Family Class Sponsorship for Conjugal Partners App changed to Married Status

[Scotch4451]

A little background first. I had Landed Immigrant status when my family immigrated to Canada in the 60's. Both my parents have died and are buried in Canada and I still have a sister there. I believe I still retain PR status because to my recollection, I have not relinquished it despite not living there for the last 35 years. Obviously, I cannot meet my residential obligation either. Over the last 2 years I have been in a serious relationship with a Canadian citizen. As a result, I have traveled back to visit 3-4 times per year. Because these are only temporary visits, I have not had any problems with customs and I have not been questioned about my prior status. However, knowing that I cannot meet my residency obligation to maintain my PR, we applied to get a new PR status (would have to relinquish the old, to allow this to proceed) under the Family Class with her as my Sponsor but we did so as conjugal partners. To this date, CIC has not begun review of the application but should be getting to it shortly. Now, my plans are to move up there in the next month or two to be with her and get married. As a US citizen, the CIC says I do not need a visitor visa and my understanding is that I can stay up to 6 months. During that time, we will amend the application to reflect our new marital status. My question is, now that I will be married, will this change in marital status allow me to stay longer and over that time, with the application progressing and perhaps a preliminary determination, will the CIC grant me some sort of PR status that will allow me to lawfully seek employment? Also, by amending the application for the change in marital status and mailing/home address, does this mean our application starts all over again at the bottom of the pile? Finally, as she is the Sponsor in Canada but the application was mailed from the States by me, it is considered a outland or inland application? I understand from other posts there are pros and cons to both and if I'm understanding correctly, you can still apply from outland even while both of us live in Canada.

I realize this is complicated but if anyone with some insight to untangling this web can help us by giving me/us some clear direction on how to proceed, I'd be extremely grateful. At this point, I don't know what I am going to say upon entry into the country, i.e., how long I'm staying, the purpose of my visit and the state of my existing or new PR status. Please help if you can. Thanks.

 

[Rob_TO]

My thoughts.

1. Your application must be valid as of the day you submitted it to CIC. Due to the fact you can freely travel to and from Canada and there are no barriers to becoming common-law or married, you do NOT qualify as conjugal and would be rejected under that class. So therefore you can't simply change your app to married since as of the date you applied the app would not be a valid one. You need to submit an entirely new app from scratch after getting married.

2. However, you are already a PR. So I don't see how you can apply for PR, if you are already a PR. What do the CBSA officers tell you at the airport? Perhaps you got PR so long ago, it actually was revoked at some point?? This also adds to my first point, you can't submit a PR app unless you officially give up your current PR status.

3. If you are still a PR, then all you would need to do is stay in Canada 2 years to fulfil the residency obligation, and just renew your PR card. If you can get some record of being a PR, then I don't see why you couldn't use that to get SIN and work.

All of this is dependent on what your actual PR status is right now though, so you really need to figure that out first.

 

[michellestella]

1. Your application must be valid as of the day you submitted it to CIC. Due to the fact you can freely travel to and from Canada and there are no barriers to becoming common-law or married, you do NOT qualify as conjugal and would be rejected under that class. So therefore you can't simply change your app to married since as of the date you applied the app would not be a valid one. You need to submit an entirely new app from scratch after getting married.

This is not entirely true. You will not be rejected out of hand and CIC will give you a chance to prove any barriers (if they exist) by asking for more information and/or an interview. Further, according to the posted operations manual, if any applicant changes their marital status during the course of the application (conjugal --> married is specifically cited) the case officer is instructed to make adjustments to the file and continue processing under the new class (so you would not be at the bottom of the pile but just continue on from where you were). I will look up the manual when I get home and post the reference.

 

[Rob_TO]

Further, according to the posted operations manual, if any applicant changes their marital status during the course of the application (conjugal --> married is specifically cited) the case officer is instructed to make adjustments to the file and continue processing under the new class (so you would not be at the bottom of the pile but just continue on from where you were). I will look up the manual when I get home and post the reference.

