Evidence to support self-employment foreign work experience

[wannabePR]

I'm going to complete 1 year of working in Canada next month and I'm getting ready to apply for CEC. I have a question related to my foreign work experience.

In Canada, I've been working for an employer on a full-time permanent position since September 2015.

My work experience outside of Canada, however, is primarily self-employment:

- 1 year working as a contractor where I have following proof: a contract and monthly invoices with listed tasks and amount of money paid to me.

- 5 years of running my own business where first 2 years I had no income and following 3 years for which I have bank statements to proof income. However, there's no clear evidence of my duties as I was an owner and the only employee of the company, and was developing software which was selling premium subscriptions. So, the ultimate income was not related to duties I conducted. It was rather the result of operating products that I developed and was maintaining. It seems like that is not a typical case, where you provide services for money, and thus can demonstrate the strong connection between a type of work completed and payment received.

In this cases, I've heard that you might get reference letters from your clients, partners, advisers and accountants. So, that's what I set out to do. I already have a reference letter from my accounting and legal advising firm. Also, I'm planning to show contracts with payment aggregators which were collecting money from end-users for me. Lastly, I feel that letter of explanation would be required to explain all that.

It'd be great to get advice from someone who already went through or about to apply, and have the similar situation. What further proof I can provide? Is it necessary to go into such details for CEC application?

I appreciate greatly you help!

 

[coolhyd]

Re: Self-employed foreign work experience under CEC question

I'm going to complete 1 year of working in Canada next month and I'm getting ready to apply for CEC. I have a question related to my foreign work experience.

My work experience outside of Canada is primarily self-employed:
- 1 year working as a contractor where I have following proof: a contract and monthly invoices with listed tasks and amount of money paid to me.
- 5 years of running my own business where first 2 years I had no income and following 3 years for which I have bank statements to proof income. However, there's no clear evidence of my duties as I was the owner and the only employee of the company, and was developing software where premium subscriptions were sold. So, the ultimate income was not related to duties I conducted. It was rather the result of operating products that I developed and was maintaining. It seems like that is not a typical case, where you provide services for money, and thus can demonstrate the strong connection between a type of work completed and payment received.

In this cases, I've heard that you may get reference letters from your clients, partners, advisers and accountants. So, that's what I set out to do. I already have a reference letter from my accounting and legal advising firm. Also, I'm planning to show contracts with payment aggregators which were collecting money from end-users for me. Lastly, I feel that letter of explanation would be required to explain all that.

It'd be great to get advice from someone who already went through or about to apply, and have the similar situation. What further proof I can provide? Is it necessary to go into such details for CEC application?

I appreciate greatly you help!

I don't think you can claim self employed experience towards express entry.

 

[wannabePR]

Re: Self-employed foreign work experience under CEC question

I know that self-employed experience doesn't count towards CEC, but that's previous foreign work experience that I'd like to claim. Moreover, it's related to NOC code I'm applying under. I've heard that self-employed work outside of Canada can be claimed, although it's quite difficult to explain.

If I meet CEC criteria with Canadian work experience, will it matter what type of employment I had prior coming to Canada?

 

[istari]

Re: Self-employed foreign work experience under CEC question

I know that self-employed experience doesn't count towards CEC, but that's foreign work experience that I'd like to claim. Moreover, it's related to NOC code I'm applying under. I've heard that self-employed work outside of Canada can be claimed, although it's quite difficult to explain.

If I meet CEC criteria with Canadian work experience, will it matter what type of employment I had prior coming to Canada?

CIC doesn't seem to mention anything specific about foreign work experience for CEC applicants.

It says:

(2) A foreign national is a member of the Canadian experience class if

(a) they have acquired in Canada, within the three years before the date on which their application for permanent residence is made, at least one year of full-time work experience, or the equivalent in part-time work experience, in one or more occupations that are listed in Skill Type 0 Management Occupations or Skill Level A or B of the National Occupational Classification matrix, exclusive of restricted occupations; and

[...]

