Education and language requirements for foreign spouses

[civic]

It is legitimate to crack down on "marriages of convenience" because that has been a problem in the past. But if the marriage is true and genuine it should always be allowed.

So CIC looks at low education spouses as having illegitimate relationships with Canadian spouses just to gain entry

Only rich, well educated, those who speak English deserve to be here because this is heaven and Stephen Harper is St. Peter?

 

[keesio]

So CIC looks at low education spouses as having illegitimate relationships with Canadian spouses just to gain entry

Only rich, well educated, those who speak English deserve to be here because this is heaven and Stephen Harper is St. Peter?

Don't forget French btw.

Well I guess they would make public what are already unofficial policies that have been around forever. CIC already looks at gaps in education and language (in addition to age, finances and other) between sponsor and applicant.

And we all know that instances where the applicant is coming from a poorer country with lower education and finances are already viewed suspiciously. That is why applicants in some visa offices are scrutinized than others.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

FYI, all PRs in Canada today actually have several different types and levels of language classes that they can enroll in, completely free of charge. Here in Toronto they are offered through the public libraries.

Fair enough if the programs already in place would address such a requirement. My understanding of the available classes was that they are not actual standardized pass/fail ESL courses (or the French equivalent) but more of a helpful "show up when and if you can" option. I can't say it's something I've ever looked into very deeply.

 

[Hello121]

This is absurd. Canada receives many of it's immigrants from countries with very low social mobility, in fact, I believe many still have somewhat of a caste system. Being educated and speaking English hardly guarantees Canada will receive an intelligent immigrant.

CIC should have them pass IQ and aptitude tests. :/

 

[Hello121]

Fair enough if the programs already in place would address such a requirement. My understanding of the available classes was that they are not actual standardized pass/fail ESL courses (or the French equivalent) but more of a helpful "show up when and if you can" option. I can't say it's something I've ever looked into very deeply.

You are correct. Unfortunately, many immigrants don't take advantage of these free courses. Perhaps they should be mandatory.

 

[agarand8]

This is absolutely the most upsetting thing I have read in a long time.

I am a 24 year old female Canadian, with 1 year university education from a middle class family.
My husband is 37 years old, male, Costa Rican, with a grade 5 education from a near poverty situation in a rural community in his country.
His education is not equal to his intelligence nor is his level of English speaking ability.

There are free English classes offered about an hour from where Gerald lives, but there is not public transportation at that time of day so it would not be free because he would have to pay for transportation, which he cannot afford. He lives in a very touristy area which means that things like transportation and the paid English classes are marked up in price. Transportation because the tourists can afford it, and English classes because knowing English will get you a better paying job and so why offer it for cheap? You want to speak English, you have to pay. If these new standards were implemented, I would not be able to bring Gerald into Canada. They are suggesting that this is for his own safety? That he will be better off to stay in his rural, near poverty living situation with $2/hour wages and substandard medical care? If I was not assisting him financially, my 37 year old husband, who has worked hard all his life, would be living with his mother in a small broken down home, that we would refer to as a shack, that was given to her 20 years ago by her sister.

Are these proposed changes really there to "protect" my husband, or are they there because a bunch of disgruntled baby boomers are upset that their teenager can't get a job at the local McDonalds, or even mowing lawns in the neighbourhood, because "foreigners are taking all the jobs." When in reality, my husband will work harder than any Canadian teenager, any day of the week and would deserve the job more.

As for the so-called "reasons" for these changes....
Suggesting that higher educated people are not abused nor are they abusive because of their education, is an entirely niave statement.
Suggesting that because someone doesn't speak a certain language means that they don't know their rights or that they don't know how to ask for help is naive as well.
Anyone who knows someone who has been in an abusive situation, knows this.

This is just an excuse for the conservatives to not have to put more money into free programs for immigrants and battered spouses, and just another of the million reasons that I won't ever vote conservative as long as I live.

 

[mikeymyke]

I don't think they need classes anyway, the spouses can always teach them. My wife's English, although was good when I first met her, has improved significantly the more we talk. Even for someone who does not speak any English and has no background, even just teaching them "thank you", "please", "i'm lost", etc goes a long way. My parents, who were refugees from Vietnam 30 years ago, did not speak any English when they landed here, but after 3 years, they were able to converse pretty well, and they only have Grade 9 Education. Taking classes helps, but I think interacting with the community more and more will naturally improve any one's English.

