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Email from CIC that PR card renewal needs secondary review

marinka999

Newbie
May 2, 2016
3
0
CanadianME said:
If you are under secondary review, no urgent processing for you! I'm in secondary review and submitted my tickets 2 months ago and nothing happened not even an email to confirm receiving my request!.
Thank you for your reply.
So there are 2 options for application under SR:
1. Applying for a travel document outside of Canada (from Russia, in my case). I find this option risky... Although I fulfilled my RO, you never know what the officer may decide... Could anyone share their experience in getting this document?
or
2. Crossing a US-Canadian border by car. I could not find official information re what documents are required to cross the border. Could someone send me the link, please?

Also, is there official information on CIC site that SR applications are not eligible for the urgent review request?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,436
3,183
marinka999 said:
So there are 2 options for application under SR:
1. Applying for a travel document outside of Canada (from Russia, in my case). I find this option risky... Although I fulfilled my RO, you never know what the officer may decide... Could anyone share their experience in getting this document?
or
2. Crossing a US-Canadian border by car. I could not find official information re what documents are required to cross the border. Could someone send me the link, please?

Also, is there official information on CIC site that SR applications are not eligible for the urgent review request?
As suggested by CanadianME, it at least seems unlikely that someone whose PR card application has been deferred to Secondary Review (IRCC uses the term "referred" but given the inordinately excessive processing time, "deferred" is more apt) will be given urgent processing. However, there is no overt regulation or such which prohibits urgent processing, and at least one participant here has reported receiving the PR card relatively soon after making a request for urgent processing, despite being in SR (but note that the timeline in that instance was already well over a year, as I recall, and that individual's case may have been approaching a final decision even if the request for urgent processing had not been made).

I have no personal experience applying for a PR TD.

That said, in addition to following the reports in this and other forums for years, however, I have read scores of actual cases as reported in official decisions. (And I have cited and linked many of them in posts in other topics here.)

Obviously, if IRCC has concerns leading to SR, the visa office which handles an application for a PR TD will also examine and consider those concerns (and yes, they will see the file and the notes, including any and all concerns). That said, how things are likely to go when applying for the PR TD depend a lot on the individual PR's circumstances and history. Hint: barely meeting the PR Residency Obligation does not make for a good case.

Note: if you are abroad and apply for a PR TD, that is essentially the whole ball game. Your PR status will depend on how that goes. If a PR TD is issued, that does not guarantee you will be issued your new PR card soon after returning to Canada, but it is almost certain your PR status is not at risk (unless there is some other admissibility concern, such as an investigation into misrepresentations previously made at a PoE upon returning to Canada, as just one example of some other potential issues). If the application for a PR TD is denied, PR status will be lost unless you appeal and are successful in the appeal. Thus, in effect, the PR card application becomes totally irrelevant if you are denied a PR TD.

In short: if you apply for a PR TD, for the most part you will retain or lose PR status depending on the outcome of that.

While the risk of an adverse decision may be greater in some countries, the risk is mostly tied to the facts and circumstances in the individual PR's situation and history, dependent of course on submitting sufficient proof in the PR TD application.


Travel via the U.S.:

For the PR who can arrange to travel via the U.S., and arrange to travel to the border by private vehicle, at the PoE all the PR needs to do is present proof of identity (valid passport) and proof of PR status (CoPR, expired PR card, even communication with IRCC with client number on it), and that will suffice to obtain entry into Canada.

However, the PR may be questioned some about admissibility, including in particular compliance with the PR RO, and if referred to secondary for this, the examining officer has access to much of the PR's information including concerns in the PR card application processing. If the examining officer ascertains that the PR is not in compliance with the PR RO, the PR may be issued a 44(1) Report at the PoE. Obviously, how this goes depends on the particular PR's history. For a PR who is still cutting it close, better to carry actual proof of time in Canada (and carry this in one's hands, not left in the car if and when referred to secondary at the PoE, and be sure it is close to hand as one approaches the PoE . . . there is no time to dig into bags to retrieve papers and digging into bags after being referred to secondary tends to cause the border officers to get very nervous and suspicious -- they expect those referred to secondary to park the vehicle and directly proceed to the secondary counter).

There is insufficient reporting to draw a firm conclusion, but I wonder whether IRCC might more or less deliberately allow delayed processing of SR cases anticipating that those PRs who have not actually settled permanently in Canada will be more or less compelled to go abroad, because that is where their life is centralized, or their means of earning a living is located, and then the PR will have to either apply for a PR TD to return to Canada or at least face a Residency examination at the PoE upon their next return to Canada. That is, I wonder whether the delay is in part a way to force PRs to, so to say, play-their-hand.



