Experts help!! Proxy-Marriage - Is it recognized by Canada Immigration???

[longtimewaiting]

Hi,

The Canadian visa office (processing my spouse family class application) is saying that our proxy-marriage done outside Canada is NOT recognized by Canada, even it is recognized by the country of marriage. And therefore my spouse can NOT apply for permanent residence in Canada under the spouse category.

The sponsorhsip was approved by CIC, and the Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) agents have confirmed multiple times over the phone that Canada recongizes proxy-marriages if the proxy-marriage is legal in the country of marriage.

The CIC call agents are telling us that what the visa office is saying is NOT correct, and CIC agents even sent me links in the CIC website saying proxy marriages are recognized by Canada if the marriage is legal in the country of marriage.

Please note that our marriage was consummated, and the Canadian visa office got our old wedding pictures, and we now have multiple kids from this proxy-marriage. Also we have a marriage certificate from the country of marriage and our proxy-marriage is legal in that country like any other type of marriage.

So, now the CIC call center agents are saying something totally different from the visa office. What should I do?

Does the visa office have the right to change the standard policy at Citizenship and Immigration Canada and claim that proxy marriages are not recognized by Canada, even if the marriage is legal in the country of marriage?

 

[matthewc]

You're quite correct that proxy marriages are acceptable, if (and only if) they are legal in the country where the marriage took place.

This is covered by CIC's processing manual OP2:

"Proxy marriage

At a proxy marriage one of the participants is not present and has named a
proxy to represent him or her. If the law of the country in which the marriage
ceremony was performed permits proxy marriages, they are legal marriages
for immigration purposes, provided they are legal under Canadian federal
law. See definition of “marriage” above and also Section 5.27 above."

As the applicant, you have to demonstrate to CIC that the marriage was legal in the country where it took place. Where were you married?

However, there may be other reasons why the marriage was not recognised. What exactly does the refusal letter say? (Type it here if you can - remove names of course.)

Depending on the exact reason for the refusal, your options would seem to be either:

(1) Try to convince the visa office the marriage was legal.
(2) The sponsor can appeal. If the marriage was legal and the visa office made a mistake, you should win on appeal.

 

[longtimewaiting]

Hi matthewc,

Thanks a lot for your reply and help. The CIC agent sent me the same link from the CIC's processing manual OP2. The CIC agent is saying that the visa office might not be aware that proxy marriages are acceptable if they are legal in the country of marriage.

"As the applicant, you have to demonstrate to CIC that the marriage was legal in the country where it took place. Where were you married?"

Our marriage was in Pakistan, and we have an offical certified marriage certificate, so it must be legal in the country of marriage if the government there is issuing us an offical marriage certificate. The visa office got a copy of the marriage certificate.

The visa office has not refused our application yet. The letter says that the following:

"Mr. YYYY,
We have reviewed your application for permanent resident as member of the family class. We determined that your marriage does not meet the requirements for immigration to Canada. Canada does not recognize proxy marriages, whether or not they are legal in the country of marriage. You can apply for immigration under the common-law partner class. Please provide statutory declaration of common-law partner to complete your application for permanent residence as a common-law partner. You have sixty days to reply to this letter."

So the visa office is saying that: "Canada does not recognize proxy marriages, whether or not they are legal in the country of marriage."


If I try to tell the visa office that they are not correct, and our proxy marriage is valid according to CIC, I am worried that they might think that I am challenging them, and that I know more than them, and they might not like this. If I go with their suggestion and provide the signed statutory declaration of common-law union, then they might ask me for two declarations from friends and family members certifying that we lived together for more than one year, and I will end up wasting more time collecting papers and asking friends to write those letters. I can do it since we are married for many long years, but I feel that we are not common-law partners, we are legally married couple and saying that we are common-law partners, when this is not correct, might cause problems in the future with the visa office if we go along with their suggestion now.

 

[matthewc]

That's good they didn't actually refuse you. Two things are fairly clear from reading that:

1. The visa officer doesn't know the rules about proxy marriages (and, unfortunately, hasn't bothered to check in the manual which should be on their desk guiding everything they do.)

2. They do realise that your relationship is genuine and continuing.

The second point is important. If they were going to refuse, they could have done so already. It seems to me they want to approve the application, and realise you would qualify as common-law if applying under that class.

I would suggest you do this:

1. Get the statutory declaration of common-law union completed.
2. Get two friends to complete statutory declarations that you are married, and have been living together for X years. (If you have to go to a lawyer / notary public already, getting an extra couple of declarations at the same time shouldn't be too much more effort.)
3. Write back to the visa officer. Include everything that would be needed to prove you qualify as common-law, and ALSO point out that your marriage is 100% legal. Include a printed out copy of the page from OP2:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf

If you politely point out the mistake, that cannot be grounds for refusing you. I'd suggest saying something like:

"Respectfully, I would like to draw to your attention to page 37 of processing manual OP 2 which was brought to my attention by the CIC call centre. It confirms that our proxy marriage, being legal in the country where the marriage took place, is recognised for Canadian immigration purposes.

