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Experts plz help. What are the chances of PRTD approval in my case?

folks

Member
Jul 11, 2012
17
1
Hello forum members and experts.

I am a PR from past 6 years and was about to renew the pr card but had to go overseas for some work related issues with my wife and son. My wife is also a new PR from 2017 and son is a Canadian citizen. So I was about to renew the pr card but later learnt that I don't meet the residency obligation. What should I do now? I know I have to apply for a PRTD but just wondering what are the chances of approval?

My wife is a new PR and holds a valid PR card so I guess she won't have any problems entering Canada. My son is already a Canadian citizen. The problem lies within me. I don't have a valid pr card and want to apply for a PRTD and don't meet residency requirements. I think I need to apply under humanitarian and compassionate ground. Should I mention that my son who is just 18 months old is a Canadian citizen and he has right to study in Canadian schools and have access to Canadian facilities. Also my wife and son are totally dependent on me. how do I go about it? how should I mention things on the PRTD forms to make sure I am on the positive side?

Also do you think my son(18 months old) is a strong factor for them to consider my PRTD approval?

Thanks
 

Bs65

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Mar 22, 2016
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Others can comment but doubtful H&C will work although you can obviously try but immigration will possibly take the attitude that you should know what the residency obligations are and financial/work reasons for failing RO are generally not accepted.

How many days did you actually spend in Canada in last 5 years, did you sponsor your spouse ? Assume your work reasons for being out of the country were not a temporary assignment for a Canadian company.
 
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folks

Member
Jul 11, 2012
17
1
Others can comment but doubtful H&C will work although you can obviously try but immigration will possibly take the attitude that you should know what the residency obligations are and financial/work reasons for failing RO are generally not accepted.

How many days did you actually spend in Canada in last 5 years, did you sponsor your spouse ? Assume your work reasons for being out of the country were not a temporary assignment for a Canadian company.
The total time I spent in Canada after I became a PR is around 400 days but in the recent 5 years counting from today it's around 300 days. Yes i sponsored my spouse and she became a PR in 2017. No Canadian company involved overseas. Does my son education count towards a good H&C reason for them to allow a PRTD? I heard children is a priority for them to allow PRTD under H&C ground keeping in mind the fact that the country I am right now is a third world country and quality of education is not good plus living conditions and also the child is a Canadian citizen?



Please explain this: Does it apply to my son who is a 18 months old Canadian citizen living overseas?

source: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/humanitarian-compassionate-consideration/processing/assessment-best-interests-child.html


Humanitarian and compassionate assessment: Best interests of a child

A decision on a humanitarian and compassionate (H&C) application must include an assessment of the best interests of any child directly affected by the decision. “Any child directly affected” in this context means a Canadian or foreign-born child (and could include children outside Canada).

The relationship between the applicant and “any child directly affected” need not necessarily be that of parent and child, but could be another relationship that is affected by the decision. For example, a grandparent could be the primary caregiver who is affected by an immigration decision that would in turn affect the child.

It must be sufficiently clear from the material submitted that an application relies in whole, or at least in part, on this factor. An applicant has the burden of justifying the basis of their H&C submission. For some applicants, it can be difficult to express themselves in writing and it may be warranted to invite the applicant to an interview. If an applicant provides insufficient evidence to support the fact that best interests of a child is a factor, the decision maker may conclude that the grant of the exemption is not justified.

In assessing H&C submissions, the decision makers must be “alert, alive and sensitive” to the best interests of the children (Baker v Canada (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration), [1999] 2 SCR 817) and should bear in mind that “[c]hildren will rarely, if ever, be deserving of any hardship” (Hawthorne v. Canada (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration), 2002 FCA 475, [2003] 2 F.C. 555). As children may experience greater hardship than adults faced with a comparable situation, circumstances which may not warrant humanitarian and compassionate relief when applied to an adult, may nonetheless entitle a child to relief (Kanthasamy v. Canada (Citizenship and Immigration), 2015 SCC 61).

The codification of the principle of “best interests of a child” into the legislation does not mean that the interests of the child outweigh all other factors in a case. While factors affecting children should be given substantial weight, the best interests of a child is only one of many important factors that the decision maker needs to consider when making an H&C decision that directly affects a child.