Frankly, many PRs with PR card applications in SD may want to carefully consider the risks involved in traveling abroad.

How risky it is to travel depends on how strong your evidence of compliance with the PR Residency Obligation is (assuming there are no other admissibility issues at stake, such as criminality or investigation into potential misrepresentations, such as at a PoE when returning to Canada).

There is a tendency for some PRs to take for granted that reaching the 730+ days threshold means they should automatically be recognized as in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. Not sure why so many overlook the obvious: that cutting it close is cutting it close, with predictable implications.

The most glaring implication is that any PR who has been outside Canada more than in Canada is more or less likely to appear NOT to have settled permanently in Canada (it seems more than a few overlook the significance of what "permanent" means in being a "Permanent Resident"), and in particular, if there is any concern about any of the time the PR reports having been in Canada, in the absence of direct, objective proof the PR was in Canada during that time the reasonable inference is that the PR was where he or she was most of the time: outside Canada.

The arithmetic is simple: fewer than 913 days in Canada means out of Canada more than in Canada. The lower the number of days-in-Canada, the more important it is to have clear, direct, objective proof of actually being in Canada.



In any event, if you elect to travel: Either way, that is whether planning to apply for a PR TD or to travel via the U.S. to return to Canada, at the least gather some evidence and do some things shortly before leaving, so that you can easily show you were in Canada from last September until leaving in July, to show this in addition to carrying proof you have of presence in Canada for 730+ days in the five years prior to September 17, 2015.
 

davidT321

Full Member
Feb 24, 2016
27
0
marinka999 said:
Could anyone share their experience in getting this document?
First ,its very costly ! second you must present around 1 kg documents proving your status,third there is no any guarantee that document will be issued and fourth, you need to wait a month or two.
Also,when you return on the airport you will be examined thoroughly by immigration officials again :)
 

amr95

Full Member
Jul 31, 2012
31
0
dpenabill said:
As suggested by CanadianME, it at least seems unlikely that someone whose PR card application has been deferred to Secondary Review (IRCC uses the term "referred" but given the inordinately excessive processing time, "deferred" is more apt) will be given urgent processing. However, there is no overt regulation or such which prohibits urgent processing, and at least one participant here has reported receiving the PR card relatively soon after making a request for urgent processing, despite being in SR (but note that the timeline in that instance was already well over a year, as I recall, and that individual's case may have been approaching a final decision even if the request for urgent processing had not been made).

I have no personal experience applying for a PR TD.

That said, in addition to following the reports in this and other forums for years, however, I have read scores of actual cases as reported in official decisions. (And I have cited and linked many of them in posts in other topics here.)

Obviously, if IRCC has concerns leading to SR, the visa office which handles an application for a PR TD will also examine and consider those concerns (and yes, they will see the file and the notes, including any and all concerns). That said, how things are likely to go when applying for the PR TD depend a lot on the individual PR's circumstances and history. Hint: barely meeting the PR Residency Obligation does not make for a good case.

Note: if you are abroad and apply for a PR TD, that is essentially the whole ball game. Your PR status will depend on how that goes. If a PR TD is issued, that does not guarantee you will be issued your new PR card soon after returning to Canada, but it is almost certain your PR status is not at risk (unless there is some other admissibility concern, such as an investigation into misrepresentations previously made at a PoE upon returning to Canada, as just one example of some other potential issues). If the application for a PR TD is denied, PR status will be lost unless you appeal and are successful in the appeal. Thus, in effect, the PR card application becomes totally irrelevant if you are denied a PR TD.

In short: if you apply for a PR TD, for the most part you will retain or lose PR status depending on the outcome of that.

While the risk of an adverse decision may be greater in some countries, the risk is mostly tied to the facts and circumstances in the individual PR's situation and history, dependent of course on submitting sufficient proof in the PR TD application.


Travel via the U.S.:

For the PR who can arrange to travel via the U.S., and arrange to travel to the border by private vehicle, at the PoE all the PR needs to do is present proof of identity (valid passport) and proof of PR status (CoPR, expired PR card, even communication with IRCC with client number on it), and that will suffice to obtain entry into Canada.

