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Express entry after graduation.

loo1201

Star Member
Mar 13, 2016
174
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ON
Category........
CEC
Visa Office......
Etobicoke
App. Filed.......
01-05-2020
AOR Received.
12-05-2020
VISA ISSUED...
10-06-2021
Ok so here is my issue.

Im in Canada right now on a student visa. I just completed my first year and i have more to go.

The thing is, i overstayed my ESTA in the US in 2015 for a year and a half then i decided to leave the country. In my visa application, i mentioned all the places i lived for more than 6 months for the past 5 years and put my US history as well. I did not hide anything, i also provided a clean FBI record and got my student visa a few weeks after i submitted my application.

Now my goal is to apply for either a PGWP or try express entry after my graduation in 2018.

Will i have to provide a history of the places ive lived for the past 5 years again? And will i have to submit another FBI application as well?

Can my overstay affect my application?

Thank you
 

DelPiero07

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Oct 2, 2016
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You will have to provide where you've lived for the past 10 years or since the age of 18 (whichever is latest).

You will also have to state your overstay in the statutory questions once you receive your ITA.

You will have to provide another police certificate if the one that you have is not valid anymore.
 

loo1201

Star Member
Mar 13, 2016
174
15
ON
Category........
CEC
Visa Office......
Etobicoke
App. Filed.......
01-05-2020
AOR Received.
12-05-2020
VISA ISSUED...
10-06-2021
DelPiero07 said:
You will have to provide where you've lived for the past 10 years or since the age of 18 (whichever is latest).

You will also have to state your overstay in the statutory questions once you receive your ITA.

You will have to provide another police certificate if the one that you have is not valid anymore.
Whats statutory questions? Ive never heard of that. And also does my overstay really matters in a permanent residency like express entry?

EDIT: Statutory questions only ask about visa refusal or deportation which does not apply to me. I was never deported or refused entry/visa.
 

loo1201

Star Member
Mar 13, 2016
174
15
ON
Category........
CEC
Visa Office......
Etobicoke
App. Filed.......
01-05-2020
AOR Received.
12-05-2020
VISA ISSUED...
10-06-2021
DelPiero07 said:
So you overstayed for a year and a half and was never ordered to leave?
No, i simply left by myself. I was never "caught" i was just tired of leaving like that.
 

plutonia

Full Member
Nov 28, 2016
28
5
loo1201 said:
Whats statutory questions? Ive never heard of that. And also does my overstay really matters in a permanent residency like express entry?

EDIT: Statutory questions only ask about visa refusal or deportation which does not apply to me. I was never deported or refused entry/visa.
I believe the US immigration has no way of knowing when you left US if you did so by land. So it might not show up in your background check during Express Entry. But you have to also say in detail what you did in the past ten years. So in that sense they will see your US visa and stamps in your passport and know you overstayed.

EDIT: I would say it is a big deal normally, but it is interesting to me that you already said everything and got a student visa. So maybe it isn't a big deal?
 

picklee

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Feb 19, 2017
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loo1201 said:
Whats statutory questions? Ive never heard of that. And also does my overstay really matters in a permanent residency like express entry?

EDIT: Statutory questions only ask about visa refusal or deportation which does not apply to me. I was never deported or refused entry/visa.
If you overstayed your visa in the U.S., then the visa is automatically revoked. In this case, one could argue that you were denied a visa. I am always surprised by how many people on this forum try to bend their reasoning on an issue as serious as immigration. I do not think it's generally a problem for your application, but if you don't properly disclose it then you are misrepresenting your application, which is grounds for rejection.

Just be honest and upfront. Answer yes to statutory question #2, and provide details in LOE as well as personal history.
 

loo1201

Star Member
Mar 13, 2016
174
15
ON
Category........
CEC
Visa Office......
Etobicoke
App. Filed.......
01-05-2020
AOR Received.
12-05-2020
VISA ISSUED...
10-06-2021
picklee said:
If you overstayed your visa in the U.S., then the visa is automatically revoked. In this case, one could argue that you were denied a visa. I am always surprised by how many people on this forum try to bend their reasoning on an issue as serious as immigration. I do not think it's generally a problem for your application, but if you don't properly disclose it then you are misrepresenting your application, which is grounds for rejection.

