dpenabill said:
The real question is whether a PR carrying a visa-exempt passport can obtain the eTA using his or her visa-exempt passport.
Not legally, no.
The IRPA defines a foreign national as such:
foreign national means a person who is not a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident, and includes a stateless person. (étranger)
A foreign national is generally required to get a visa:
7 (1) A foreign national may not enter Canada to remain on a temporary basis without first obtaining a temporary resident visa.
There are some exceptions:
Visa exemption — nationality
190 (1) A foreign national is exempt from the requirement to obtain a temporary resident visa if they
(a) are a citizen of Andorra, Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Austria, Bahamas, Barbados, Belgium, Brunei Darussalam, Chile, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Federal Republic of Germany, Finland, France, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Papua New Guinea, Poland, Portugal, Republic of Korea, Samoa, San Marino, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Solomon Islands, Spain, Sweden or Switzerland;
This was amended to require an ETA:
7.1 (1) A foreign national referred to in paragraph 7(2)(a) who is exempt from the requirement to obtain a temporary resident visa and who, on or after March 15, 2016, is seeking to enter Canada by air to remain on a temporary basis is, nevertheless, required to obtain an electronic travel authorization before entering Canada, unless they are exempted by subsection (3) from the requirement to obtain one.
http://gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2015/2015-04-22/html/sor-dors77-eng.php
A permanent resident is not a foreign national, therefore they are not required to get a visa, therefore they are not required to get an ETA. As such, they are not permitted to get one. This is why CIC states:
You cannot apply for an eTA if you are:
a Canadian citizen or a dual Canadian citizen,
a Canadian permanent resident, or
a U.S. citizen. (However, lawful permanent residents of the U.S. need an eTA if travelling by air.)
That is, once the eTA system is fully in force, will a Canadian PR be able to use his or her visa-exempt passport to obtain the eTA? If not, if the system screens and identifies PRs and precludes eTA for PRs, that will indeed make returning to Canada more difficult for PRs without a valid PR card and not in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation . . . and may require many PRs who live with a Canadian citizen spouse abroad to obtain a PR TD rather than use their visa-exempt passport to travel to Canada.
When you apply for an ETA, it specifically says you are not permitted to. When you actually apply, it asks if you
ever applied to enter Canada, and asks for your UCI if you have. If you don't provide it, they will almost certainly find it, as that is part of the screening process.
Unless you are willing to lie, they will find out. If you do lie, you run a significant risk of being found out later.
IRPA s40:
40 (1) A permanent resident or a foreign national is inadmissible for misrepresentation
(a) for directly or indirectly misrepresenting or withholding material facts relating to a relevant matter that induces or could induce an error in the administration of this Act;
That would apply in this case, and you've given them everything they need to prove it. Even if they don't catch you immediately, they might notice when a visa-exempt traveller does not leave, and do an investigation. At that point, it would be pretty trivial to figure out what happened. When an ETA was issued to "John Smith, born in the UK, on this day", and there is a PR with the exact same information, they won't have to look too hard if they want to.
CIC's canned answer is superficial, which in many respects is typical:
No, you will not need an eTA if you are a permanent resident of Canada. When eTA becomes mandatory on March 15, 2016, you will need to travel with your permanent resident card of Canada. Otherwise, you may not be able to board your flight to Canada.
That basically says nothing more than the absolute obvious (a PR abroad with a valid PR card can use the PR card to board a flight destined to Canada . . . same as it has been) with a misleading twist.
It's not misleading. It's "may". You can use a PR card. There are a few exceptions, such as a PRTD. There are a few other exceptions, such as a NEXUS card if travelling from the United States. You might also be "Her Majesty in right of Canada and any member of the Royal Family", in which case the requirement does not apply. You can also be a US national, at which point the ETA requirement is not applicable. You can be "a citizen of France who is a resident of St. Pierre and Miquelon who seeks to enter Canada directly from St. Pierre and Miquelon". You can hold a diplomatic passport. You can transit through Canada as a passenger on a flight stopping in Canada only to refuel while in transit to or from the United States.