However, the PR may be questioned some about admissibility, including in particular compliance with the PR RO, and if referred to secondary for this, the examining officer has access to much of the PR's information including concerns in the PR card application processing. If the examining officer ascertains that the PR is not in compliance with the PR RO, the PR may be issued a 44(1) Report at the PoE. Obviously, how this goes depends on the particular PR's history. For a PR who is still cutting it close, better to carry actual proof of time in Canada (and carry this in one's hands, not left in the car if and when referred to secondary at the PoE, and be sure it is close to hand as one approaches the PoE . . . there is no time to dig into bags to retrieve papers and digging into bags after being referred to secondary tends to cause the border officers to get very nervous and suspicious -- they expect those referred to secondary to park the vehicle and directly proceed to the secondary counter).

There is insufficient reporting to draw a firm conclusion, but I wonder whether IRCC might more or less deliberately allow delayed processing of SR cases anticipating that those PRs who have not actually settled permanently in Canada will be more or less compelled to go abroad, because that is where their life is centralized, or their means of earning a living is located, and then the PR will have to either apply for a PR TD to return to Canada or at least face a Residency examination at the PoE upon their next return to Canada. That is, I wonder whether the delay is in part a way to force PRs to, so to say, play-their-hand.



Frankly, many PRs with PR card applications in SD may want to carefully consider the risks involved in traveling abroad.

How risky it is to travel depends on how strong your evidence of compliance with the PR Residency Obligation is (assuming there are no other admissibility issues at stake, such as criminality or investigation into potential misrepresentations, such as at a PoE when returning to Canada).

There is a tendency for some PRs to take for granted that reaching the 730+ days threshold means they should automatically be recognized as in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. Not sure why so many overlook the obvious: that cutting it close is cutting it close, with predictable implications.

The most glaring implication is that any PR who has been outside Canada more than in Canada is more or less likely to appear NOT to have settled permanently in Canada (it seems more than a few overlook the significance of what "permanent" means in being a "Permanent Resident"), and in particular, if there is any concern about any of the time the PR reports having been in Canada, in the absence of direct, objective proof the PR was in Canada during that time the reasonable inference is that the PR was where he or she was most of the time: outside Canada.

The arithmetic is simple: fewer than 913 days in Canada means out of Canada more than in Canada. The lower the number of days-in-Canada, the more important it is to have clear, direct, objective proof of actually being in Canada.



In any event, if you elect to travel: Either way, that is whether planning to apply for a PR TD or to travel via the U.S. to return to Canada, at the least gather some evidence and do some things shortly before leaving, so that you can easily show you were in Canada from last September until leaving in July, to show this in addition to carrying proof you have of presence in Canada for 730+ days in the five years prior to September 17, 2015.
I respect this opinion but the point remains the same. This assumes that all PR's have the flexibility to immediately move to Canada as soon as they become PRs which is not true for most applicants. A lot of people cannot move to Canada right away for work/family obligations or simply because they haven't found jobs to support themselves and their families in Canada. So to automatically assume that someone who spent more time outside than inside is trying to abuse the system is unfair to many people.

It's true that the Canadian immigration system is a abused by many applicants especially in the past and the government does have every right to make sure those who do that are dealt with accordingly but with the new technology (shared border info, CBSA reports, access to CRA info...etc), it doesn't take that much to make sure someone has satisfied their PR obligation. i mean even manually going through passport stamps shouldn't take that much time. It certainly shouldn't take 1+ year to do that. Not only that but the lack of transparency on IRCC's part is also very frustrating to many individuals. At the end of the day, a Canadian PR who spent 2+ years working here and paying taxes does have the right to know why their application is stuck in secondary review and what can be done to move it along.

IRCC clearly states that the residency obligation is 730 days in five years and a PR can spend up to 3 years outside Canada. This is indeed very generous but to put the renewal applications of anyone who spent those 3 years outside Canada on hold is just misleading. If IRCC believes that this obligation is too lenient and makes it easy to abuse the system then why not just amend the law and enforce a stricter obligation like what happened with Bill C-24 for example ? Why not just go back to the old obligation of 6 months/1 year ?

