Experience Reference Letter

[sunitha1689]

Hi All,
Am a PGWP candidate who is looking to apply for CEC class. Am completing my one year experience in IT on July 2017 in Canada. I also have 2 years and 4 months experience in an IT company that is in India. Only problem is that I could not get a reference letter from my previous employer but I have my offer letter , experience letter, resignation letter and other tax documents from them. My employer is not ready to give me the reference letter as it is not in their policy. I have email proof for that.

My question is that. While applying for EE in CEC class should I claim for CRS points for my experience in India ?? Or can I just show my experience in personal history but not claim for CRS points ??

What will be the consequences for both? Can anyone please explain this.

 

[kk1988]

no one can exactly tell you what would be the consequences if you don't claim your India working experiences points.
maybe you should consult immigration lawyer for the accurate answer.

 

[jes_ON]

Am a PGWP candidate who is looking to apply for CEC class. Am completing my one year experience in IT on July 2017 in Canada. I also have 2 years and 4 months experience in an IT company that is in India. Only problem is that I could not get a reference letter from my previous employer but I have my offer letter , experience letter, resignation letter and other tax documents from them. My employer is not ready to give me the reference letter as it is not in their policy. I have email proof for that.

My question is that. While applying for EE in CEC class should I claim for CRS points for my experience in India ?? Or can I just show my experience in personal history but not claim for CRS points ??

What will be the consequences for both? Can anyone please explain this.

If you do not include your foreign work experience in your profile, you will lose points. How many points? You can use one of the online calculators to determine your points with and without the foreign work experience.

If you do include the experience, earn points and and ITA, and IRCC later determines that you do not have sufficient proof, they would deduct the points and if your score then fell below the ITA threshold for your draw, you would be refused.

However, it sounds like you have very good alternative documentation in lieu of the letter of reference. The only questions I would ask you are (a) do you have proof of the number of hours you worked, and (b) do you have any documents that describe your job duties and responsibilities, to prove the NOC / Skilled work experience? If yes, you should be able to get the experience accepted.

 

[shyguy]

I have preserved my appointment letters. However, I used to work as an Assistant Professor, where my contract would be for eleven months each year and then have the contract renewed after 1 month gap. Each year, I would work more than 1560 hours (which are considered as minimum for full time), but including paid vacation. Is that good enough? Do such 11 months contract for 4 consecutive years serve the purpose (it was the same university every year)? or because of the 1 month gap, it will be a problem?

 

[jes_ON]

I have preserved my appointment letters. However, I used to work as an Assistant Professor, where my contract would be for eleven months each year and then have the contract renewed after 1 month gap. Each year, I would work more than 1560 hours (which are considered as minimum for full time), but including paid vacation. Is that good enough? Do such 11 months contract for 4 consecutive years serve the purpose (it was the same university every year)? or because of the 1 month gap, it will be a problem?

It would be better to get a letter from the university stating that you worked for four years... even though a gap is quite normal for academia.

The only time you should consider using alternative documentation is if it is completely impossible to get the letter of reference (the standard documentation). I have a hard time believing that a university would refuse to give this.

 

[shyguy]

It would be better to get a letter from the university stating that you worked for four years... even though a gap is quite normal for academia.

The only time you should consider using alternative documentation is if it is completely impossible to get the letter of reference (the standard documentation). I have a hard time believing that a university would refuse to give this.

The problem is that in my country, the education system has a university and many colleges come under it. The university sets the broad rules and regulations, the colleges implement it. Though the colleges come under the university , most reference letters, appointment letters etc are issued by the college, not by the university. I have a very good rapport with my college Principal (head of the institute). I can get a letter from her , but I am pretty sure the university won't even know who I am. That's just how the system is. I can get a letter from my principal saying I worked for 4 consecutive years. If I attach my appointment letters, it will become obvious that each of those 4 years was a 11 month contract. By the way, does it have to be continuous? Or is it enough if I'm working more than 1560 hours every year, even if there's a month gap after every year?

 

[jes_ON]

The problem is that in my country, the education system has a university and many colleges come under it. The university sets the broad rules and regulations, the colleges implement it. Though the colleges come under the university , most reference letters, appointment letters etc are issued by the college, not by the university. I have a very good rapport with my college Principal (head of the institute). I can get a letter from her , but I am pretty sure the university won't even know who I am. That's just how the system is. I can get a letter from my principal saying I worked for 4 consecutive years. If I attach my appointment letters, it will become obvious that each of those 4 years was a 11 month contract. By the way, does it have to be continuous? Or is it enough if I'm working more than 1560 hours every year, even if there's a month gap after every year?

College.. university... doesn't matter as long as you get the letter.

No need to attach appointment letters.

Do you expect to qualify under CEC or FSW? Don't worry about it being "continuous" if you're under CEC. But if it's under FSW, yes, there is a requirement that you have at least one year of full-time continuous work experience in your main NOC to qualify. One year of full-time work is the minimum requirement, or the equivalent in part-time work (Hours are only provided so that part-time workers can calculate their full-time equivalent, which by definition will take longer than one year to acquire). I realize this is not exactly explained very well in all places on the IRCC website....

