Email from CIC that PR card renewal needs secondary review
- Thread starter Pual Newman
- Start date
@canuck_in_uk @canuck78 @scylla @legalfalcon
Respected expert members, can you help me with this query please?
A PR wife has submitted a sponsorship application for her husband. Her PR card is expiring soon. She is falling short of 50 days to meet her RO if she applies for renewal on the expiry date. However, I have 2 questions related to this-
1) IRCC website says that a PR status is not lost until an inquiry is made/ adjudicator takes a decision/ PRTD application is refused due to RO.
Then in this case, if the PR wife simply chooses to stay and fulfill the RO and then apply for the PR card renewal then wouldn't it be okay? like the PR card expiry date is an irrelevant thing right? Also the 5 year period is going backward from the application date right? so if she looks back from the expiry date of her PR card, she is short of 50 days. But she could just wait for another 50 days and then apply for PR card renewal right?
2) I know that sponsorship eligibility needs to be met. So by being a PR who is currently inside Canada and has not applied for a PR card renewal, IS THIS IN ANY WAY TRIGGERING AN INVESTIGATION INTO RO of the SPONSOR? Isn't she a PR already and meets one of the requirements? As per IRPA , isn't she supposed to be just a PR ? Why would a sponsor's RO be in question when she has not applied for PR CARD RENEWAL anywhere inside Canada? Why/Why not?
3)Now if the sponsorship application ends up being refused due to sponsor's eligiblity not met, then how are things working out from this point onwards??
Please let me know if there is any confusion or clarity needed for my question here.
Respected expert members, can you help me with this query please?
A PR wife has submitted a sponsorship application for her husband. Her PR card is expiring soon. She is falling short of 50 days to meet her RO if she applies for renewal on the expiry date. However, I have 2 questions related to this-
1) IRCC website says that a PR status is not lost until an inquiry is made/ adjudicator takes a decision/ PRTD application is refused due to RO.
Then in this case, if the PR wife simply chooses to stay and fulfill the RO and then apply for the PR card renewal then wouldn't it be okay? like the PR card expiry date is an irrelevant thing right? Also the 5 year period is going backward from the application date right? so if she looks back from the expiry date of her PR card, she is short of 50 days. But she could just wait for another 50 days and then apply for PR card renewal right?
2) I know that sponsorship eligibility needs to be met. So by being a PR who is currently inside Canada and has not applied for a PR card renewal, IS THIS IN ANY WAY TRIGGERING AN INVESTIGATION INTO RO of the SPONSOR? Isn't she a PR already and meets one of the requirements? As per IRPA , isn't she supposed to be just a PR ? Why would a sponsor's RO be in question when she has not applied for PR CARD RENEWAL anywhere inside Canada? Why/Why not?
3)Now if the sponsorship application ends up being refused due to sponsor's eligiblity not met, then how are things working out from this point onwards??
Please let me know if there is any confusion or clarity needed for my question here.
She should not have submitted an application to sponsor her husband if she doesn't meet the residency obligation. She does not qualify to sponsor her husband if she doesn't meet RO. She should be expecting the sponsorship application to be refused - and then for IRCC to start the process to revoke her PR status.
When did she land and become a PR originally? This will determine how bad a situation she is in and if she should be expecting to lose her PR status.
Thank you @scylla
A correction- Her PR card expired in April 2019 and she submitted her sponsorship application in Nov 2018. so the landing might have been in April 2014 I believe.
But the question is, are sponsors required to make sure that their PR card validity is not expiring while the application is in progress?
And if it does, then they are supposed to make sure way in advance that their PR RO is met even if it expires so that the sponsorship application stays unaffected?
Iam having a hard time to believe that if a person is staying in Canada and has not made a request to renew the PR card, then on what basis is RO being decided by Immigration to determine that his status is to be revoked and sponsorship application being refused at the same time. ? Is it mentioned in the enforcement manuals? Pardon my ignorance.
Thanks for your time.
The PR card validity is irrelevant. A sponsor must ensure that they meet the Residency Obligation.
I'm not sure why you find it hard to believe. Yes, it is stated in IRCC manuals that a PR must meet the RO to sponsor. Sponsorship is a privilege, one that is NOT extended to PRs who failed to meet the basic requirements to maintain PR status.