I'd be curious to see the rules to that, as I'm under the impression if you didn't qualify for conjugal up-front, you can't simply change the application partway through to married.

There could then be a situation where say I'm planning to get married in 8 months. I could just send a conjugal app now to get in the queue even if I don't qualify for conjugal, and then just change status to married in 8 months, and keep my place in line? That doesn't seem fair at all.

Here is the section: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf . There is lots of conflicting info.
5.51. Switching categories between spouses, common-law partners and conjugal partners
Applicants are required to indicate the category in which they are applying for immigration to Canada.
Conjugal partners, common-law partners and spouses are all specific categories with specific requirements.

There is no requirement for an officer of the Department to automatically re-assess an
application by considering such an application in terms of a different relationship between
the applicant and the sponsor within the family class. The onus is entirely upon the applicant
to indicate what their relationship is to the sponsor and to fulfill the requirements of the category
under which they apply. There is no option to make a general application within the family class
(within the conjugal categories, for example). A fundamental understanding of the family class is
that members of that class must establish themselves as one of certain prescribed members in
terms of their relationship with the sponsor. Different relationships to the sponsor correspond to
different categories within the class as described in the Regulations. Applicants must self-identify
within an application and they must meet the requirements of the category under which they
apply. Each of spouses, common-law partners and conjugal partners are different categories with
different requirements, and applicants choose to identify themselves, voluntarily, depending on
their relationship to the sponsor on the application forms.

However, applicants are also obliged to inform the Department if aspects of their life change prior
to the finalization of their case, including their marital/conjugal status. If their conjugal relationship
changes (for example, if applicants are in a conjugal-partner relationship with a sponsor and the
applicant and sponsor marry), then officers should make adjustments to the application (i.e.,
coding) and should proceed with processing in terms of the new conjugal relationship. (See 13.1
for guidance on procedures regarding technically illegal marriages). Until further notice, applicants
whose marital status changes following a refusal decision—for example, following the refusal of
their conjugal-partner application the sponsor marries the applicant—should be counselled to
reapply under the appropriate category— in the above example, FC1.

 

[Scotch4451]

Thanks to both of you for your quick response. I was under the impression that you could amend your application mid-stream, so to speak, after all, situations change as we all know. Plus, the conjugal category was the only one that applied to our circumstances because at the time the app was filed, we had not been dating for more than two years and we have not lived together during that time. But now it is past 2 years and we want to be married and live together in Canada so that's our next step.

As for the PR, if I have not relinquished it in the past 35 years (I don't remember ever doing so), I have not lived in Canada for that time either. But on the strength of still possibly retaining it, I understand my SIN to be valid but dormant (not used in over 5 years) so then suddenly earning income after all this time may trigger bells and whistles somewhere of my past residence Since I had no way to prove my whereabouts in Canada for the past 35 years I did not want to take a chance and thus resigned myself to relinquishing then going forward with new app. And I feared that if I pushed the fact that I still had it, staying for two years without a visit or two back to the states for family obligations posed a risk of running afoul of the CBSA and the chance that I not be allowed to re-enter Canada. To go that way and stick out the 2 years, part of me thinks I need to withdraw that application too which if it can't be amended for change in marital status and we could get rejected on the conjugal application as Rob TO states, we might have to start over anyway which would be a major burden to redo all forms. But I thought by finally getting married, I might be able to at least lawfully stay those two years and not just be a visitor till everything worked out. I'm curious to see what else Michelle finds in the manual about amending. Thanks again.

 

[Ponga]

You [likely] lost your PR status a very long time ago (~ 30 + years ago), because you did not maintain the PR residency requirements.

You don't `relinquish' it, like citizenship.

 

[Alurra71]

Thanks to both of you for your quick response. I was under the impression that you could amend your application mid-stream, so to speak, after all, situations change as we all know. Plus, the conjugal category was the only one that applied to our circumstances because at the time the app was filed, we had not been dating for more than two years and we have not lived together during that time. But now it is past 2 years and we want to be married and live together in Canada so that's our next step.