In case you still determine that our marriage is not going to be recognised, I have also included the statutory declaration you requested, along with statutory declarations from two other people who can confirm that we have lived together for more than one year continuously, and would qualify as common-law partners."

 

[longtimewaiting]

Thank you very much for your reply. I really appreciate it.

Also, the CIC agent that said that proxy-marriages are recognized by Canada if the marriage is legal in the country of marriage, is suggesting that we send the link to the the CIC's processing manual OP2 to the visa office to show them that proxy-marriage is acceptable by Canada if the marriage is legal in the country of marriage. The CIC agent is saying that the visa office might not know this fact. The CIC agent asked us to tell the visa office to reconsider this.

The letter that we got was signed by a very top person from the visa office, so I am surprised that they don't know this.

Thanks for your suggestion about the letter to write to them. I think this is a smart way to resolve the issue.

I don't want to look like I am trying to be smart with them, and that I am telling them what to do. Visa offices normally do not like if the applicant tries to be smart with them, and visa office has all (or most) of the power with this process. So, it is better to have a friendly relationship with them. Specially, since the letter came from one of the top people at the visa office.

I was thinking of sending this top officer an email asking them to reconsider since this might be faster, but it could be riskly since they asked for the declaration of common-law partner, so they know what they want, and they might feel that I am wasting their time with emails and I do not want to follow what they asked me to do.

Thank you very much for the help. I think doing the extra effort and getting the notarized letters from the friends and giving them the common-law form will show that I am following their orders and I am not trying to be smart with them.

 

[matthewc]

I actually think you're better off putting it in writing, and sending them everything needed to approve the application at the same time. It will take a day or so longer while you get the statutory declaration and mail it in, but it seems safer to me.

It's possible they might respond positively to an email, but - like you said - if they think you're being smart and don't plan to send the statutory declaration, that might not work out well.

Also, if you put it in writing, it's on record in the (I would say unlikely) event you end up having to appeal.

 

[longtimewaiting]

Hi matthewc,

Thank you very much for the reply. I agree with you, puting things in writing is a good idea, since they might, or might not like the email. It is better to give them everything they want in a single package.

I will also, when I go to the notary public, I will get two notarized copies of each letter from the friends and the the statutory declaration of the common-law, just in case they loose the first set that I send them, so that I can re-send the notarized letters a second time, if the first set is lost. I don't want to take my friends to the notary office twice, so it is better to get two notarized copy of each form/letter. I have read messages on this board about things getting lost in visa offices.

Thanks a lot for your help matthewc. I will go ahead with your advice.

 

[longtimewaiting]

2. Get two friends to complete statutory declarations that you are married, and have been living together for X years. (If you have to go to a lawyer / notary public already, getting an extra couple of declarations at the same time shouldn't be too much more effort.)

Hi matthewc,

In the statutory declaration that my two friends will sign, it is ok if they say that they know us to be "married", or that they know us to be in common-law relationship?

All of our friends know that we are married, but the visa office does not recognize the marriage and they asking for statutory declaration of common-law partner, so I am not sure if it is important for our friends to certify our relationship as being married or being in a common-law relationship. Do you think it would be acceptable by the visa office if our two friends write in the statutory declaration that my wife ane I are married, even though the visa office does not recognize the marriage?

In my culture, people are either married or not, we don't have a thing called "common-law partner", so my two friends know that we are married, and they will prefer that they certify that we are married since this is the correct term to use for our relationship.

Thanks a lot for your help.

 

[matthewc]

Unless they were actually present at the wedding, my suggestion would be that they write that they know you "as a married couple", and know you have been living together since your wedding. That addresses that you're public about your relationship, present yourselves as being married, but would also meet the definition of common-law.

The fact that you're living together (and have been for years) is really the most important part, since if the visa office continues to not recognise the legality of your marriage, it sounds like they will be approve you as common-law anyway.

 

[longtimewaiting]

Thank you very much for the advice.
This a very good way to write the letter.
I appreciate your help and best regards.

 

[matthewc]

You're welcome. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

 

[longtimewaiting]

Sounds good. I will keep you posted and hope it works.

Thanks a lot and best regards.

 

[BeShoo]

The important thing for common law is that you have been living in a marriage-like arrangement continuously for at least one year. So, the thing your friends have to attest to is that you've been living as a married couple, regardless of whether you are actually married under Canadian law.

 

[matthewc]

Looks good. The notary may tweak the wording a little. I can't see any problem with both friends using the same letter, but if they customise it, that doesn't hurt either.

 

[BeShoo]

I think it's better if the letters are different so it doesn't look like they just signed a form letter without really reading it.

Some good customizations might be which of you they met first and how they came to meet you at all, mention of any activities they participated in with both of you as a couple.

Here's some information on what we did and a sample of how the lawyer reworded things formally here: http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/statutory-declarations-t51733.0.html;msg404185#msg404185

Read that whole thread and there's another one here that might be useful to you: http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/-t54357.0.html