth?

Right, your plan sounds like it would work just fine as long as you land before the baby is born. A simple inquiry shouldn't change anything with your visa. You can write to them that you are wondering if it would be possible to wait and add the baby to your file because you are wondering if you want to land before the baby or if it is possible if you could wait. In the meantime, as long as you have your visa in your hand, it is still valid and you can still land on it.

 

[walterg74]

You could say that you are not settling at this point. You are just here to land and you would like your PR card to be sent to your uncle in Toronto if possible. I have no idea how the IO would react to that though. As said, if you fail to convince the IO that you are going to settle in Quebec, they can refuse your landing. Even if they do accept your landing, they could refuse your uncles address. If they refuse his address, you can go to a UPS store when you arrive in Quebec, see http://theupsstore.ca/store-finder/ and ask if you can organize a Canadian address with them with mail forwarding to either your uncle in Toronto or to your home address. There are other similar services besides UPS as well. When you have an address, you contact CIC and tell them.

Your visas would have to be re-issued as well so they could extend them but it might mean you would need new medicals.

Right, your plan sounds like it would work just fine as long as you land before the baby is born. A simple inquiry shouldn't change anything with your visa. You can write to them that you are wondering if it would be possible to wait and add the baby to your file because you are wondering if you want to land before the baby or if it is possible if you could wait. In the meantime, as long as you have your visa in your hand, it is still valid and you can still land on it.

Thanks again for all the great input..

I wrote them (they're pretty good, generally repond the same day or next) and they basically told me to give me precise info to tell them if we are actually expecting at the moment, and would the approximate date of the birth be...

So sent the info along and I guess I'll see what they say tomorrow....

 

[mastfadi]

Thanks again for all the great input..

I wrote them (they're pretty good, generally repond the same day or next) and they basically told me to give me precise info to tell them if we are actually expecting at the moment, and would the approximate date of the birth be...

So sent the info along and I guess I'll see what they say tomorrow....

Hi Walterg74,

I am in exactly the same situation as you are and I am glad i found this post that can guide me well. Can you please tell me what did they say when they responded you after you gave them the approximate date of birth ? Were they willing to cancel your visa for an indefinite period so that you can get back to them whenever the papers for the baby are ready ?? Please let me know.

 

[walterg74]

Hi Walterg74,

I am in exactly the same situation as you are and I am glad i found this post that can guide me well. Can you please tell me what did they say when they responded you after you gave them the approximate date of birth ? Were they willing to cancel your visa for an indefinite period so that you can get back to them whenever the papers for the baby are ready ?? Please let me know.

Hi, no, no way on earth would they cancel fro an "indefinite" amount of time... It basically came down to once your visa is issued the file is pretty much closed for them, and I would have had to re-open it, give everything back, apply/request visas for everybody once the baby was born and see if all that goes through.

I was not going to go through all that without any type of assurance we would get visas... The lady was nice on the phone but basically said "why don't you have him be born in Canada, that would simplify everything" and while it's true that's no what my wife wanted so nothing, we just went the 2 of us and when the time comes we'll see how we get the baby a visa to take her along.