As for the PR, if I have not relinquished it in the past 35 years (I don't remember ever doing so), I have not lived in Canada for that time either. But on the strength of still possibly retaining it, I understand my SIN to be valid but dormant (not used in over 5 years) so then suddenly earning income after all this time may trigger bells and whistles somewhere of my past residence Since I had no way to prove my whereabouts in Canada for the past 35 years I did not want to take a chance and thus resigned myself to relinquishing then going forward with new app. And I feared that if I pushed the fact that I still had it, staying for two years without a visit or two back to the states for family obligations posed a risk of running afoul of the CBSA and the chance that I not be allowed to re-enter Canada. To go that way and stick out the 2 years, part of me thinks I need to withdraw that application too which if it can't be amended for change in marital status and we could get rejected on the conjugal application as Rob TO states, we might have to start over anyway which would be a major burden to redo all forms. But I thought by finally getting married, I might be able to at least lawfully stay those two years and not just be a visitor till everything worked out. I'm curious to see what else Michelle finds in the manual about amending. Thanks again.

You of course realise if you are able to enter Canada as a visitor you can just remain in Canada for 730 days and then be back in ro status and then apply to just renew the status you already have. Why relinquish the current to try and get a new if not necessary?

 

[Rob_TO]

Thanks to both of you for your quick response. I was under the impression that you could amend your application mid-stream, so to speak, after all, situations change as we all know. Plus, the conjugal category was the only one that applied to our circumstances because at the time the app was filed, we had not been dating for more than two years and we have not lived together during that time.

Back then there was no legal or immigration barrier to you getting married or becoming common-law, so based on that you would not have qualified as conjugal and most likely your conjugal app would have been eventually rejected if you let it continue.

As you can see from the link above to the OP manual, it seems like the visa officer does have discretion to simply change your status to married and continue on with the app. But they also seem to have the power to simply tell you to submit a new app instead. I've not seen any actual cases of people changing from conjugal to either common-law or married.
As i mentioned though, it seems kind of unfair to couples who waited until they were married to submit their app, when people who didn't qualify for conjugal are able to submit conjugal apps then change them to married a year later and not have to start over again.

As for the PR, if I have not relinquished it in the past 35 years (I don't remember ever doing so), I have not lived in Canada for that time either. But on the strength of still possibly retaining it, I understand my SIN to be valid but dormant (not used in over 5 years) so then suddenly earning income after all this time may trigger bells and whistles somewhere of my past residence Since I had no way to prove my whereabouts in Canada for the past 35 years I did not want to take a chance and thus resigned myself to relinquishing then going forward with new app. And I feared that if I pushed the fact that I still had it, staying for two years without a visit or two back to the states for family obligations posed a risk of running afoul of the CBSA and the chance that I not be allowed to re-enter Canada. To go that way and stick out the 2 years, part of me thinks I need to withdraw that application too which if it can't be amended for change in marital status and we could get rejected on the conjugal application as Rob TO states, we might have to start over anyway which would be a major burden to redo all forms. But I thought by finally getting married, I might be able to at least lawfully stay those two years and not just be a visitor till everything worked out. I'm curious to see what else Michelle finds in the manual about amending. Thanks again.

There is no grey area with PR. Either you are PR, or you are not a PR. That is it.

If you are a PR and can get proof of it from CIC or CBSA, then all you need to do is be in Canada for 2 years and apply to renew your PR card. If you are a PR, you can legally work with your SIN number. The only problem is if you are trying to enter Canada and they see you are a PR who has not met residency obligations, CBSA can report you to CIC and then possibly have your PR revoked.

The fact CBSA has never brought up your PR status and let you enter as a visitor, and your app has continued this long without CIC bringing up your PR status... tells me that perhaps it was already revoked some time ago. If you were still a PR CIC would claim your current PR application invalid.

You really need to call someone at CIC, and confirm your actual status in their system.