What does "otherwise" mean? It is so broad as to be, in effect, meaningless and in some respects misleading. A PR abroad with a valid PR Travel Document, for example?
That's one exception. I listed some of the others.
PRs with a valid PR card could previously board a flight destined to Canada with no other documentation as to authorization to enter Canada.
Yes.
The eTA program does not change this at all. (Individual countries still have their own border controls, which may include other requirements for leaving the country or boarding an international flight, and thus may impose exit controls or may require airlines to require other documentation, such as a passport.)
Yes.
To date, and still, Canadian PRs are technically required to present either a valid PR card or a PR Travel Document in order to board a flight destined for Canada. CIC's response to the question does not address the PR TD situation, but it is quite certain this continues and is not affected by the eTA program.
Yes. The regulations for this are here:
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5023-eng.html
The carriers are required to enforce this to the best of their abilities:
Passengers carried by transporters must be properly documented for travel to Canada. Transporters are prohibited from carrying to Canada any person who does not hold the prescribed documents required for entry to Canada. Failure to meet this requirement can result in an assessment of an administration fee, as well as prosecution in certain circumstances.
The requirements for PRs and Citizens are:
Canadian citizens, permanent residents of Canada and registered Indians in Canada enter Canada by right. To be accepted for travel, Canadian citizens, permanent residents and registered Indians must be able to produce satisfactory evidence of their identity and status.
Practically, the airline has no way to know if you are a Permanent Resident or not, so if you present them with the documents they need to permit you to travel, they have done their job. The ETA won't change that, however, by requiring you to provide them with an ETA, the government of Canada has the ability to require you to get approval from them before you are permitted to travel. This has the side effect of making it easier for them to catch Permanent Residents who have not met their obligations.
Thus, PRs with a valid PR card OR a PR TD should continue to be allowed to board flights destined for Canada.
Per the regulations that apply to commercial carriers, yes. You may be required to present a passport:
International transportation companies may require travellers to present a passport.
However, you are not required under Canadian law to have one, nor is the carrier required by Canadian law to insist you do. The statute does, however, legally permit them to require one from you before they accept you for travel.
To date, most reports indicate that Canadian PRs in possession of a valid visa-exempt passport can routinely board a flight destined for Canada by presenting their visa-exempt passport, without displaying a PR card or a PR TD. Technically this should not be allowed, but practically this appears to be at least common.
Yes. The airline follows the rules, and you showing a visa exempt passport meets
their requirements, as far as they are able to know. Those requirements apply to them. Technically, if you are improperly documented, you cause them to violate the IRPA:
If a transporter has carried an improperly documented person, the transporter will be notified that it is in violation of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.
Which brings us back to s40 misrepresentation:
for directly or indirectly misrepresenting or withholding material facts relating to a relevant matter that induces or could induce an error in the administration of this Act
Technically, it's misrepresentation, however as a practical matter, it does not seem to be enforced in any way, shape, or form. CIC and the CBSA mainly seem to care about what you tell them, not what you tell the airline.
Obviously this will at least partially end under the eTA program.
Yes. The only way to get an ETA as a Permanent Resident is to lie. I applied for one (as a test) for an upcoming trip, and they refused me because I was a Permanent Resident. They told me to get a PRTD instead.
Note: there has been NO reliable suggestion I am aware of that airlines might accept an expired PR card for purposes of showing status to enter Canada. I am quite sure that the regulations requiring airlines to screen boarding passengers for status to enter Canada do not allow this. Individual passengers may, on occasion, persuade airline staff otherwise, but this is likely unusual if not rare. Boarding the flight screening is different than POE screening: at the POE, presentation of an expired PR card can facilitate entry.
This is correct. The regulations prohibit the use of expired documents for identification for a commercial carrier. An expired PR card, however, is evidence of identity, and evidence supporting a claim of Permanent Residence. Under the IRPA, it is not considered presumptive proof, but like the CoPR it has evidential value.
Once the eTA program is in full force, visa-exempt travelers will be required to obtain the eTA in advance of the flight destined for Canada. For this purpose, PRs are not really visa-exempt travelers regardless of their possession of a visa-exempt passport: they are PRs. The question is whether or not a Canadian PR in possession of a visa-exempt passport will be able obtain the eTA authorization for travel using that passport.
