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Extending PR if working currently overseas

sammon

Newbie
Mar 27, 2017
3
0
Hi all,
we got our PR cards (and landing) in April 2014. cards are valid till April 2019. In April 2018 we plan to move to France for 2 years job contract. We can't apply for PR cards in April 2018 because it will be less then 9 months. And we can't apply from France. We can come back in September and apply or ask someone to mail an application, but question is-will CIC be concerned? It will be 4 years of living in Canada but in application itself we will have to write down that now we don't live in Canada.

Is there any way to renew cards earlier? Or it's only for lost/damaged cards?...

Thanks!
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
sammon said:
Hi all,
we got our PR cards (and landing) in April 2014. cards are valid till April 2019. In April 2018 we plan to move to France for 2 years job contract. We can't apply for PR cards in April 2018 because it will be less then 9 months. And we can't apply from France. We can come back in September and apply or ask someone to mail an application, but question is-will CIC be concerned? It will be 4 years of living in Canada but in application itself we will have to write down that now we don't live in Canada.

Is there any way to renew cards earlier? Or it's only for lost/damaged cards?...

Thanks!
Reminder: a PR is still a PR even if the PR card is expired. A PR does not need a PR card to keep PR status. (It is important, however, to stay in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation.)

Since you will be abroad when the time for obtaining a new PR card arrives, you will not be eligible to apply for a new PR card. You will need to wait until you return to Canada before you apply for a new PR card.

If you return to Canada temporarily and attempt to apply for a PR card, be sure to be upfront and truthful in all the information, including as to your actual residential addresses (which is not like providing a residential address for a bank or such; for IRCC it is important to report the address where one is actually living), including any change in address while the application is pending. This process may go OK or it may run into non-routine processing, lengthy delays, and other problems.

Mostly, usually, better to wait until returning to actually reside in Canada before applying for new PR cards. In the meantime it is imperative, of course, to remain in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, and it is best to keep good records which will prove presence in Canada.

So long as you clearly stay in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, waiting until you move back to Canada should pose no problem other than needing to apply for and obtain a PR Travel Document when you are flying to Canada after your PR cards have expired. Note, if your passport allows you to travel via the U.S., it is also possible to return to Canada after your PR cards expire by flying to the U.S. and traveling by car to Canada.

Do not be tempted to lose your PR cards in order to apply for cards sooner. No matter how innocent, those who have lost passports or PR cards or such tend to face higher risks just because of that fact alone.

Do not be tempted to use family or friend's address as your residential address. Perhaps many may still get away with this, but given changes to the penalties now imposed for misrepresentation, doing this would be foolish leaning toward stupid.

Be aware that stuff happens and many times things do not go according to plan . . . once you are abroad for two years or so, contingencies in life can too easily cause someone to be abroad longer, perhaps another year leading to a failure to stay in compliance with the PR RO.

Periodic trips to Canada, and otherwise maintaining ties in Canada, always helps when it comes to obtaining a PR TD or processing a new PR card application. Good records are crucial for any PR who spends an extended period of time abroad.

Anticipate the risk of non-routine processing for the PR card application after returning to Canada, given the extended period of residence abroad. Should be no problem overall, but the timeline can be significantly longer, so it may take some time to get new cards, and a valid PR card might be necessary for things like obtaining health care coverage.

Unless and until a PR becomes a citizen, there is no getting around some risks of inconvenience which can result from spending extended periods of time abroad.
 

sammon

Newbie
Mar 27, 2017
3
0
Thanks!!
I need a PR card as still plan to travel several times a year within these 2 years. I mean I can get travel document each time but it may take really a long time in France..
 

Tubsmagee

Hero Member
Jul 2, 2016
438
131
sammon said:
Thanks!!
I need a PR card as still plan to travel several times a year within these 2 years. I mean I can get travel document each time but it may take really a long time in France..
You could request a multi-use travel document, which would make it easier if approved

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5529ETOC.asp said:
What if I am living outside Canada on a long-term basis?

Usually, PRTD counterfoils are issued for a single entry to Canada. However, you can request a long-term multiple entry PRTD if you:

meet the residency obligation; and
are living outside Canada on a long-term basis (for example, if you are a permanent resident accompanying your Canadian citizen spouse).
Include a cover letter that explains your circumstances and requests a multiple entry PRTD.

Multiple entry PRTD’s cannot extend beyond the expiry date of your passport.[-quote]
 

sammon

Newbie
Mar 27, 2017
3
0
Thanks!
I didn't know about multi use travel document
I'm still confused though why I can't apply to pr card when I'm temporarily here - it's not against the law and all conditions will be met... or there will be a problem?
 

Tubsmagee

Hero Member
Jul 2, 2016
438
131
sammon said:
I'm still confused though why I can't apply to pr card when I'm temporarily here - it's not against the law and all conditions will be met... or there will be a problem?
You have to be in Canada to submit the application. There are many comments from people on this board about visiting/driving into Canada and submitting an application with the address of family/friends, but I would agree that is questionable. In your situation, you should have met the RO, so not having a current PR card wouldn't be a bit deal (IMO).