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/express/intake-complete.asp

I'm not suggesting that the "break" or the contracts be hidden, not at all, Just it could matter how the letter frames the issue. An "academic year" in Canada can be 8 months, so "11-month renewable contracts" doesn't really sound bad at all. I'm not sure how you consider that month break - as a "break," a vacation, unemployment ... I would just try to emphasize as much continuity as possible, and offer a brief explanation of the "academic year" in your country...

 

[shyguy]

College.. university... doesn't matter as long as you get the letter.

No need to attach appointment letters.

Do you expect to qualify under CEC or FSW? Don't worry about it being "continuous" if you're under CEC. But if it's under FSW, yes, there is a requirement that you have at least one year of full-time continuous work experience in your main NOC to qualify. One year of full-time work is the minimum requirement, or the equivalent in part-time work (Hours are only provided so that part-time workers can calculate their full-time equivalent, which by definition will take longer than one year to acquire). I realize this is not exactly explained very well in all places on the IRCC website....

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/express/intake-complete.asp

I'm not suggesting that the "break" or the contracts be hidden, not at all, Just it could matter how the letter frames the issue. An "academic year" in Canada can be 8 months, so "11-month renewable contracts" doesn't really sound bad at all. I'm not sure how you consider that month break - as a "break," a vacation, unemployment ... I would just try to emphasize as much continuity as possible, and offer a brief explanation of the "academic year" in your country...

Jes_ON: Your reply is tremendously helpful. I was told that FSW or CEC is assigned automatically by the system, depending on which one has a lower acceptance score. In either case, I will request my Principal to specify that the one month vacation was a paid vacation, given under university rules. I will basically have to draft the whole letter myself and then request her to sign it if she's ok with the content. As of now, my scores are as follows:
1) 32 years + Canadian Masters + NO canadian work ex + no foreign work ex (assuming CIC rejects work ex letter)= 445 CRS points.
2) 32 years + Canadian Masters + No Canadian work ex + 3 years foreign work ex (assuming CIC accepts work ex letter)= 495 CRS Points.
3) Two years from now : 34 years + Canadian Masters + 2 Years Canadian Skill Category B Work Ex + NO foreign work ex (Assuming CIC rejects work ex letter from home country) = 498 CRS Points
4) Two Years fromnow : 34 years + Canadian Masters + 2 Years Canadian Skill Category B Work EX + 3 Years foreign work ex (Assuming CIC accepts work ex letter from home country) = 548 CRS Points

Option 3 and Option 4 are assuming there are no further changes in the CRS system.

I think my best bet is to use option 2 and pray that CIC allows it under FSW, coz it is genuinely a full time job I did back home. If i make my profile right now instead of waiting for Canadian Work Ex, I am exposed to lower risk of changes in points system. But if you're saying that FSW requires one year continuous work-ex, thats a bit of a risk if they give me trouble about the 11 month contract.

PS: In the meantime, if Masters Stream with No job offer under Ontario Immigrant Nomination Program re-opens, I will be using that. The above options are if the OINP Masters Graduate without job offer stream doesn't open.

 

[jes_ON]

Jes_ON: Your reply is tremendously helpful. I was told that FSW or CEC is assigned automatically by the system, depending on which one has a lower acceptance score.

The system will tell you which one to apply to, but you must know if you are eliglible under CEC or not. If you are eligible for both, you will get the ITA for CEC automatically.

In either case, I will request my Principal to specify that the one month vacation was a paid vacation, given under university rules.

That is fine, as long as it is true. Based on what you have previously said, it is not true. I do not recommend lying to IRCC.

PS: In the meantime, if Masters Stream with No job offer under Ontario Immigrant Nomination Program re-opens, I will be using that.

I am confident it will re-open around the first of the year, but you should be ready to apply immediately, because the quota for that program fills VERY quickly...

 

[shyguy]

I don't know where I might have given you the impression that my vacation was unpaid, but I appreciate your concern and advice. It's a rather confusing system in India. For non tenured professors, they get paid for the one month vacation ONLY if the contract is renewed in the next academic year. They keep this condition coz earlier it was difficult to sack inefficient professors, if the college offered 12 month contracts (something to do with a technical clause in the law). So, they offer 11 month contracts and they pay you for the 12 th month IF they renew your contract in the next academic year. The college management was delighted with my work ethics and student feedback. They have always renewed my contract without hesitation, and in fact they had gone out of their way to expedite the process for getting me tenure (which ironically I did get, just before I resigned and left for Canada). The frustrating part will be to get all that on paper. Thanks a lot for your advice. I pray that what you said about master's stream reopening is true.

 

[jes_ON]

I don't know where I might have given you the impression that my vacation was unpaid,

LOL, because you stated you had 11 month contracts. That would mean a 1 month gap in employment for each year (i.e. "unemployed"). But your explanation abovemakes sense. That's why it's better to describe the whole scenario rather than just contract by contract... Hopefully it won't be too difficult to get the letter. Make sure the info about the paid vacation is in the letter too - you don't want the VO to get the same wrong idea that I did : ) Good luck!

 

[shyguy]

Noted. Thanks once again. My life will be a lot easier if master's stream opens up. I pray that it does.