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Expired PR and not meeting RO but in Canada

prince_of_darkness

Hero Member
May 15, 2013
434
29
Visa Office......
London
NOC Code......
2147
Hi All,

After a long time back here on Canada Visa Forum,

My situation is ::
PR : 2014 NOV Landed,
PR Card Expiry : 19th Dec 2019.
Stayed for couple of days in 2016 and 2014 ( while landing)
Finally Came back to Canada in Dec 2018 (sponsored my kid and fo PR for kid in jan 2019...approved in June 2019 ) . I did land with my kid and was granted TRV in Canada as my kid is British Citizen.
I have completed 365 days now. 1 more year to complete 730 days .

But was wondering if I can apply in DEC 2020. ( 730 days complete). I am now working from March 2019 and my wife is also working, 1 kid goes to school other one to day care. Bought a property in Nov 2019.

Will this help me when I apply for renewal in DEC 2020. and what If my employer throws me and my wife out for not having PR as it is now expired.

I am aware that I havent met the RO. Bu i am trying to do it now. what are my chances of renewing my PR post dec 2020.

Thanks
 
Last edited:

canuck_in_uk

VIP Member
May 4, 2012
31,553
7,205
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
06/12
Hi All,

After a long time back here on Canada Visa Forum,

My situation is ::
PR : 2014 NOV Landed,
PR Card Expiry : 19th Dec 2019.
Stayed for couple of days in 2016 and 2014 ( while landing)
Finally Came back to Canada in Dec 2018 (sponsored my kid and fo PR for kid in june 2019) . I did land with my kid and was granted TRV in Canada as my kid is British Citizen.
I have completed 365 days now. 1 more year to complete 730 days .

But was wondering if I can apply in DEC 2020. ( 730 days complete). I am now working from March 2019 and my wife is also working, 1 kid goes to school other one to day care. Bought a property in Nov 2019.

Will this help me when I apply for renewal in DEC 2020. and what If my employer throws me and my wife out for not having PR as it is now expired.

I am aware that I havent met the RO. Bu i am trying to do it now. what are my chances of renewing my PR post dec 2020.

Thanks
If you sponsored your child for PR in June 2019 when you didn't meet the RO, expect a refusal and for your PR status to be investigated and likely revoked.
 

prince_of_darkness

Hero Member
May 15, 2013
434
29
Visa Office......
London
NOC Code......
2147
Hi Canuck_in_uk ,

I as I told I came in Dec 2018 with my family, my kid didnt had PR SO was granted TRV at airport in Canada for 1 year for my kid. I applied for PR for my kid in Jan 2019. Got his inland landing in June 2019 and Pr Card 3-4 days later. He now has a PR for 5 years but for me , my wife and my other kid the PR has expired in dec 2019.
 

canuck_in_uk

VIP Member
May 4, 2012
31,553
7,205
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
06/12
Hi Canuck_in_uk ,

I as I told I came in Dec 2018 with my family, my kid didnt had PR SO was granted TRV at airport in Canada for 1 year for my kid. I applied for PR for my kid in Jan 2019. Got his inland landing in June 2019 and Pr Card 3-4 days later. He now has a PR for 5 years but for me , my wife and my other kid the PR has expired in dec 2019.
As you didn't meet the PR, the sponsorship app shouldn't have been approved.

You don't need valid cards to be in Canada.
 

prince_of_darkness

Hero Member
May 15, 2013
434
29
Visa Office......
London
NOC Code......
2147
My question is still there, if anyone can help,

As per wHat , I read, no one should be outside Canada for more than 1095 days from the day they have done landing. I have stayed for more than 1095 days outside and my PR has expired now. When I apply next year dec if they let me stay without valid PR card still the question arises about 1095 days?
What are my chances please do let me know
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,436
3,183
Hi Canuck_in_uk ,

I as I told I came in Dec 2018 with my family, my kid didnt had PR SO was granted TRV at airport in Canada for 1 year for my kid. I applied for PR for my kid in Jan 2019. Got his inland landing in June 2019 and Pr Card 3-4 days later. He now has a PR for 5 years but for me , my wife and my other kid the PR has expired in dec 2019.
PR status does NOT expire.

You currently have valid PR status even though you do not have a valid PR card.

