EMPLOYER NOT WANTING TO PROVIDE PROOF OF WORK

[Brandy]

Hello,

please note that I resigned from my job due to the manager given me a tough time as a foreign worker and being hard on me. Once I left, I requested a month later for proof of employment in the organization from the HR Department and I got a reply that states " We do not provide proof of employment according to Canadian law. Is this accurate or are they just being wicked?

Johnny 31, please note that I got a new reference letter for the company A under NOC 1241 to help support my new application, what skill type does this fall under? I worked there for 16 months. However, I changed job and went to Company B where I resigned from and they are the ones not willing to provide any letter.

Hey All, Note that I have a reference letter from Company A where I worked April, 2011 to July 2012 and Company B I worked July, 2012 to Dec 2012. Company B is the one refusing to provide me with a reference letter with the job description.
Thanks a lot.

 

[Johnny31]

Hello,

please note that I resigned from my job due to the manager given me a tough time as a foreign worker and being hard on me. Once I left, I requested a month later for proof of employment in the organization from the HR Department and I got a reply that states " We do not provide proof of employment according to Canadian law. Is this accurate or are they just being wicked?

Thanks a lot.

Didn't they give you a letter the first time you applied when your case was refused ? how come they won't write you another letter?

 

[CEC2013]

Brandy,

Unfortunately, based on a quick search, this is what I came across on a provincial government website.

"The Employment Standards Act does not require you to provide a job description" (let alone a letter of reference containing the description). "It is a good idea to give any new employee information about their job and what duties they are expected to perform. This way, if any dispute arises about performance of duties you will have proof that the employee knows what their duties were."

http://www.labour.gov.bc.ca/esb/employers/faq.htm

This is what I found published by one labor law firm:

"Though the law does not require an employer to use or have a job description, employers should consider drafting one as job descriptions do serve as useful tools in the recruitment process. The job description should be sufficiently broad to give an employer the ability to make changes to job duties and tasks as needed in the future without fear of a constructive dismissal claim."

http://www.abrahamlaw.ca/freelegalinformation/employmentlaw/recruitment/fillingaposition

Based on all I have read and all the discussions on this forum, the employer is not obligated to provide you with a reference that includes a job description. My personal experience was that I almost had to beg for it. And it took over a month to even agree on the format. I would say its up to the employer whether they want to play ball. From feedback I was given by my employer - they were concerned with multiple variables: affect on non-binding job description I was given, ensuring that this is not a support letter, standard of organization, included content (which had to be screened by numerous departments), purpose, certification, approval...etc.

 

[jes_ON]

please note that I resigned from my job due to the manager given me a tough time as a foreign worker and being hard on me. Once I left, I requested a month later for proof of employment in the organization from the HR Department and I got a reply that states " We do not provide proof of employment according to Canadian law. Is this accurate or are they just being wicked?

They are required BY LAW to provide a record of employment (ROE) to the Canada Revenue Agency. They are also required to give you a copy within 5 days of ending employment, unless they submit the ROE electronically to the CRA. In that case, you can download the ROE from the CRA website.

http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/ei/employers/roew.shtml

An ROE is not a substitute for a Letter of Reference. But if you cannot get a letter of reference and choose to submit an explanation, you can include the ROE as one piece of evidence. It includes your occupation, dates worked, hours worked, wages paid, etc. Employer contact info. Of course it does not include job duties, so you will have to find another piece of evidence to support that.

 

[InfoSeeker12]

Brandy,

Just as Johnny mentioned, when you first joined the firm, didn't they give you the welcome pack? Or the offer letter? Those documents usually have the standard job duties assigned for the position you are being hired for. Ofcourse, if you must be doing other tasks too, but it cannot be verified now since your employer is being a bad ass.

But can you somehow get those documents? Are you in touch with your work mates, specially ones who were in the same position, or hired recently on that position. YOu can request them to scan and send their job descriptions on the official letter head. You can send that to CiC.

Your employer will not be able to deny that. As Jes mentioned, you can get your ROE which will be a solid proof that you were working for that firm, with dates, name and your position too, perhaps.

But in the CEC application, your job duties are really important. Try to get it printed somehow on the companies letter head. If you know someone in the company they can do it for you. It doesnt need to be signed or anything. You can show that document as part of the welcome pack (not every page is signed in the welcome pack).

All the best.

 

[sashali78]

Quote "
"The Employment Standards Act does not require you to provide a job description" (let alone a letter of reference containing the description). "It is a good idea to give any new employee information about their job and what duties they are expected to perform. This way, if any dispute arises about performance of duties you will have proof that the employee knows what their duties were."

http://www.labour.gov.bc.ca/esb/employers/faq.htm

This is what I found published by one labor law firm:

"Though the law does not require an employer to use or have a job description, employers should consider drafting one as job descriptions do serve as useful tools in the recruitment process. The job description should be sufficiently broad to give an employer the ability to make changes to job duties and tasks as needed in the future without fear of a constructive dismissal claim."

http://www.abrahamlaw.ca/freelegalinformation/employmentlaw/recruitment/fillingaposition
"



This is just another proof that the current CIC's mandatory requirements for detailed reference letter are in fact illegal...