Just be honest and upfront. Answer yes to statutory question #2, and provide details in LOE as well as personal history.
I made my visa application with my lawyer and he told me to answer no to these questions, cause legally i did not get a visa denial or was deported. Obviously i want to be as honest as possible and if they ask about my history in the US i will fully disclose my overstay.

I want to apply for PGWP after my graduation and then apply for Express entry. Ive heard immigration doesnt really care about overstays for permanent residency applications....
 

loo1201

Star Member
Mar 13, 2016
174
15
ON
Category........
CEC
Visa Office......
Etobicoke
App. Filed.......
01-05-2020
AOR Received.
12-05-2020
VISA ISSUED...
10-06-2021
Bump.

I want to apply first for PGWP. Is that considered a temporary stay permit? Cause my goal is to fully immigrate to Canada.
 

Bloodrose

Hero Member
Jan 5, 2010
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DelPiero07 said:
So you overstayed for a year and a half and was never ordered to leave?
I think you're greatly over-estimating the capabilities of ICE there. They simply don't have the resources to hunt down and deport every single overstayer, especially if the individual is from a low risk country, isn't involved in criminal activity and isn't attempting to work/claim welfare/vote by deception. That's why the number of nationalities that are eligible for I-94W remains low.
 

Bloodrose

Hero Member
Jan 5, 2010
258
34
loo1201 said:
Bump.

I want to apply first for PGWP. Is that considered a temporary stay permit? Cause my goal is to fully immigrate to Canada.
Yes, PGWP is a temporary permit and I would be careful because what you are trying to do right now is essentially immigrate by deception and your immigration history is far from flawless as it is. The onus will be on you to prove to the CIC that you have no dual intent. That's going to be tricky in this case because you clearly do have dual intent.
 

loo1201

Star Member
Mar 13, 2016
174
15
ON
Category........
CEC
Visa Office......
Etobicoke
App. Filed.......
01-05-2020
AOR Received.
12-05-2020
VISA ISSUED...
10-06-2021
Bloodrose said:
Yes, PGWP is a temporary permit and I would be careful because what you are trying to do right now is essentially immigrate by deception and your immigration history is far from flawless as it is. The onus will be on you to prove to the CIC that you have no dual intent. That's going to be tricky in this case because you clearly do have dual intent.
This seems very complicated. What are my options then? Is it a crime to want to immigrate to Canada after i graduate?

Also the CIC website states this : The Post-Graduation Work Permit Program (PGWPP) allows students who have graduated from a participating Canadian post-secondary institution to gain valuable Canadian work experience. Skilled Canadian work experience gained through the PGWPP helps graduates qualify for permanent residence in Canada through the Canadian experience class.

How can this be dual intent if even the CIC website says that PGWP will help you with immigrating to the country?
 

Bloodrose

Hero Member
Jan 5, 2010
258
34
loo1201 said:
This seems very complicated. What are my options then? Is it a crime to want to immigrate to Canada after i graduate?

Also the CIC website states this : The Post-Graduation Work Permit Program (PGWPP) allows students who have graduated from a participating Canadian post-secondary institution to gain valuable Canadian work experience. Skilled Canadian work experience gained through the PGWPP helps graduates qualify for permanent residence in Canada through the Canadian experience class.

How can this be dual intent if even the CIC website says that PGWP will help you with immigrating to the country?
You're right, it is complicated. Dual intent is an awkward process. It isn't technically a crime (nobody can prosecute you for wanting something) however when you're issued a temporary residence or work permit, the Canadian government expects assurances that you will not remain in Canada illegally afterwards. Likewise, the official stance is that you shouldn't be using international study routes to permanently immigrate (although millions of people worldwide have done this over the years through a variety of methods).

Tbh, I wouldn't overthink this if I were you. You may not even want to stay in Canada forever once you arrive and the laws on PGWP's can change abruptly and without notice, making routes from PGWP to PR pretty much impossible. Studying in Canada as a foreign student is expensive and is something that should only be done if you have a lot of surplus funds, actually are interested in that field of study and are prepared for the possibility that it might not lead to automatic PR and eventual citizenship.

