eTA at the border

[Canada_soon2014]

Hi All,

I am aiming to return to Canada forever via US border with Family

1#Me and my mrs PR, RO breached, but visa exempt passport.
2#Child no PR, but visa exempt passport.

I heard eTA is going to be mandatory from 29 September, If I cross land border after this date will I be required an eTA? because this will jeopardize all our hopes of going back.

 

[Leon]

There's no eTA for the land border, just for flying in.

 

[Rob_TO]

Hi All,

I am aiming to return to Canada forever via US border with Family

1#Me and my mrs PR, RO breached, but visa exempt passport.
2#Child no PR, but visa exempt passport.

I heard eTA is going to be mandatory from 29 September, If I cross land border after this date will I be required an eTA? because this will jeopardize all our hopes of going back.

As mentioned you can try to cross into Canada without an eTA at a land border.

Since you are in violation of the RO, there is a risk you will be reported and eventually have your PRs revoked.

 

[Bs65]

And I guess correct me if wrong the child will only get a limited visitor entry stamp. Plus if you get pulled for a secondary inspection CBSA may have issues with your status. Also I assume you will be applying for PR for the child at which point my guess would be that your RO status will come to light.

 

[Rob_TO]

Also I assume you will be applying for PR for the child at which point my guess would be that your RO status will come to light.

Right, they can't apply for PR for the child until they are back in compliance with the RO. To do so while not in compliance, will trigger a residency investigation and most likely end up with their own PR status revoked.

Child must extend visitor status continually until parents are back in compliance with RO, submit the PR app to sponsor child, and it's approved. Could be a long time during which child must stay as a visitor only.

 

[Bs65]

Basically assuming get back into Canada will need to stay in the country for 2 years and not leave at all and if you do apply for PR for the child be prepared to explain not having met RO previously, you may be lucky and have no problems you may not.

 

[Canada_soon2014]

Thank you very much everyone

Can you please confirm,

1- How I can extend visitor status of my child, when he has no visa on the passport, he is just coming into Canada on visa exempt passport, extending visitor status will it trigger any background investigation?

2- At the border shall I display my PR card? or just present my visa exempt passport and pretend to be a visitor?

3- If I present my PR without even them asking, it might give positive impression but the IO will think how come parents are PR but child is not

 

[Canada_soon2014]

Can someone please advise?

 

[Rob_TO]

1- How I can extend visitor status of my child, when he has no visa on the passport, he is just coming into Canada on visa exempt passport, extending visitor status will it trigger any background investigation?

Usually a visa exempt traveler gets 6 months status upon entry to Canada, or can get longer if you request a visitor record at the border. When status is set to expire, you just apply online and pay $100 to extend it. You will need to do this each time status is set to expire, for probably around 3 years. Hopefully the extensions are granted, as there may be complications if CIC decides to deny any of the extensions. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/extend-stay.asp

I don't think any RO investigation would be triggered on you in applying for status extension for your child.

2- At the border shall I display my PR card? or just present my visa exempt passport and pretend to be a visitor?

3- If I present my PR without even them asking, it might give positive impression but the IO will think how come parents are PR but child is not

It's really up to you. Just be aware that if you go to secondary inspection, CBSA will discover you're a PR anyways.

 

[Bs65]

Usually a visa exempt traveler gets 6 months status upon entry to Canada, or can get longer if you request a visitor record at the border. When status is set to expire, you just apply online and pay $100 to extend it. You will need to do this each time status is set to expire, for probably around 3 years. Hopefully the extensions are granted, as there may be complications if CIC decides to deny any of the extensions. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/extend-stay.asp

I don't think any RO investigation would be triggered on you in applying for status extension for your child.

It's really up to you. Just be aware that if you go to secondary inspection, CBSA will discover you're a PR anyways.

All above true but if raising the issue at the border for a visitor entry longer than 6 months for the child then possible secondary inspection could be the result and will have to come clean on PR status.

In the past people with expired PR cards or lack of meeting RO have entered Canada multiple times on visa-exempt passports maybe not realising they were still PR in the system for years as PR does not automatically get withdrawn and had no issues. Turning up at the border with a lifetime collection of possessions and household goods though might be an issue though as opposed to appearing like a tourist , ultimately though have to answer any questions truthfully if asked, no misrepresentation.

 

[Canada_soon2014]

Thanks Loen, Rob_TO, Bs65 really appreciate your comments.

So just to summaries:- I will not carry my 'valied' PR cards during travel, as I am entering as visitor, will just show visa exempt passports to the IO. In case they ask anything about PR I will admit honestly and answer the question accordingly.

Do I have to fill any landing card, when crossing land border, in the landing card shall I chose option visitor?