A PR does NOT need to have a valid PR card EXCEPT for the purpose of boarding transportation headed to Canada. So as long as a PR does not travel outside Canada, the fact the PR does not have a valid PR card is NOT a problem.

Provincial drivers' licenses and some provincial benefits (health care in particular) may require presenting a PR card as proof of status in Canada when initially applying for these. But you should have obtained these, and hopefully you did, prior to the PR card expiring.


I have completed 365 days now. 1 more year to complete 730 days .

But was wondering if I can apply in DEC 2020. ( 730 days complete). I am now working from March 2019 and my wife is also working, 1 kid goes to school other one to day care. Bought a property in Nov 2019.

I read, no one should be outside Canada for more than 1095 days from the day they have done landing. I have stayed for more than 1095 days outside and my PR has expired now. When I apply next year dec if they let me stay without valid PR card still the question arises about 1095 days?
If you wait to apply for a new PR card until AFTER you have been IN Canada for 730+ days since your last arrival (no exits in the meantime), that totally cures any previous breach of the PR Residency Obligation.

Some PRs in this situation will have their PR card applications referred to non-routine processing, such as being given RQ-related requests (requiring the PR to present more proof of time in Canada) or a referral to Secondary Review. But, again, if you have waited to apply for a new PR card until AFTER you have been IN Canada for 730+ days since your last arrival, your status is OK (technically you may have to "prove" this time in Canada, but between the TRV for your child and working and all, that should not pose much if any problem). Thus, it may take a longer processing time, than it does for routinely processed applications, for your PR card application to result in actually getting the new PR card. But there should be no problem with keeping your status.

Once you reached the fifth year anniversary of the day you landed and became a PR, what matters is the calculation of days in and days absent from Canada within the previous five years. During that five years the PR needs to have been in Canada 730 or more days to be in compliance with the RO. If the PR has been absent 1096 or more days during this previous five year period, that means the PR could not have been in Canada 730 days.

Thus, today for example, what matters for you is how many days you have been IN Canada since December 26, 2014. If that number of days is less than 730, you are currently in breach of the PR RO. BUT since you are in Canada, as long as you do not apply for a new PR card or go abroad, no one is concerned about this. You are simply an individual with status to live in Canada permanently who is living in Canada.

The information about NOT being outside Canada more than 1095 days since landing only applies to PRs up to the fifth year anniversary of the date they landed. Since you apparently were absent from Canada more than 1095 days during that time, some will say you were "lucky" you were not reported and did not lose your status when you finally arrived here around a year ago. And in a very general sense, yes, that was lucky . . . except it was not so much a matter of chance (like what numbers come up when you roll dice or spin the roulette wheel) but more about your circumstances and whether the border officials were satisfied you deserved some additional flexibility and keeping your status.

There are some forum participants who respond to questions about this stuff based on personal opinions about what the rules should be or how the rules should be applied. Unfortunately they tend to not distinguish what they personally believe "should" happen VERSUS what "should" happen under the current rules as those rules are currently applied. There are still plenty of indicators that PRs making a genuine effort to come to Canada to settle PERMANENTLY during their first five years are allowed some H&C flexibility, and thus as you have experienced, are allowed to come to settle even though technically they breached the PR RO, and even allowed to sponsor a child before getting into compliance with the RO.

That is no mistake but rather a discretionary act on the part of IRCC AND it is consistent with the rules and precedents.

The latter should NOT be taken for granted by other PRs. For example, it was risky to make the sponsored PR application for the child, since that could have triggered a RO compliance determination with a negative outcome. It is ALWAYS RISKY for any PR in breach of the RO to engage in transactions with IRCC.

In your particular case, for example, it is possible your GCMS records including field notes from the PoE examination upon your arrival a year ago, and those notes may have reflected an explicit H&C determination. And if this was the case (I do NOT know it was, but maybe), that would easily explain why there was no problem with the sponsored PR application for your child.

SO, to be clear, for other PRs in similar circumstances, the H&C assessment might not be so favourable. Again, it is ALWAYS RISKY for any PR in breach of the RO to engage in transactions with IRCC.
 
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prince_of_darkness

Hero Member
May 15, 2013
434
29
Visa Office......
London
NOC Code......
2147
PR status does NOT expire.

You currently have valid PR status even though you do not have a valid PR card.