My parents did tell me one important thing, and I agree with them based on my experiences with other immigrants. It's very easy for immigrants to hang out with their own communities and groups all the time, as it's comforting and familiar (ex. Chinese immigrants hanging out with other Chinese), but this is not a good thing in the long run, because you will become so dependent on them, that you will have a hard time adjusting to the rest of society, people should try to branch out to other communities. My dad said he always stayed near Vietnamese people when he landed, but he realized they weren't really helping him with his English, as they spoke Vietnamese all the time, and he wasn't able to learn more about Canadian culture and the way they do things through them, so he started to converse more with the people at work who had different ethnic backgrounds, and as a result, his English improved a lot in a short time, and he adjusted very well to Canada. And bear in mind, he has only Grade 9 Education and he worked as a janitor.

 

[agarand8]

I don't think they need classes anyway, the spouses can always teach them. My wife's English, although was good when I first met her, has improved significantly the more we talk. Even for someone who does not speak any English and has no background, even just teaching them "thank you", "please", "i'm lost", etc goes a long way. My parents, who were refugees from Vietnam 30 years ago, did not speak any English when they landed here, but after 3 years, they were able to converse pretty well, and they only have Grade 9 Education. Taking classes helps, but I think interacting with the community more and more will naturally improve any one's English.

My parents did tell me one important thing, and I agree with them based on my experiences with other immigrants. It's very easy for immigrants to hang out with their own communities and groups all the time, as it's comforting and familiar (ex. Chinese immigrants hanging out with other Chinese), but this is not a good thing in the long run, because you will become so dependent on them, that you will have a hard time adjusting to the rest of society, people should try to branch out to other communities. My dad said he always stayed near Vietnamese people when he landed, but he realized they weren't really helping him with his English, as they spoke Vietnamese all the time, and he wasn't able to learn more about Canadian culture and the way they do things through them, so he started to converse more with the people at work who had different ethnic backgrounds, and as a result, his English improved a lot in a short time, and he adjusted very well to Canada. And bear in mind, he has only Grade 9 Education and he worked as a janitor.

Yes, exactly this. When I learned Spanish, I had taken classes in high school but all I had was a basic vocabulary and verb conjugation abilities. I learned all of my Spanish from speaking with Gerald and from integration when I was living down there. Honestly, knowing that my husband hasn't been in a classroom since grade 5, I don't even know if formal lessons will help him. I only really expect his English to significantly improve upon integration after he lands. I'm the only one in my family to speak Spanish and Regina doesn't have a very big community from Latin America so he's going to be forced from day 1. He knows some simple phrases and vocabulary already and he genuinely wants to learn English so I expect that he will learn pretty quickly.

 

[keesio]

My parents did tell me one important thing, and I agree with them based on my experiences with other immigrants. It's very easy for immigrants to hang out with their own communities and groups all the time, as it's comforting and familiar (ex. Chinese immigrants hanging out with other Chinese), but this is not a good thing in the long run, because you will become so dependent on them, that you will have a hard time adjusting to the rest of society, people should try to branch out to other communities. My dad said he always stayed near Vietnamese people when he landed, but he realized they weren't really helping him with his English, as they spoke Vietnamese all the time, and he wasn't able to learn more about Canadian culture and the way they do things through them, so he started to converse more with the people at work who had different ethnic backgrounds, and as a result, his English improved a lot in a short time, and he adjusted very well to Canada.

You are bang on. Basically foreign spouses who marry a Canadian/PR who is not a native speaker of their language will pick up the local language fairly quickly. And even if both do speak the same language fluently, if they are in a smaller town or a part of town where they are not a lot of people that do speak their language, then the spouse will pick up the local language fairly quickly. Especially if he/she is a professional that requires doing business in the local language. The people who struggle are the people who are in the environment you described - married to a spouse of the same background/language and settle in a community where there is big population of speakers of the home language. My dad is a good example. Lived in the US for over 40 years. Speaks minimal English. Why? My parents are Korean and lives in Queens, NYC where there are very large numbers of Koreans. He opened a business that didn't require a lot of English knowledge. My mom worked as a health professional that required her to speak English. Hence her English is very good.

Obviously setting in a community that has many of your same ethnic background can help the transition to setting here immensely. But the drawback is slow integration.

 

[Hello121]

This is absolutely the most upsetting thing I have read in a long time.

Same here. They are relentless on the family class.