 

[dpenabill]

Thanks Loen, Rob_TO, Bs65 really appreciate your comments.

So just to summaries:- I will not carry my 'valied' PR cards during travel, as I am entering as visitor, will just show visa exempt passports to the IO. In case they ask anything about PR I will admit honestly and answer the question accordingly.

Do I have to fill any landing card, when crossing land border, in the landing card shall I chose option visitor?

To be clear, a PR cannot legally enter Canada as a Foreign National visitor.

Whether presenting a visa-exempt passport at the PoE results in being waived into Canada, as if a FN visitor, is largely a matter of chance but also dependent on a range of factors, not the least of which is the impression the PIL officer has and whether there is a referral to secondary.

If referred to Secondary, CBSA will most likely identify you as a Canadian, a Canadian PR. But there is also a significant chance that the PIL officer (at the booth) will recognize you are a PR anyway.

Your identity is connected to your client identification in the CBSA and IRCC systems, and of course your identity is connected to your passport. Odds are a screening officer can readily recognize you are a PR. The PIL officer might not be concerned and still waive you into Canada. Or the PIL might refer you to Secondary. In Secondary they will almost certainly recognize you are a PR, or at the least ask you questions which if answered truthfully will reveal you are a PR or lead to their otherwise discovering you are a PR.

As others noted, it is important to make NO misrepresentations to border officials. There have been recent cases in which returning PRs have been criminally charged and convicted, in addition to the consequences under IRPA, for making misrepresentations to border officials.

These days it is very difficult to forecast how the PoE interaction is likely to go down. Over the last many years CBSA and IRCC have increasingly enhanced practices and technologies toward more thorough screening of travelers coming into Canada. A lot may depend on what passport you carry, not just that it is visa-exempt. Or your travel history. Or, as noted, the general impression you make at the border.

My sense is that CBSA and IRCC are well aware, now, that many PRs in breach of the PR RO utilize the U.S. as a pathway for returning to Canada with the hope of slipping back into the country without being reported (there was specific reference to this in a very recent PR RO case on appeal); to what extent this has led to more stringent efforts to interdict PRs, is not clear, is impossible to know. Overall, however, it does seem clear that this approach does not have the same odds of success as it did in the not-so-distant past. Which is to say, better to be prepared for the alternatives.

 

[princessofdiamonds]

Hey - do you have any links to these cases of people being convicted and charged, or any evidence as such? Just so I can have a look through and read about those cases ?

Thanks

To be clear, a PR cannot legally enter Canada as a Foreign National visitor.

Whether presenting a visa-exempt passport at the PoE results in being waived into Canada, as if a FN visitor, is largely a matter of chance but also dependent on a range of factors, not the least of which is the impression the PIL officer has and whether there is a referral to secondary.

If referred to Secondary, CBSA will most likely identify you as a Canadian, a Canadian PR. But there is also a significant chance that the PIL officer (at the booth) will recognize you are a PR anyway.

Your identity is connected to your client identification in the CBSA and IRCC systems, and of course your identity is connected to your passport. Odds are a screening officer can readily recognize you are a PR. The PIL officer might not be concerned and still waive you into Canada. Or the PIL might refer you to Secondary. In Secondary they will almost certainly recognize you are a PR, or at the least ask you questions which if answered truthfully will reveal you are a PR or lead to their otherwise discovering you are a PR.

As others noted, it is important to make NO misrepresentations to border officials. There have been recent cases in which returning PRs have been criminally charged and convicted, in addition to the consequences under IRPA, for making misrepresentations to border officials.

These days it is very difficult to forecast how the PoE interaction is likely to go down. Over the last many years CBSA and IRCC have increasingly enhanced practices and technologies toward more thorough screening of travelers coming into Canada. A lot may depend on what passport you carry, not just that it is visa-exempt. Or your travel history. Or, as noted, the general impression you make at the border.

My sense is that CBSA and IRCC are well aware, now, that many PRs in breach of the PR RO utilize the U.S. as a pathway for returning to Canada with the hope of slipping back into the country without being reported (there was specific reference to this in a very recent PR RO case on appeal); to what extent this has led to more stringent efforts to interdict PRs, is not clear, is impossible to know. Overall, however, it does seem clear that this approach does not have the same odds of success as it did in the not-so-distant past. Which is to say, better to be prepared for the alternatives.

 

[dpenabill]

Hey - do you have any links to these cases of people being convicted and charged, or any evidence as such? Just so I can have a look through and read about those cases ?