So to go 5 years behind, an application date is needed right? So in this case , is the starting point for going backwards considered to be the 'sponsorship' application date or ' the pr card expiry date'? Can you please comment on this as well?
As I said, PR card expiry is irrelevant. If she did not meet the RO on the date she submitted the sponsorship app, she did not qualify as a sponsor and can expect refusal and revocation.
She really should withdraw the PR app ASAP.
legalfalcon
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1. Before the PR card is renewed IRCC will look into the fact whether the applicant meets the PR residency requirements before the PR card be issued. If IRCC decides that the RO are not met then you have 2 options based on where the decision was made:
a. The decision was made by a VO outside Canada: A RP who is outside Canada and a VO (outside Canada) finds that the PR did not meet the RO, the PR status may be lost. The applicant can then appeal the decision before the Immigration Appeal Division (IAD) in order to explain why the PR status should be restored. This is known as a residency obligation appeal (subsection 63(4) of the IRPA).
b. The applicant receives a removal order which inside Canada: if applicant receives a removal order inside Canada, then a removal order appeal needs to be filed.
You are not at either of these stages since a formal decision has not yet been made about your PR RO.
2. When you file a sponsorship application, the sponsor signs that the sponsor meets the sponsorship requirements, i.e. PR requirements, which includes RO as stipulated under section 28 of IRPA.
The VO when determining whether an applicant meets the RO of a PR, will consider when the PR card is expiring and if by then, assuming that the applicant stays continuously in Canada, will meet the threshold of at least 730 days in that five-year period.
If this is not met, then definitely the applicant does not meet the PR RO, and thus is ineligible to file a sponsorship application. However, since a determination has not yet been made, you will have to wait.
You should consider seeking legal advice, and a lawyer will be able to guide you, based on your circumstances.
This is a forum, and no matter how well versed people here may be, they are not an alternative to professional legal advice. Also, your exact circumstances, documents, and dates will have to be reviewed before you jump to any conclusions.
It sounds like you don't want to accept the advice given here - so probably best to hire a good immigration lawyer to assist you. Good luck.
NO NEED TO PANIC. Far from it. No need to rush to withdraw PR visa sponsored application.
(And, actually, if there is a RO compliance problem, at this stage withdrawing the sponsored PR application is NOT likely to avoid the consequences of that.)
I initially composed a thorough response to the first query PRIOR to more recent clarification of some key facts. While some of what I state in this post may depend on or is better explained in that post, no need to do the deep dive in that now. (Note: my sense is the situation is NOT anywhere near so dire as others suggest.)
A key distinction warrants emphasis upfront: A PR sponsoring a family class applicant for PR must be "eligible" to sponsor. There are several qualifying requirements in addition to merely having PR status. For example: Not been sponsored and not having sponsored someone else within a certain period of time. Not on certain social benefit programs. No domestic violence offences (even if they do not constitute serious criminality). Currently residing and present in Canada. So NO, "just a PR" is nowhere near enough to qualify to sponsor a family class PR applicant.
That said, having a valid PR card is NOT one of those qualifying requirements.
However, admissibility is a requirement (which includes being in compliance with the Residency Obligation). A PR who is not in compliance with the RO is inadmissible . . . even if they have not lost PR status.
In the meantime, I am NOT up-to-date in the procedures for sponsoring a spouse's PR, but I believe the procedure still involves screening the eligibility of the sponsor in two steps. First step is an IN Canada assessment of the sponsor's eligibility to sponsor. Second step is reviewing the sponsor's eligibility in the overseas visa office.
Given the time that has elapsed since the sponsorship application was submitted (nine months or so ago), my GUESS is that the first step, the IN Canada determination as to the sponsor's eligibility, that has been decided (or should have been by now) and the application is now with the overseas visa office. The visa office is primarily focused on the PR visa application itself BUT the sponsoring PR MUST continue to be eligible to sponsor and the visa office can and will review the sponsor's eligibility if the visa office perceives any indication there could be an issue as to the sponsor's eligibility.
We do not know for sure that every PR-sponsor application is examined for RO compliance. It can happen. It does happen. It is a bit of surprise it has not already happened given how far short she appears to have been at the time the sponsorship application was submitted.
Which invites a question: has the sponsorship application passed the IN Canada approval of the sponsor step and been transferred to the respective visa office?