The outcome of a decision under A25(1) that directly affects a child will always depend on the facts of the case. Decision makers must consider all evidence submitted by an applicant in relation to their A25(1) request. The following guidelines are not an exhaustive list of factors relating to children, nor are they necessarily determinative of the decision. Rather, they are meant as a guide and illustrate the types of factors that are often present in A25(1) cases involving the best interests of a child. As stated by Madam Justice McLachlin of the Supreme Court of Canada, “[t]he multitude of factors that may impinge on the child’s best interest make a measure of indeterminacy inevitable. A more precise test would risk sacrificing the child’s best interests to expediency and certainty” (Gordon v Goertz, [1996] 2 S.C.R. 27).

Factors to consider
Generally, factors relating to a child’s emotional, social, cultural and physical welfare should be taken into account when raised. Some examples of factors that applicants may raise include but are not limited to:



    • the age of the child
    • the level of dependency between the child and the H&C applicant
    • the degree of the child’s establishment in Canada
    • the child’s links to the country in relation to which the H&C assessment is being considered
    • the conditions of that country and the potential impact on the child
    • medical issues or special needs the child may have
    • the impact to the child’s education
    • matters related to the child’s gender.
The facts surrounding a decision under A25(1) may sometimes give rise to the issue of whether the decision would place a child directly affected in a situation of risk. This issue of risk may arise regardless of whether the child is a Canadian citizen or foreign-born.

Children 18 years or over
BIOC must be considered when a child is under 18 years of age at the time the application is received. There may be cases in which the situation of older children is relevant and should be taken into consideration in an H&C assessment but if they are not under 18 years of age it is not a best interests of the child case.
 
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scylla

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Your son's education (or the fact he is a Canadian citizen) is not an H&C argument for being able to renew your PR status without being able to meet the residency requirement. H&C arguments are things that kept you outside of Canada and made you unable to return. You can certainly try the H&C argument but should expect refusal.

Most likely, your wife will need to sponsor you for PR once you lose your PR status officially. Note that she must be living in Canada in order to do this.
 

folks

Member
Jul 11, 2012
17
1
Your son's education (or the fact he is a Canadian citizen) is not an H&C argument for being able to renew your PR status without being able to meet the residency requirement. H&C arguments are things that kept you outside of Canada and made you unable to return. You can certainly try the H&C argument but should expect refusal.

Most likely, your wife will need to sponsor you for PR once you lose your PR status officially. Note that she must be living in Canada in order to do this.
This is scary. In my case I sponsored my wife and she recently got pr in 2017. Since I sponsored her, can she sponsor me right away or is there a wait time after I lose my pr status officially?
 

scylla

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This is scary. In my case I sponsored my wife and she recently got pr in 2017. Since I sponsored her, can she sponsor me right away or is there a wait time after I lose my pr status officially?
She can sponsor you as soon as you've officialy lost or given up your PR status.
 

scylla

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Hi thanks for your reply, but I read somewhere in this forum that there is a 5 year ban for sponsoring etc something like that?
Doesn't apply to this scenario. It would only apply if your wife and you split up and she wanted to sponsor a new partner for PR.

However be aware that the processing of your PR application could very well take around a year.
 

Bs65

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As I said in my original post the reason you stayed away seems to be work/ financial not for example to look after sick immediate relatives which often form the basis of H&C cases for failed residency obligation. Work/ financial wouldn’t be seen as a reason for ignoring meeting the residency obligation.

You could always travel back via the US assuming you have a US visa and cross the land border hoping you do not get reported but then you would need to stay put for 2 years without leaving at all.

PR sponsorship from scratch is quoted as 12 months but you should be aware of that having sponsored your spouse.

If you decide to apply for PRTD as H&C good luck if you succeed but if rejected then your PR status starts to get revoked .

Just to add that the fact your spouse being a PR and child being a citizen they could return to Canada any time to satisfy any best interests of the child.
 

folks

Member
Jul 11, 2012
17
1
As I said in my original post the reason you stayed away seems to be work/ financial not for example to look after sick immediate relatives which often form the basis of H&C cases for failed residency obligation. Work/ financial wouldn’t be seen as a reason for ignoring meeting the residency obligation.

You could always travel back via the US assuming you have a US visa and cross the land border hoping you do not get reported but then you would need to stay put for 2 years without leaving at all.

PR sponsorship from scratch is quoted as 12 months but you should be aware of that having sponsored your spouse.

If you decide to apply for PRTD as H&C good luck if you succeed but if rejected then your PR status starts to get revoked .

