ESL Education

[MShafiq]

Hi guys,

It's my first time participating here but I have been reading your very helpful answers for a long time.

I received an invitation to apply for PR through the Canadian Experience Class and I'm hesitant whether I should apply as I'm not sure if my ESL diplomas/certificates would be accepted.

1. I entered my Canadian ESL Education in my profile to the best of my ability:
Field of study: English or Frensh as a second Language
Complete/full academic years: 1
Full-time/part-time study: Full-time study
Standing at the end of study period: Certificate or diploma or degree awarded*
and other info like location and DLI number

* I did receive a diploma for my study and I believe I was given 25 points for this (50 for may bachelor and this diploma). Does this sound right?
Note that my ESL school was Kaplan International

2. I did the exact same thing for my wife (included in the application). She received certificates for each course she completed at the Faculty of Extension - University of Alberta. Upon the completion of these ESL courses, she satisfied the English language proficiency requirement for undergraduate admission to the UofA. We were given 6 points for this.

My previous PR application was cancelled as incomplete as they didn't accept my wife's ESL Education (in that application, I only provided her transcript but not her certificates)

Do you think I should accept the invitation and apply again? The only difference now would be her certificates.


Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Wolfpmd3]

No, you cannot claim points for ESL education. This education is only useful for you to learn the language and then get points based on your knowledge of it (CELPIP and IELTS).

Kaplan International is not a DLI, therefore education you have pursued there won't help you. And again, it is ESL so this does not count towards EE points for education. The fact that you got a piece of paper (diploma or certificate) does not mean that studying English gives you a Certificate or Diploma (in the sense that IRCC sees it)

That's is why they rejected your previous application, they will not accept ESL education, what did they say when they rejected your application the previous time?

Same as you cannot apply for an PGWP after a ESL course, this won't help you get any points towards EE

 

[scylla]

Hi guys,

It's my first time participating here but I have been reading your very helpful answers for a long time.

I received an invitation to apply for PR through the Canadian Experience Class and I'm hesitant whether I should apply as I'm not sure if my ESL diplomas/certificates would be accepted.

1. I entered my Canadian ESL Education in my profile to the best of my ability:
Field of study: English or Frensh as a second Language
Complete/full academic years: 1
Full-time/part-time study: Full-time study
Standing at the end of study period: Certificate or diploma or degree awarded*
and other info like location and DLI number

* I did receive a diploma for my study and I believe I was given 25 points for this (50 for may bachelor and this diploma). Does this sound right?
Note that my ESL school was Kaplan International

2. I did the exact same thing for my wife (included in the application). She received certificates for each course she completed at the Faculty of Extension - University of Alberta. Upon the completion of these ESL courses, she satisfied the English language proficiency requirement for undergraduate admission to the UofA. We were given 6 points for this.

My previous PR application was cancelled as incomplete as they didn't accept my wife's ESL Education (in that application, I only provided her transcript but not her certificates)

Do you think I should accept the invitation and apply again? The only difference now would be her certificates.


Any help would be appreciated.

Agreed with the above advice. You cannot claim points for ESL.

 

[MShafiq]

No, you cannot claim points for ESL education. This education is only useful for you to learn the language and then get points based on your knowledge of it (CELPIP and IELTS).

Kaplan International is not a DLI, therefore education you have pursued there won't help you. And again, it is ESL so this does not count towards EE points for education. The fact that you got a piece of paper (diploma or certificate) does not mean that studying English gives you a Certificate or Diploma (in the sense that IRCC sees it)

That's is why they rejected your previous application, they will not accept ESL education, what did they say when they rejected your application the previous time?

Same as you cannot apply for an PGWP after a ESL course, this won't help you get any points towards EE

That's my concern. I filled in the education history as described above, selected "English or French as a Second Language" for the field of study and put everything else correctly. yet, the system gave me points for it.

When I called IRCC to further investigate why they cancelled my application, they said because I provided a transcript not a diploma/certificate, and they didn't say that I can't claim points for ESL education.

Here is what was written in rejection letter:

Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC) has reviewed your application for permanent residence. We have determined that your application does not meet the requirements of a complete application as described in sections 10 and 12.01 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations. Your application is rejected for being incomplete.

Specifically, your application does not include the following elements:
- Education Credentials:
- The Canadian education credentials provided for your spouse are not acceptable.

Note: A full review of your application was not performed. There may be other elements, not identified above, which may also be missing or incomplete.

I agree, this diploma is just a piece of paper but it is named diploma and that is what I entered in my education history.

 

[MShafiq]

No, you cannot claim points for ESL education. This education is only useful for you to learn the language and then get points based on your knowledge of it (CELPIP and IELTS).

Kaplan International is not a DLI, therefore education you have pursued there won't help you. And again, it is ESL so this does not count towards EE points for education. The fact that you got a piece of paper (diploma or certificate) does not mean that studying English gives you a Certificate or Diploma (in the sense that IRCC sees it)

That's is why they rejected your previous application, they will not accept ESL education, what did they say when they rejected your application the previous time?