OR has this individual received any notices, requests, or communications seeking further information or documentation as to Residency Obligation compliance?
If the sponsorship file has passed the IN Canada step, given how close she is to being in compliance with the RO now, SO LONG AS SHE IS LIVING and STAYING IN CANADA, she is probably OK.
Must admit, however, I have a nagging sense that the query here may have been triggered by her having received some notice or requests from IRCC regarding or related to RO compliance. If this is what is behind asking the questions now, this needs to be the focus of her attention. The PR card is NOT relevant to that discussion.
If not, if what triggered the query was merely about timing the PR card application, or a general wondering if she needs a valid PR card for the sponsorship application, probably no need to do anything now but WAIT. That includes waiting until she is in compliance with the RO before making the PR card application.
NOTE: for a PR who has been staying and living in Canada, and is now settled permanently IN Canada, being short of RO compliance by fifty days is NOT likely a serious problem. At this stage it would likely take IRCC fifty days to schedule a formal interview/examination regarding RO compliance, and by then she will be in compliance. PR status safe.
That is, unless IRCC is already taking steps to conduct a formal interview/examination. This is why it is important to distinguish whether the queries here were triggered by some IRCC actions or notices or such. If IRCC is already proceeding toward a formal interview or examination, and there is a prospect that will be scheduled sooner than she will be in compliance, that is a more pressing situation . . . and a situation that will NOT be resolved by withdrawing the sponsorship application.
In contrast, if she is merely worried about not having a valid PR card and is wondering about WHEN to make the PR card application, and she has NOT received any communication from IRCC related to or about her RO compliance, probably NO reason to worry.
And especially if there was in fact an IN Canada decision that she is an eligible sponsor, and the sponsorship application has been referred to the respective visa office (and, again, no communication from IRCC related to or about her RO compliance), especially then there should be little or NO reason to worry. Just wait longer to make the PR card application.
@scylla @legalfalcon
Please do not misunderstand my reaction. I am really happy to follow the advice or the points being discussed here. And thanks again, for sharing all these great points. Never meant to disagree but only reacted out of surprise. Really appreciate it.
Thanks @legalfalcon for the detailed message. That helps things put into perspective now as I wasn't aware of definitions from IRPA. Thanks again.
@dpenabill Thanks for taking time to type this detailed reply!!
You are correct, she hasn't received any message from IRCC about an interview or anything like that.
Also, you hit the exact point that I was asking which was about RO. i.e. even if IRCC was conducting anything in the background then it already gave the sponsor additional time to fulfill her gap of 50 days. Now this may or may not go in her favor as only time will tell that.
But yes, withdrawing the application won't do any good if something is already happening in the background. About sponsorship eligibility stage (whether In-Canada or outside Canada) , should she order GCMS notes to see where the application stands? She should have received sponsorship eligibility letter by now but since she hasn't, things look dicy here.
To be clear, in addition to NOT being an expert, I have NOT been keeping up with information about immigration applications (my focus tends to be issues related to keeping PR and applying for grant citizenship), and in particular I am NOT up-to-date on the spousal sponsorship procedure. I do not know anything about current timelines for those kinds of applications.
That noted, I tend to agree the sponsorship eligibility letter should have been received in less than nine months. How much less I do not know. Even whether this is so, I am less than confident.
BUT if that is taking longer than it should, that may be cause for concern. However, in the absence of any notice or requests from IRCC, the primary objective is to GET IN COMPLIANCE with the Residency Obligation. Which is about staying in Canada and waiting until she is in compliance before engaging with IRCC further (other than responding to any IRCC requests or notices).
It is important to make sure her contact information is correct. Probably no need for a copy of GCMS . . . a help centre telephone call to inquire as to status probably should suffice. Main thing to check for is to make sure she has not missed an important request or notice. (And if none have been missed, good, then she WAITS until she is in compliance with the RO, and AFTER that start looking at pushing the sponsorship application and making a PR card application.)
I hesitate to speculate about what is actually happening, since the variables and possibilities are so numerous, but it is possible the sponsorship application is subject to a hold of some sort pending a review of her admissibility.
IN ANY EVENT . . . so long as she is confident she has NOT missed any requests or notices from IRCC, the prudent approach is probably to simply WAIT two more months or so before pushing anything or applying further for anything.