 

[CEC2013]

A response I recieved from HRSDC:

"In addition, please note that the final decision for selecting the most appropriate National Occupational Classification (NOC) code is each individual's responsibility as you know your education, skills and abilities better than anyone else. However, the ultimate decision remains the responsibility of Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) as they are the only ones who have the authority to determine if the information provided meets their criteria."

My take on this is that CIC would argue inability to screen for eligibility, without proof of job description, which can only be obtained from the employer, as they would provide the most accurate information. Until each and every employer goes through HRSDC and they are given the authority to determine the NOC (to be further provided to CIC for application consideration), this will rest with CIC.

While I would stand with you sashali, since I had issues obtaining the letter as well, I cannot side with the claim that its illegal. If the ESA law stated that the employer was not allowed to provide such letters, which it does not (does not require or prohibit), then CIC would not be in the position to demand such documents. The terms are both broad and quite specific - where they lack constraint by one, the other picks up. Just my two cents there...

 

[sashali78]

A response I recieved from HRSDC:

"In addition, please note that the final decision for selecting the most appropriate National Occupational Classification (NOC) code is each individual's responsibility as you know your education, skills and abilities better than anyone else. However, the ultimate decision remains the responsibility of Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) as they are the only ones who have the authority to determine if the information provided meets their criteria."

My take on this is that CIC would argue inability to screen for eligibility, without proof of job description, which can only be obtained from the employer, as they would provide the most accurate information. Until each and every employer goes through HRSDC and they are given the authority to determine the NOC (to be further provided to CIC for application consideration), this will rest with CIC.

While I would stand with you sashali, since I had issues obtaining the letter as well, I cannot side with the claim that its illegal. If the ESA law stated that the employer was not allowed to provide such letters, which it does not (does not require or prohibit), then CIC would not be in the position to demand such documents. The terms are both broad and quite specific - where they lack constraint by one, the other picks up. Just my two cents there...

By the language of law - I agree with you. It is really a "catch 22". I don't know what need to be done here, a petition, lawsuit or something else...thats why I opened the thread to discuss it:
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/rejections-due-to-no-duties-on-ref-letter-vo-tracking-mp-pressure-group-t130943.0.html

So far, I just have one data entry besides mine in the provided excel, so unless public response will be picking up, the current situation will prevail.

 

[jsm0085]

Really the sensible thing to do would be to contact a lawyer and get their view on it.

I use and would highly recommend Chantal Desloges but their are plenty of others you could try also!

Since it's such a big issue and since it obviously impacts your future, it's probably worth seeking some proper legal advice. CIC have their reasons for requesting the documentation. While a lot of you end up discussing it on the forms, you are the minority. Most Canadian companies have no issue providing this kind of documentation!

I suggest one of you get an apt to see a lawyer, get some advice and report back to the others!

 

[Johnny31]

Brandy,

Just as Johnny mentioned, when you first joined the firm, didn't they give you the welcome pack? Or the offer letter? Those documents usually have the standard job duties assigned for the position you are being hired for. Ofcourse, if you must be doing other tasks too, but it cannot be verified now since your employer is being a bad ass.

But can you somehow get those documents? Are you in touch with your work mates, specially ones who were in the same position, or hired recently on that position. YOu can request them to scan and send their job descriptions on the official letter head. You can send that to CiC.

Your employer will not be able to deny that. As Jes mentioned, you can get your ROE which will be a solid proof that you were working for that firm, with dates, name and your position too, perhaps.

But in the CEC application, your job duties are really important. Try to get it printed somehow on the companies letter head. If you know someone in the company they can do it for you. It doesnt need to be signed or anything. You can show that document as part of the welcome pack (not every page is signed in the welcome pack).

All the best.

What I was trying to say is that she was refused once already by CIC and her employer was able to give her work reference letter during her first application. I was wondering why they wouldn't provide her a letter this time.

 

[Brandy]

Johnny 31, please note that I got a new reference letter for the company A under NOC 1241 to help support my new application, what skill type does this fall under? I worked there for 16 months. However, I changed job and went to Company B where I resigned from and they are the ones not willing to provide any letter.

Hey All, Note that I have a reference letter from Company A where I worked April, 2011 to July 2012 and Company B I worked July, 2012 to Dec 2012. Company B is the one refusing to provide me with a reference letter with the job description.
Thanks a lot.

 

[Johnny31]

Johnny 31, please note that I got a new reference letter for the company A under NOC 1241 to help support my new application, what skill type does this fall under? I worked there for 16 months. However, I changed job and went to Company B where I resigned from and they are the ones not willing to provide any letter.

Hey All, Note that I have a reference letter from Company A where I worked April, 2011 to July 2012 and Company B I worked July, 2012 to Dec 2012. Company B is the one refusing to provide me with a reference letter with the job description.
Thanks a lot.

I see, at least you have the job letter that will help you qualify for CEC. If you can't get a letter from your second job, write a letter explaining your situation and provide all the documents you can to show that you did work there (pay stubs, contract...etc)

 

[jes_ON]

I see, at least you have the job letter that will help you qualify for CEC. If you can't get a letter from your second job, write a letter explaining your situation and provide all the documents you can to show that you did work there (pay stubs, contract...etc)

Agreed, along with ROE and (if you have it) written documentation of their refusal to provide the letter (e.g. email printout).