(3) For the purposes of subsection (2),

(b) any period of self-employment or unauthorized work shall not be included in calculating a period of work experience;

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227/page-19.html#docCont

I would assume that 3(b) applies only to Canadian experience, but I'm not certain.

 

[wannabePR]

Re: Self-employed foreign work experience

CIC doesn't seem to mention anything specific about foreign work experience for CEC applicants.

It says: [link]

I would assume that 3(b) applies only to Canadian experience, but I'm not certain.

That what I assume as well. It has to be allowed to claim self-employed work experience for FSW though, as they even have a note on a document checklist for FSW:

Note: Self-employed individuals must provide documents from 3rd party individual(s) indicating the service provided along with payment details. Self-declared main duties or affidavits are not acceptable evidence of work experience.

However, I'm confused about my situation where I don't have direct connecting between services provided and payment. I was developing products that were making money. Developing those products is my NOC, and I'm thinking on what evidence I can demonstrate to better support my developing experience in this case.

Since I'm applying under CEC, I also hope that they won't be strict as for the proof of foreign work experience, and simple Articles of Incorporation, partnership contracts and letter from my accountants/legal advisers will be sufficient evidence of my work experience.

 

[jes_ON]

Re: Self-employed foreign work experience

That what I assume as well. It has to be allowed to claim self-employed work experience for FSW though, as they even have a note on a document checklist for FSW:

However, I'm confused about my situation where I don't have direct connecting between services provided and payment. I was developing products that were making money. Developing those products is my NOC, and I'm thinking on what evidence I can demonstrate to better support my developing experience in this case.

Since I'm applying under CEC, I also hope that they won't be strict as for the proof of foreign work experience, and simple Articles of Incorporation, partnership contracts and letter from my accountants/legal advisers will be sufficient evidence of my work experience.

Just generalize a bit to your situation... instead of payments for services, how did you make money? Licensing fees? Royalties? Surely you have some documentation of whatever arrangements you made with whomever used your products.

 

[jes_ON]

Re: Self-employed foreign work experience under CEC question

I know that self-employed experience doesn't count towards CEC, but that's previous foreign work experience that I'd like to claim. Moreover, it's related to NOC code I'm applying under. I've heard that self-employed work outside of Canada can be claimed, although it's quite difficult to explain.

If I meet CEC criteria with Canadian work experience, will it matter what type of employment I had prior coming to Canada?

You have to think of it as a dual application - one for EE, and one for a program (in your case, CEC). Self-employment will not be considered and is not a factor at all in the CEC eligibility assessment. However, to even get to that stage, you need to have your Expression of Interest accepted, and have enough CRS points to earn an invitation. For the EE application, your foreign work experience WILL earn you points (regardless of which program you are eligible for).

Yes, foreign self-employment experience is valid for the profile and CRS points. You will have to document it to keep the points, even if it is not relevant to your CEC eligibility.

 

[wannabePR]

Re: Evidence to support self-employed foreign work experience

Just generalize a bit to your situation... instead of payments for services, how did you make money? Licensing fees? Royalties? Surely you have some documentation of whatever arrangements you made with whomever used your products.

Absolutely, not precisely what you said, but I have documentation of arrangments with payment gateways that authorized credit cards transactions and direct payments from end users. It doesn't look as good as licensing or royalty agreement, but that's at least proof of the fact that money was transferred and by who.

You have to think of it as a dual application - one for EE, and one for a program (in your case, CEC). Self-employment will not be considered and is not a factor at all in the CEC eligibility assessment. However, to even get to that stage, you need to have your Expression of Interest accepted, and have enough CRS points to earn an invitation. For the EE application, your foreign work experience WILL earn you points (regardless of which program you are eligible for).

Yes, foreign self-employment experience is valid for the profile and CRS points. You will have to document it to keep the points, even if it is not relevant to your CEC eligibility.

That's very helpful explanation. Never thought of it as a dual application. Well, if my Canadian work experience earns me qualification under CEC program then my self-employment foreign work experience doesn't even have to be related to NOC code of work experience in Canada, and the only thing I need to proof is that such experience was in fact. Is that correct?