Just an opinion that I felt like sharing because it's truly disheartening to feel that your life is on hold when in fact you did satisfy your residency obligation.
 

barabashka

Star Member
Jan 30, 2013
92
1
amr95 said:
IRCC clearly states that the residency obligation is 730 days in five years and a PR can spend up to 3 years outside Canada. This is indeed very generous but to put the renewal applications of anyone who spent those 3 years outside Canada on hold is just misleading. If IRCC believes that this obligation is too lenient and makes it easy to abuse the system then why not just amend the law and enforce a stricter obligation...
I totally agree with this. One should play by the rules, but not by preferences.
Some abuse the system, others adjust their lifestyle, work pattern and so on to the rules. It is impossible to adjust and follow the unpublished and undeclared preferences.
I disagree that one should avoid international travel while in secondary review. Yes, of course, travel should be documented properly (but this could be as simple as keeping your boarding passes, bus tickets, or insisting that your passport is stamped).
But if one meets RO (even with small number of extra days, rules are rules!), has the travel properly documented, then why not to travel? We live once, no need to decrease the quality of life because of some unclear "preferences".
 

marinka999

Newbie
May 2, 2016
3
0
All, thank you very much for your replies and opinions. I met my RO and definitely did not expect that SR would hold me from travelling home:(
I guess the safest way would be just staying in Canada and wait, wait, wait...
 

CMcanada

Full Member
Mar 22, 2016
22
0
I am in the process of buying an house, however I have a doubt, my PR expired (waiting for my PR to be renewal after secondary review since July,2015) should influence to have a mortgage approved ?
 

AJK_9

Hero Member
Jun 30, 2012
266
19
CMcanada said:
I am in the process of buying an house, however I have a doubt, my PR expired (waiting for my PR to be renewal after secondary review since July,2015) should influence to have a mortgage approved ?
Hi

You can go ahead for House Purchase, it has nothing to do with renewal

All the best
 

CMcanada

Full Member
Mar 22, 2016
22
0
My friends, I verified today in CIC webpage and my PR was approved on May 03rd, after a long time waiting. I hope I will receive it by this weekend seeing that I will be travelling this Sunday. Following my timeline:

1.We received your application for a permanent resident card on April 23, 2015.
2.We started processing your application on July 28, 2015.
3.We sent you a letter on July 28, 2015. Please consider delays in mail delivery before contacting us.
4.Your request for a permanent resident card was approved on May 3, 2016. Your Permanent resident card will be mailed to you or if quality assurance is required, made available for you to pick up at a CIC office.

Good luck for everyone.
 

Raymond Wei

Newbie
Jul 10, 2015
3
0
Finally, my PR card was approved on May 5.

It seems to me that the online status is not updated in time, and will be delayed for around 10 days. When I checked the status online last Friday May 13, it still shows On Processing.

1.We received your application for a permanent resident card on March 9, 2015.
2.We started processing your application on April 20, 2015.
3.We sent you a letter on April 22, 2015. Please consider delays in mail delivery before contacting us.
4.Your request for a permanent resident card was approved on May 5, 2016. Your Permanent resident card will be mailed to you or if quality assurance is required, made available for you to pick up at a CIC office.

Good luck to you guys!

Raymond
 

barabashka

Star Member
Jan 30, 2013
92
1
Congrats Both!
Wow, there was nothing for months, and two approvals now at the same time - hopefully they are starting to clear the backlog. It does not look like they are doing it in any particular order though (given that one application was early March, another end of April 2015), but better this way than no way!
 

ramkris

Hero Member
Apr 17, 2010
662
17
Category........
Visa Office......
NEW DELHI
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
16-Aug-2013
File Transfer...
13-Sep-2013
Med's Done....
1-Aug-2013
Passport Req..
26-Sep-2013
VISA ISSUED...
19-Apr-2014
LANDED..........
soon
Raymond Wei said:
Finally, my PR card was approved on May 5.

It seems to me that the online status is not updated in time, and will be delayed for around 10 days. When I checked the status online last Friday May 13, it still shows On Processing.

1.We received your application for a permanent resident card on March 9, 2015.
2.We started processing your application on April 20, 2015.
3.We sent you a letter on April 22, 2015. Please consider delays in mail delivery before contacting us.
4.Your request for a permanent resident card was approved on May 5, 2016. Your Permanent resident card will be mailed to you or if quality assurance is required, made available for you to pick up at a CIC office.

Good luck to you guys!

Raymond
In between Did you receive any letter to submit documents if so what documents did they ask?
 

heeradeepak

Hero Member
Jun 1, 2014
398
11
barabashka said:
Congrats Both!
Wow, there was nothing for months, and two approvals now at the same time - hopefully they are starting to clear the backlog. It does not look like they are doing it in any particular order though (given that one application was early March, another end of April 2015), but better this way than no way!
it seems that they woke up after long sleep.