A PR does NOT need to have a valid PR card EXCEPT for the purpose of boarding transportation headed to Canada. So as long as a PR does not travel outside Canada, the fact the PR does not have a valid PR card is NOT a problem.

Provincial drivers' licenses and some provincial benefits (health care in particular) may require presenting a PR card as proof of status in Canada when initially applying for these. But you should have obtained these, and hopefully you did, prior to the PR card expiring.







If you wait to apply for a new PR card until AFTER you have been IN Canada for 730+ days since your last arrival (no exits in the meantime), that totally cures any previous breach of the PR Residency Obligation.

Some PRs in this situation will have their PR card applications referred to non-routine processing, such as being given RQ-related requests (requiring the PR to present more proof of time in Canada) or a referral to Secondary Review. But, again, if you have waited to apply for a new PR card until AFTER you have been IN Canada for 730+ days since your last arrival, your status is OK (technically you may have to "prove" this time in Canada, but between the TRV for your child and working and all, that should not pose much if any problem). Thus, it may take a longer processing time, than it does for routinely processed applications, for your PR card application to result in actually getting the new PR card. But there should be no problem with keeping your status.

Once you reached the fifth year anniversary of the day you landed and became a PR, what matters is the calculation of days in and days absent from Canada within the previous five years. During that five years the PR needs to have been in Canada 730 or more days to be in compliance with the RO. If the PR has been absent 1096 or more days during this previous five year period, that means the PR could not have been in Canada 730 days.

Thus, today for example, what matters for you is how many days you have been IN Canada since December 26, 2014. If that number of days is less than 730, you are currently in breach of the PR RO. BUT since you are in Canada, as long as you do not apply for a new PR card or go abroad, no one is concerned about this. You are simply an individual with status to live in Canada permanently who is living in Canada.

The information about NOT being outside Canada more than 1095 days since landing only applies to PRs up to the fifth year anniversary of the date they landed. Since you apparently were absent from Canada more than 1095 days during that time, some will say you were "lucky" you were not reported and did not lose your status when you finally arrived here around a year ago. And in a very general sense, yes, that was lucky . . . except it was not so much a matter of chance (like what numbers come up when you roll dice or spin the roulette wheel) but more about your circumstances and whether the border officials were satisfied you deserved some additional flexibility and keeping your status.

There are some forum participants who respond to questions about this stuff based on personal opinions about what the rules should be or how the rules should be applied. Unfortunately they tend to not distinguish what they personally believe "should" happen VERSUS what "should" happen under the current rules as those rules are currently applied. There are still plenty of indicators that PRs making a genuine effort to come to Canada to settle PERMANENTLY during their first five years are allowed some H&C flexibility, and thus as you have experienced, are allowed to come to settle even though technically they breached the PR RO, and even allowed to sponsor a child before getting into compliance with the RO.

That is no mistake but rather a discretionary act on the part of IRCC AND it is consistent with the rules and precedents.

The latter should NOT be taken for granted by other PRs. For example, it was risky to make the sponsored PR application for the child, since that could have triggered a RO compliance determination with a negative outcome. It is ALWAYS RISKY for any PR in breach of the RO to engage in transactions with IRCC.

In your particular case, for example, it is possible your GCMS records including field notes from the PoE examination upon your arrival a year ago, and those notes may have reflected an explicit H&C determination. And if this was the case (I do NOT know it was, but maybe), that would easily explain why there was no problem with the sponsored PR application for your child.

SO, to be clear, for other PRs in similar circumstances, the H&C assessment might not be so favourable. Again, it is ALWAYS RISKY for any PR in breach of the RO to engage in transactions with IRCC.
Thanks , for such a detailed explanation. When I landed at the airport, IRCC officials asked me how many days previously I had lived for which I said honestly not much and also I never presented any H&C circumstances even. Yes, you can call me lucky that I sponsored my son and in Jan 2019 and the PR was granted in June2019. Without any issues and questions.
At the moment my plan is to stay put till Dec 2020 and apply for PR renewal then as soon as its 730 days of continuous stay. regards to health card, license I have it all till 2023-2024 .
Was just worried about 1095 days but as u said its valid for people who are applying within the 5 years of their intial PR issuance. As I am already in breach but as u said the cure is 730 days which Hopefully I am working on it...Once I apply for PR renewal later next year theb most probably they will see the GMCS notes.