In the case of self-employment, how the actual time that you worked is counted? How would they know that you worked full-time or part-time while you were running your own business? Or they don't care as long as you were constantly earning money?

 

[jes_ON]

Re: Evidence to support self-employed foreign work experience

That's very helpful explanation. Never thought of it as a dual application. Well, if my Canadian work experience earns me qualification under CEC program then my self-employment foreign work experience doesn't even have to be related to NOC code of work experience in Canada, and the only thing I need to proof is that such experience was in fact. Is that correct?

That is correct, but of course it is inherently more difficult (more paperwork, anyway) to prove with self employment - and perhaps even harder in your case. Don't forget any tax documents that your country may issue that proves reported (business) income...

In the case of self-employment, how the actual time that you worked is counted? How would they know that you worked full-time or part-time while you were running your own business? Or they don't care as long as you were constantly earning money?

Well, they DO care because it affects how your points are calculated. And if your earnings and other documentation do not support a claim of working full-time, then the VO could reject the experience and you would lose the points.

Do your best to estimate approx. hours worked per week, and put that in your letter of explanation. Then find a third party who is willing to attest to that - remember, your word alone has no value, it must be supported by documentation and/or 3rd party
testiment...

If you worked part-time (fewer than 30 hours per week), then you have to calculate your "full time equivalence" - hours worked per week multiplied by # of weeks worked, divided by 30 = FTE weeks. (where 52 FTE weeks = 1 year, 104 = 2 years etc.) to estimate your eligibility for points.

 

[Stanlee]

I'm going to complete 1 year of working in Canada next month and I'm getting ready to apply for CEC. I have a question related to my foreign work experience.

In Canada, I've been working for an employer on a full-time permanent position since September 2015.

My work experience outside of Canada, however, is primarily self-employment:

- 1 year working as a contractor where I have following proof: a contract and monthly invoices with listed tasks and amount of money paid to me.

- 5 years of running my own business where first 2 years I had no income and following 3 years for which I have bank statements to proof income. However, there's no clear evidence of my duties as I was an owner and the only employee of the company, and was developing software which was selling premium subscriptions. So, the ultimate income was not related to duties I conducted. It was rather the result of operating products that I developed and was maintaining. It seems like that is not a typical case, where you provide services for money, and thus can demonstrate the strong connection between a type of work completed and payment received.

In this cases, I've heard that you might get reference letters from your clients, partners, advisers and accountants. So, that's what I set out to do. I already have a reference letter from my accounting and legal advising firm. Also, I'm planning to show contracts with payment aggregators which were collecting money from end-users for me. Lastly, I feel that letter of explanation would be required to explain all that.

It'd be great to get advice from someone who already went through or about to apply, and have the similar situation. What further proof I can provide? Is it necessary to go into such details for CEC application?

I appreciate greatly you help!

This is what OINP Application Guide (Human Capital Priorities Stream) says about document required for self-employed (FSWP applicants). Hope it could be of help.

If you are or have been self-employed, provide copies of all the following documentation for periods of self-employment, if available:
- Business/company registration documents;
- Proof of business conducted with clients (i.e., invoices, bills, and client references);
- Balance sheets;
- Income tax returns;
- T4A Statements (if self-employed in Canada); AND
- Proof of license to practice if you are a private practitioner in a regulated occupation.

 

[Bhagirath Jadeja]

Re: Self-employed foreign work experience



That what I assume as well. It has to be allowed to claim self-employed work experience for FSW though, as they even have a note on a document checklist for FSW:



However, I'm confused about my situation where I don't have direct connecting between services provided and payment. I was developing products that were making money. Developing those products is my NOC, and I'm thinking on what evidence I can demonstrate to better support my developing experience in this case.

Since I'm applying under CEC, I also hope that they won't be strict as for the proof of foreign work experience, and simple Articles of Incorporation, partnership contracts and letter from my accountants/legal advisers will be sufficient evidence of my work experience.

Did you get your PR, thanks