Same as you cannot apply for an PGWP after a ESL course, this won't help you get any points towards EE

I'm reading other posts and I don't see what's wrong with the information I entered in my education history.
Again, here is what I entered:
Field of study: English or Frensh as a second Language
Complete/full academic years: 1
Full-time/part-time study: Full-time study
Standing at the end of study period: Certificate or diploma or degree awarded
Level of education: one-yer program at a university, college, trade or technical school or other institue
Was this degree, diploma or certificate:

• from a public post-secondary school, such as a college, trade/technical school, university or CEGEP (in Quebec)
• from a private post-secondary school that operates under the same rules as public schools
• a diplôme d'études professionnelles (DEP) or an attestation de spécialisation professionnelle (ASP) earned through a qualifying study program of at least 900 hours from a private school in Quebec, or
• a Bachelor's, Master's or Doctorate degree from a Canadian private school that can legally award degrees under provincial law. (The student must have been enrolled in a study program that led to a degree as set out by the province.)

Yes
Was more than half the study program English or French as a second language courses? Yes
and other info like location and DLI number

Yet, the system awarded me points based on these answers. BTW, there is a DLI# for Kaplan International and it is O19394941182.

 

[MShafiq]

I just called IRCC.

This is so confusing, I read all the information I entered in my EE profile and told her that we have a certificate for my wife's ESL and she said it should be accepted. She even gave me her name and agent number for reference and to include in an explanation letter if needed.

This seems too good to be true. I still don't have a definite answer to my question:
Can I claim points for ESL education?

If anyone tried that before and it was approved/declined, please let me know. This should be a common question but I can't find an answer to it

 

[scylla]

Was this degree, diploma or certificate:

• from a public post-secondary school, such as a college, trade/technical school, university or CEGEP (in Quebec)
• from a private post-secondary school that operates under the same rules as public schools
• a diplôme d'études professionnelles (DEP) or an attestation de spécialisation professionnelle (ASP) earned through a qualifying study program of at least 900 hours from a private school in Quebec, or
• a Bachelor's, Master's or Doctorate degree from a Canadian private school that can legally award degrees under provincial law. (The student must have been enrolled in a study program that led to a degree as set out by the province.)

Yes

You've answered this question incorrectly. The answer to the above question is "no". Kaplan doesn't operate under the same rules as a public school.

 

[MShafiq]

You've answered this question incorrectly. The answer to the above question is "no". Kaplan doesn't operate under the same rules as a public school.

Ok. Thanks for the correction.

But the answer is yes for my wife's ESL (UAlberta - Faculty of Extension)?

 

[Wolfpmd3]

Ok. Thanks for the correction.

But the answer is yes for my wife's ESL (UAlberta - Faculty of Extension)?

But ESL programs are cannot be counted as Education towards Express Entry.

It is for the same reason that after studying English or French you cannot obtain a PGWP. The certificate for studying English is not the same as what IRCC talks about when they say a Diploma or Certificate.

I looked up Kaplan International on it does not exist in the list of DLIs. Most Universities and colleges offer language courses but that does not mean that studying ESL or FSL is any education you can use for these purposes.

Yes and what "Scylla" says is true, I don't think you have answered this correctly.

The only way an ESL course will help you claim points is by preparing you better to get a higher score in the Language Exam.

 

[Muhammad Shahrukh]

@MShafiq do you successfully claim points for ESL certificate and is your pr approved ?

 

[Muhammad Shahrukh]

But ESL programs are cannot be counted as Education towards Express Entry.

It is for the same reason that after studying English or French you cannot obtain a PGWP. The certificate for studying English is not the same as what IRCC talks about when they say a Diploma or Certificate.

I looked up Kaplan International on it does not exist in the list of DLIs. Most Universities and colleges offer language courses but that does not mean that studying ESL or FSL is any education you can use for these purposes.

Yes and what "Scylla" says is true, I don't think you have answered this correctly.

The only way an ESL course will help you claim points is by preparing you better to get a higher score in the Language Exam.

If I did ESL for one year from Seneca which is listed in DLI. Can I claim points for that?

 

[scylla]

If I did ESL for one year from Seneca which is listed in DLI. Can I claim points for that?

No, you can't.

 

[Wolfpmd3]

If I did ESL for one year from Seneca which is listed in DLI. Can I claim points for that?

No one has ever claimed points towards EE for having studied English. YOU CAN'T.

 

[MShafiq]

@MShafiq do you successfully claim points for ESL certificate and is your pr approved ?

I honestly don't know. It seems like I passed eligibility but application is not finalized yet. I was above the cutoff by around 50 points. If they had declined my ESL points, I would still be above the cutoff and (I think) wouldn't know they didn't accept it.

However, I did call CIC and asked about this, the rep asked someone else too and said as long as you answer the questions correctly (which I did) and the system gave you points for it, you should be eligible for these points.

This question has been bothering me and I still don't have an answer to it. Members here say you can't and if you answer all the application questions correctly, the system gives you points for it.

Hope this helps

 

[kisiro191]

I honestly don't know. It seems like I passed eligibility but application is not finalized yet. I was above the cutoff by around 50 points. If they had declined my ESL points, I would still be above the cutoff and (I think) wouldn't know they didn't accept it.

However, I did call CIC and asked about this, the rep asked someone else too and said as long as you answer the questions correctly (which I did) and the system gave you points for it, you should be eligible for these points.

This question has been bothering me and I still don't have an answer to it. Members here say you can't and if you answer all the application questions correctly, the system gives you points for it.

Hope this helps

It's clearly a NO. ESL does not count. If you would like to proceed regardless the advice ppl have given, it's up to you.