I think Europeans usually have an easier time than most other nationalities at proving there is no dual intent involved however in your case that US overstay is going to be a big problem and I wouldn't recommend trying to cover it up. Part of the PR application process requires you to list all of the countries you have visited in the last decade and for how long. AFAIK an overstay in America doesn't automatically make you ineligible for permanent immigration to Canada but lying on a TWP or study permit application will.
 

picklee

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Feb 19, 2017
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Bloodrose said:
You're right, it is complicated. Dual intent is an awkward process. It isn't technically a crime (nobody can prosecute you for wanting something) however when you're issued a temporary residence or work permit, the Canadian government expects assurances that you will not remain in Canada illegally afterwards. Likewise, the official stance is that you shouldn't be using international study routes to permanently immigrate (although millions of people worldwide have done this over the years through a variety of methods).

Tbh, I wouldn't overthink this if I were you. You may not even want to stay in Canada forever once you arrive and the laws on PGWP's can change abruptly and without notice, making routes from PGWP to PR pretty much impossible. Studying in Canada as a foreign student is expensive and is something that should only be done if you have a lot of surplus funds, actually are interested in that field of study and are prepared for the possibility that it might not lead to automatic PR and eventual citizenship.

I think Europeans usually have an easier time than most other nationalities at proving there is no dual intent involved however in your case that US overstay is going to be a big problem and I wouldn't recommend trying to cover it up. Part of the PR application process requires you to list all of the countries you have visited in the last decade and for how long. AFAIK an overstay in America doesn't automatically make you ineligible for permanent immigration to Canada but lying on a TWP or study permit application will.
I am really surprised by this post. So much of what you have said runs counter to what the federal government itself has said is the intent of the economic immigration programs regarding students.

The government has repeatedly said that they want to attract international talent at universities and then retain them as PRs to fill critically needed jobs in Canada. That's why they revised the CRS in November 2016 in order to give international students an edge in EE.

From the latest report:
These changes have helped to attract top talent in the world, including former international students, experienced professionals and talented workers who will strengthen Canada’s competitiveness in the global marketplace.
With these changes, more former international students are able to transition to permanent residence through Express Entry. Former international students are a key source of candidates in Express Entry because of their age, education, skills and experience. In addition to the time already spent in Canada, integrating into Canadian society permanently will be easier because they will have established social networks and they will have familiarized themselves with life in Canada.
Your notion of "dual intent" is misapplied here. If you come to Canada to study, earn a degree, then obtain a PGWP, and eventually apply for PR, then you have followed the immigration laws. If, however, you come to Canada to study, but really you were trying to get into Canada for another reason, like spousal sponsorship, be with family, circumvent a tax liability, etc, then you misrepresented your intent to study.

There can be little doubt that the intent of a PR applicant is to remain in Canada, permanently. Any previous infractions on immigration intent for temporary stays are really irrelevant, except for evaluating character. This is why I recommended the OP be honest and as detailed as possible because VO has a lot of discretionary latitude.

Given the above statements from the government, there is no reason to expect that the laws for PGWP or PR will change drastically or immediately, beyond what is already proposed in bill C-6, which actually lowers the standards for becoming a naturalized citizen.
 

loo1201

Star Member
Mar 13, 2016
174
15
ON
Category........
CEC
Visa Office......
Etobicoke
App. Filed.......
01-05-2020
AOR Received.
12-05-2020
VISA ISSUED...
10-06-2021
Bloodrose said:
You're right, it is complicated. Dual intent is an awkward process. It isn't technically a crime (nobody can prosecute you for wanting something) however when you're issued a temporary residence or work permit, the Canadian government expects assurances that you will not remain in Canada illegally afterwards. Likewise, the official stance is that you shouldn't be using international study routes to permanently immigrate (although millions of people worldwide have done this over the years through a variety of methods).

Tbh, I wouldn't overthink this if I were you. You may not even want to stay in Canada forever once you arrive and the laws on PGWP's can change abruptly and without notice, making routes from PGWP to PR pretty much impossible. Studying in Canada as a foreign student is expensive and is something that should only be done if you have a lot of surplus funds, actually are interested in that field of study and are prepared for the possibility that it might not lead to automatic PR and eventual citizenship.

I think Europeans usually have an easier time than most other nationalities at proving there is no dual intent involved however in your case that US overstay is going to be a big problem and I wouldn't recommend trying to cover it up. Part of the PR application process requires you to list all of the countries you have visited in the last decade and for how long. AFAIK an overstay in America doesn't automatically make you ineligible for permanent immigration to Canada but lying on a TWP or study permit application will.
I am already in Canada with a student visa. I listed all the places i lived in the past 10 years, including my entire stay in the US. I answered all the statutory questions truthfully and got my student visa a couple weeks after submitting my demand.