The answer to that likely depends on whether or not they lie. If they include their UCI, as required by the form, they will be rejected. I've tried it.
Reminder: once a visa-exempt traveler obtains the eTA authorization, that authorization remains valid for a period of . . . I forget, I think it is five years . . . or until the passport expires. The airline has little or no discretion. Travelers with visa-exempt passports (except U.S. citizens and a few others) will have to go through the eTA process in order to have their passport cleared for boarding a flight destined to Canada.
It is indeed 5 years. The "few others" is why they use the phrase may, instead of "must". If you have a diplomatic passport, the rules get a little different even if you are a Permanent Resident.
As I noted, the oft reported practice of Canadian PRs boarding a flight for Canada by displaying a visa-exempt passport (without displaying proof of PR status) will at least partially come to an end under the eTA program. That is because all visa-exempt travelers (U.S. and few others excepted) will have to have their passports cleared through the eTA program. So there will be no just walking up to the gate, presenting a visa-exempt passport, and thereby being allowed to board a flight for Canada.
Yep.
In effect, to just walk to the gate and be allowed to board, the PR will need to display either a valid PR card or a PR Travel Document.
It will likely be required prior to check-in, similar to what they currently do for passports.
The key question: what will happen if a visa-exempt PR uses his or her passport to apply for the eTA?
Will the system be designed to screen for and identify visa-exempt passport holders who have Canadian PR status? That's the question.
It did when I tested it.
If the PR in Paris wants to book a flight to Toronto, will he be able to do so just using his visa-exempt passport?
No.
So far, all the CIC information regarding the program indicate that its purpose is other than to screen travelers for PR status. But will it anyway?
It's primary purpose is to screen for inadmissibility. It's part of the Harper changes that included getting entry records from the United States (which was done to help prevent Citizenship fraud), so it's hard to say if nailing PRs that violate their ROs was a secondary purpose, or just a side effect. There are a number of people who obtained Citizenship despite not living in Canada for any length of time, and the government did want to fight that.
The regs are surprisingly clear. CIC is not, but the carriers have to follow the law, and they do, too.
What we do know is that if a PR with a visa-exempt passport makes the eTA application and obtains the eTA authorization, that passport will be good for boarding a flight to Canada for (I think it is five years . . . or until the passport expires). That is, the traveler only needs to go through the eTA once and is then good for . . . five years I think.
Yep. The system is not perfect, but there will be a record, if anyone ever decides to look.
Thus, in the near future some PR with a visa-exempt passport is bound to try this and find out . . . and sooner or later someone trying this will report his or her experience in one of the forums (this one seems the busiest these days).
I already did. Now we just need a few more data points, and someone to try lying (as they inevitably will).
Of course, going forward, even if initially the eTA system allows a PR to obtain the eTA using his visa-exempt passport, that is no guarantee that updates to the system will not suddenly, sometime in the future, screen and identify PRs and preclude eTA for PRs.
Yep. That's a big red flag to keep over your head the rest of your life. Technically, if they wanted to, it could be used to strip someone of Citizenship (even pre C-51). If your PR status was the result of fraud, and your Citizenship was a result of your PR status, you are gambling with something very important.
I would note that the electronic databases have grown considerably more sophisticated in the last several years and that it is very easy for the system to identify CIC clients (including PRs of course) based on passport identification (passport number for example) . . . so it would be very easy for the eTA system to in fact identify any visa-exempt passport as belonging to a PR . . . the question is whether CBSA/CIC will include this in the program's screening functions. (Actually, the question is more in the vein of when will this be included?)
If the passport number itself matches, it's easy. If the person has multiple passports, it likely will not be automated (due to the possibility of false positives), but it will show up in an examination.
This is what we see in criminal databases right now. If you travel across the border, you have to be specifically flagged to be automatically stopped. If you get pulled into secondary, they look by name and approximate birthday, and if anything shows up they have to figure out if it was you or not. This is why people with DUIs can enter Canada repeatedly, yet they end up in secondary for something and then end up banned for being criminally inadmissable.