Thanks

I do not have the names, cites, or links handy for many of these cases, and it is hard to remember which one in particular I was referencing. Note, for example, that a search using the terms "citizenship" and "misrepresentation" at http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/ nets, literally, thousands of hits. (While I do a fair amount of research at the CanLII site, where it is easy to search both IAD and Federal Court decisions, week-to-week I tend to read all Federal Court decisions regarding either citizenship applications or PR admissibility issues, as published at the Federal Court site: http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/fc-cf/en/0/ann.do

My sense of "recent" sometimes goes back more than I recall; I have been reading most new decisions published regularly for many years now and time flies.

Among the cases I can readily recall, there is the Nagui Boutros Aziz GHALI case, see http://canlii.ca/t/gm0jp
Ghali was prosecuted and convicted (pled guilty) for misrepresentations of "facts regarding the length of his trips abroad" (including "providing false dates for his departure from Canada") and was fined $40,000. My understanding, as best I can discern, is that the criminal charges arose from the same incident where Ghali was issued a Removal Order upon arrival at a PoE, even though he was within the first five years of obtaining PR and, I think, still in possession of a valid PR card (this happened about three months short of the fifth year anniversary of his landing as a PR).

Aggravating factors included he had also applied for citizenship and, apparently (but not specifically so stated) made similar misrepresentations in the application. And that he had gone so far as to put fake Egyptian stamps in his passport to document dates of travel.


A more or less typical PR RO case involving misrepresentation at a PoE, which however is not so recent as I recalled (it was published in 2014), is the Mirvat OSMAN case, see http://canlii.ca/t/gks6j

See paragraph 12:
"At the port of entry, in November 2013, the appellant committed numerous misrepresentations. These are evidenced at page 84 of the Appeal Record. She misstated the date of her last physical presence in Canada claiming to the officer that she had spent two years in Canada which was a deliberate misrepresentation. Second of all, she gave as her home address an address on Lisgar Avenue in Ottawa which is an address where she never resided. She also claimed not to have an additional passport and persisted in her misrepresentation until the officer advised that he would search her luggage. The tribunal concludes that it is clear that the appellant’s misrepresentation was intentional and this is a very negative factor in this appeal."

Note: both of these occurred before changes increasing penalties for such misrepresentation were made under the Harper government. Consequences now are more severe than they were for either of these individuals.

 

[princessofdiamonds]

Hmm, so basically if I change my mind and stay, and then apply for my PR card,2 years down the line i'll be charged with misrepresentation? :/

I do not have the names, cites, or links handy for many of these cases, and it is hard to remember which one in particular I was referencing. Note, for example, that a search using the terms "citizenship" and "misrepresentation" at http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/ nets, literally, thousands of hits. (While I do a fair amount of research at the CanLII site, where it is easy to search both IAD and Federal Court decisions, week-to-week I tend to read all Federal Court decisions regarding either citizenship applications or PR admissibility issues, as published at the Federal Court site: http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/fc-cf/en/0/ann.do

My sense of "recent" sometimes goes back more than I recall; I have been reading most new decisions published regularly for many years now and time flies.

Among the cases I can readily recall, there is the Nagui Boutros Aziz GHALI case, see http://canlii.ca/t/gm0jp
Ghali was prosecuted and convicted (pled guilty) for misrepresentations of "facts regarding the length of his trips abroad" (including "providing false dates for his departure from Canada") and was fined $40,000. My understanding, as best I can discern, is that the criminal charges arose from the same incident where Ghali was issued a Removal Order upon arrival at a PoE, even though he was within the first five years of obtaining PR and, I think, still in possession of a valid PR card (this happened about three months short of the fifth year anniversary of his landing as a PR).

Aggravating factors included he had also applied for citizenship and, apparently (but not specifically so stated) made similar misrepresentations in the application. And that he had gone so far as to put fake Egyptian stamps in his passport to document dates of travel.


A more or less typical PR RO case involving misrepresentation at a PoE, which however is not so recent as I recalled (it was published in 2014), is the Mirvat OSMAN case, see http://canlii.ca/t/gks6j

See paragraph 12:
"At the port of entry, in November 2013, the appellant committed numerous misrepresentations. These are evidenced at page 84 of the Appeal Record. She misstated the date of her last physical presence in Canada claiming to the officer that she had spent two years in Canada which was a deliberate misrepresentation. Second of all, she gave as her home address an address on Lisgar Avenue in Ottawa which is an address where she never resided. She also claimed not to have an additional passport and persisted in her misrepresentation until the officer advised that he would search her luggage. The tribunal concludes that it is clear that the appellant’s misrepresentation was intentional and this is a very negative factor in this appeal."

Note: both of these occurred before changes increasing penalties for such misrepresentation were made under the Harper government. Consequences now are more severe than they were for either of these individuals.