Just to add that the fact your spouse being a PR and child being a citizen they could return to Canada any time to satisfy any best interests of the child.
But the H&C clearly states that:

Humanitarian and compassionate assessment: Best interests of a child

A decision on a humanitarian and compassionate (H&C) application must include an assessment of the best interests of any child directly affected by the decision. “Any child directly affected” in this context means a Canadian or foreign-born child (and could include children outside Canada).


Factors to consider
Generally, factors relating to a child’s emotional, social, cultural and physical welfare should be taken into account when raised. Some examples of factors that applicants may raise include but are not limited to:


    • the age of the child
    • the level of dependency between the child and the H&C applicant
    • the degree of the child’s establishment in Canada
    • the child’s links to the country in relation to which the H&C assessment is being considered
    • the conditions of that country and the potential impact on the child (This point, the country is in terrible crisis)
    • medical issues or special needs the child may have
    • the impact to the child’s education (This point, directly affected because of low quality education in the country i.e third world)
    • matters related to the child’s gender.
 

folks

Member
Jul 11, 2012
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1
Ok I understand that I am unable to meet the ro but according to IRCC they see "child interest" importantly. So they are telling that even I failed to meet the RO they will look at my case strongly because of my child who will directly be affected by the decision if they denied me a PRTD. Keeping in mind the best interest of a child, I am under a strong impression that because of my son I might be allowed a PRTD to enter Canada even if I breached the RO. That's what I am understanding from this page.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/humanitarian-compassionate-consideration/processing/assessment-best-interests-child.html

Am I understanding it correctly or wrong?
 

scylla

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Ok I understand that I am unable to meet the ro but according to IRCC they see "child interest" importantly. So they are telling that even I failed to meet the RO they will look at my case strongly because of my child who will directly be affected by the decision if they denied me a PRTD.
We are explaining to you how we have seen IRCC handle similar cases to yours. You should assume that best interests of a child won't be of much assistance to you - you should still be expecting a refusal. And presumably your son has been spending most of his time outside of Canada until now - so that doesn't help to support the best interest argument.
 

scylla

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Ok I understand that I am unable to meet the ro but according to IRCC they see "child interest" importantly. So they are telling that even I failed to meet the RO they will look at my case strongly because of my child who will directly be affected by the decision if they denied me a PRTD. Keeping in mind the best interest of a child, I am under a strong impression that because of my son I might be allowed a PRTD to enter Canada even if I breached the RO. That's what I am understanding from this page.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/humanitarian-compassionate-consideration/processing/assessment-best-interests-child.html

Am I understanding it correctly or wrong?
You are placing far too much faith in the "best interest" argument. It probably won't help you at all. If it was this easy, everyone would simply have a child in Canada and then leave for however long they want - knowing their PR status could still be saved through H&C. It doesn't work this way. IRCC expect you to meet the residency requirement.

Most likely outcome if you apply for a PRTD is refusal.
 

folks

Member
Jul 11, 2012
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You are placing far too much faith in the "best interest" argument. It probably won't help you at all. If it was this easy, everyone would simply have a child in Canada and then leave for however long they want - knowing their PR status could still be saved through H&C. It doesn't work this way. IRCC expect you to meet the residency requirement.

Most likely outcome if you apply for a PRTD is refusal.
Thanks for replying. I will try the prtd option and update how it goes? thanks again.
 
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Rob_TO

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But the H&C clearly states that:

Humanitarian and compassionate assessment: Best interests of a child

A decision on a humanitarian and compassionate (H&C) application must include an assessment of the best interests of any child directly affected by the decision. “Any child directly affected” in this context means a Canadian or foreign-born child (and could include children outside Canada).


Factors to consider
Generally, factors relating to a child’s emotional, social, cultural and physical welfare should be taken into account when raised. Some examples of factors that applicants may raise include but are not limited to:


    • the age of the child
    • the level of dependency between the child and the H&C applicant
    • the degree of the child’s establishment in Canada
    • the child’s links to the country in relation to which the H&C assessment is being considered
    • the conditions of that country and the potential impact on the child (This point, the country is in terrible crisis)
    • medical issues or special needs the child may have
    • the impact to the child’s education (This point, directly affected because of low quality education in the country i.e third world)
    • matters related to the child’s gender.
Your wife and son can go to Canada easily and he can attend school here whether your own PR status is revoked or not. I don't see how best interest of child factors in at all here.
You had the choice to live in Canada with your family all this time, but made a personal decision to live in another country. So I don't see how any H&C argument can succeed in your case, but you can certainly try and see what happens.