 

[taffy7]

Rb , there was a couple on hereabout two months ago who sent in their application for conjugal , then realized it would be denied , so she sent in an amendment for common law and she was approved as sponsor . They gave here 45 days to response and she was approved 2 weeks later. In the OP case i dont think waiting to get married then applying it would be the same, they would have to prove another form such as married for them to continue on with the application. As for the Pr stuff i have no idea how that works.

 

[Rob_TO]

Rb , there was a couple on hereabout two months ago who sent in their application for conjugal , then realized it would be denied , so she sent in an amendment for common law and she was approved as sponsor . They gave here 45 days to response and she was approved 2 weeks later. In the OP case i dont think waiting to get married then applying it would be the same, they would have to prove another form such as married for them to continue on with the application. As for the Pr stuff i have no idea how that works.

That is a bit different case, since they were actually common-law at the time the application was submitted.

In this case, they were neither common-law nor married when the app was submitted. Also more of the scrutiny of this happens during the 2nd stage. Even in a conjugal app where the couple doesn't qualify for conjugal, sponsor will still be approved.

If they get married I would still try to update VO and hope for the best that they will simply change status and continue on... but would expect the worst that they may ask to submit a brand new app.

 

[tink23]

If any couple were allowed to apply as conjugal before being married or common law, then any couple would do this. Conjugal is only for people with serious barriers to common law or marriage. The OP is from the US which is the least likely country to having any of these barriers to Canada. The application should be rejected and a new application made once they're either married or qualify as common law. If what the OP is asking was actually a viable option, then most couples would do is so they can get a jump start on receiving PR when in all actuality, they're simply just dating, not part of the family Class.

 

[Ponga]

You of course realise if you are able to enter Canada as a visitor you can just remain in Canada for 730 days and then be back in ro status and then apply to just renew the status you already have. Why relinquish the current to try and get a new if not necessary?

Are you serious?!?! A person that hasn't fulfilled their RO for over 30 years can simply `get into Canada' as a visitor (assuming that the CBSA officer doesn't see their EXPIRED PR in their system) and after 2 years, they can renew their PR status?!?!

Does that seem fair?

 

[taffy7]

That is a bit different case, since they were actually common-law at the time the application was submitted.

In this case, they were neither common-law nor married when the app was submitted. Also more of the scrutiny of this happens during the 2nd stage. Even in a conjugal app where the couple doesn't qualify for conjugal, sponsor will still be approved.

If they get married I would still try to update VO and hope for the best that they will simply change status and continue on... but would expect the worst that they may ask to submit a brand new app.

Yeah your right there Rob ... they other couple had filled their common law status.

 

[Alurra71]

Are you serious?!?! A person that hasn't fulfilled their RO for over 30 years can simply `get into Canada' as a visitor (assuming that the CBSA officer doesn't see their EXPIRED PR in their system) and after 2 years, they can renew their PR status?!?!

Does that seem fair?

I didn't say it was fair, Ponga, only that it is currently the rules. Since CIC can NOT look back more than 5 years to a time, as long as you can 'bypass' CBSA without being reported for failure to meet RO then you can stay in Canada for your 730 days and apply to renew your PR card. They can't, by law, look back any further than 5 years. This is the way it is currently set up and that is why you have so many getting their PR visas, headed back to whence they came and then trying their luck at land borders (they are notoriously easy to bypass being reported for failure to meet RO)and then getting their cards renewed after they are eligible and doing it all over again.

As long as you have a valid SIN and can work, the ONLY thing I can see causing a major setback would be maybe applying for healthcare or a drivers license, since, due to function creep, a lot of places are requiring a valid PR card to verify status.

Anyway, yes, to the OP since you already have PR, this option is also available to you.

 

[Ponga]

Wow! That's f'n unbelievable!!!

I guess it's going to be tempting to the OP, but if for some reason things go awry after he's back in Canada, such as CBSA being suddenly made privy to this situation, wouldn't he then be in Canada illegally (if he's stayed beyond 180 days) and could possibly face a Removal Order, and an Exclusion Order?

You certainly can't fault the OP for at least trying this...I guess.