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/pr-card/apply-how.asp said:
To be eligible for a PR card, you need to:

be a permanent resident, and
submit your application in Canada.

If you are outside Canada, apply for a permanent resident travel document to return to Canada. After you arrive, apply for a PR card.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
sammon said:
Thanks!
I didn't know about multi use travel document
I'm still confused though why I can't apply to pr card when I'm temporarily here - it's not against the law and all conditions will be met... or there will be a problem?
In addition to observations by Tubsmagee:

A PR can indeed apply for a new PR card while temporarily in Canada. And, making the application from within Canada meets the eligibility requirements for obtaining a new card.

So long as the PR truthfully and completely provides the information requested in the application, as I noted before this process could go OK.

But as you in part acknowledged in your initial query, the information you provide, given your circumstances, is more or less likely to raise concerns or questions. In particular, the recent extended absence abroad, particularly in conjunction with employment abroad, is more or less likely to trigger elevated scrutiny and non-routine processing. There is a substantial risk the processing timeline will be much, much longer.

In the meantime, if you do not remain in Canada you are required to promptly notify IRCC of your change in address. This is another one of those areas where, perhaps, many are in effect getting away with not doing this . . . but a failure to provide IRCC with one's actual residential address can constitute misrepresentation by omission, and is not an approach a legitimate PR wants to take. (While this may not trigger Inadmissibility proceedings, to terminate PR status based on misrepresentation, although it could, the risk is substantial it will be identified, resulting in compromising the PR's credibility, which generally makes most future transactions with IRCC more difficult.)


Regarding PR TD:

Last year IRCC did indeed begin issuing multiple-use PR TDs valid for a period of up to five years. Whether a particular PR in your situation would be issued such a multiple-use PR TD is an unknown. IRCC has not been forthcoming with information about which PRs will be issued multiple-use PR TDs. They mostly appear to be intended for PRs who are living abroad with a Canadian citizen spouse, but not every PR in this situation has been issued the multiple-use PR TD. They may also be intended for PRs employed abroad by certain employers, such as by the Canadian government, but probably not for PRs working abroad for any Canadian employer even if that time employed abroad qualifies for the credit toward compliance with the PR RO.

Legitimate, qualified PRs, particularly those for whom the circumstances of being abroad are more or less clearly temporary, who have good records to document their actual presence in Canada, should have minimal problems obtaining a PR TD while in a country like France. Reports suggest the process routinely takes days, a week to two weeks or so.

There are other countries where it is more difficult to obtain a PR TD. And, of course, if there are concerns about the PR's compliance with the PR RO that can result in longer processing times. In the situation you describe, particularly given regularly returning to Canada along the way, and regarding which you can include an explanation (in the PR TD application) for the extended absence which further includes a description of your employment highlighting its temporary nature, and so long as you are not cutting-it-close relative to complying with the PR RO, there should be no problems promptly obtaining a PR TD. And perhaps such explanation would help you obtain a multiple-use PR TD.

Even if not issued a multiple-use PR TD, once you have gone through the process that should facilitate smooth sailing for subsequent PR TD applications . . . again, so long as you are not cutting-it-close relative to complying with the PR RO.


Overriding note:

It is difficult to reliably forecast how such things will go for any individual PR. It varies, and can vary greatly, depending in large part on many different variables.

While there are bureaucratic hurdles (which again are essentially unavoidable unless and until one becomes a citizen) imposing some inconvenience for PRs who go abroad for extended periods of time, related to enforcing the rules, otherwise IRCC does not ordinarily impose problems for legitimate, qualified PRs. But how things go can depend on factors other than the technicalities. For example, there is no technical requirement that a PR deserves to keep PR status, but it would be foolish for anyone to overlook the possible impact resulting from negative impressions or perceptions about this. This in particular makes it difficult to forecast how things will go for a specific PR since there are so many things which can influence the impression the PR makes.

At the risk of sounding inconsistent, it is nonetheless true that IRCC tends to be a lot more flexible and accommodating than many apprehend, but it can also be surprisingly strict and difficult for many who believe they do not deserve such handling. When things are difficult, there is usually a reason, and indeed often multiple reasons. With some exceptions, those who are clearly playing by the rules tend to avoid problems, while those who are cutting-it-close or appear to be taking advantage of the Canadian immigration system are more likely to encounter issues.

Which is to say, if you are entirely on the up-and-up in your dealings with CBSA and IRCC, and staying well within the lines, all this should go relatively smoothly, and even the process for obtaining a PR TD as needed should not be problematic. And, indeed, as noted, so long as you keep IRCC properly informed, an application for a new PR card while temporarily in Canada may go OK -- but do not rely on this happening.