Dual Intent

[Rasha]

I was thinking on this subject and was speaking with someone in Immigration [off book] about this topic a while back. Hopefully PMM can also share some experience with this...

but a recent conversation I had with someone online made me want to add something for everyone to consider.

The reason that most TRV's (an any other temp visa) of sponsored spouses and potential sponsorees are refused has to do with Dual Intent. If a person enters the country as a visitor, but with the intent to apply in-land once in Canada..that is dual intent, and is grounds for refusal. I am not speaking of the people who get a visitor's visa to come and marry and go back [although you should be honest in your application for that visa], and doing otherwise (beign untruthful) could be grounds for any future visas to be denied should they suspect you were dishonest about obtaining that earlier visa.

Just be honest and be careful...that's my opinion anyway. As I said earlier, perhaps PMM can share some valued information as well - should anyone have any questions.

 

[JamesM]

This was a question I was going to ask in the coming months.

I will be entering Canada on a visitors visa and staying for 9 weeks in total. It is my full intention to fly back home after those 9 weeks. I will be getting married while I'm in Canada. Should I say that the main reason for my trip is my marriage? Is this not a big red flag for actually getting past customs & immigration at the airport?

 

[MARLENA]

When my husband entered Canada on a visitor visa. He was asked if we are getting married. We both said no but if it happened we would let them know when he leaves back to his country after his visit. In my opinion it's a tricky question and depends on IO how he sees it.

 

[Rasha]

James - there are many who have done that - said that they are visiting a friend, gotten married and then left. BUT that's a lie...and if ever questioned on it again, could come back to haunt you and even possibly cause a refusal of your case. In the application itself it will ask where you have travelled for the past 10 years...they will see Canada - if you are a country that requires a visa, once you apply, your previous cases (visas) are open to them to review and scrutinize.

Perhaps PMM can shed some light on this as well. Myself, I would be honest. I personally know three people who have received visitor's visa for marriage. They were arranged marraiges, there was proof they were going back etc...they had things in place to show their ties to their home country, and immigration was satisfied and granted them, and they relayed they were coming for marriage etc... .

 

[MARLENA]

My husband was granted to visit Canada 3 times and was asked the same question but never provided a positive answer. If it was considered as a lie in my opinion he should be refused the 2nd and 3rd time when he applied for a visitor visa.

 

[Leon]

When you are coming for marriage, you absolutely could be visiting a friend although it may be more of a boy- or girlfriend. You may not know how the relationship developes and if you will actually get married during that 6 month visa. If they were to ask you about that later, say they would say you lied because you said you were visiting a friend, that would be a perfectly reasonable explanation.

 

[elfut]

Dual Intent

How about for those who is not married yet? For example, to be in a relationship and living together for at least a year? And to have intent to live with the sponsor for a year while on visitor's visa...applicant has been going in and out of Canada every six months before they can qualify as Common-Law and have been living together?
The scenario is, applicant come to Canada who doesn't need a visitor visa and is allowed to stay for at least 6 months, living together, shared bills and apartment bills/names, applicant had to leave country after 6 months and then return back within a few weeks and live another 6 months then applied in-land and extent his/her visa. Is that intention a red flag?

and at every time customs officer ask applicant why the reason to enter Canada is to visit gf/bf.
is that a lie? Is there anything wrong to visit gf/bf and then live together and then applied as common law?

 

[MARLENA]

Leon in your opinion if we are questioned at the port of entry about the intention of getting married we should deny.

 

[yasirmajid]

Q: I am engaged to a woman in Vietnam. I’ve been doing some research online and understand that Canada no longer has a fiancée class. Should I have my fiancée come here as a visitor and have her apply for permanent residence from within Canada? Or should I go to Vietnam to get married and then sponsor her? Which option is better?

A: Your question is more complicated than you think … for reasons you may not have considered.

Of course, you are right about the fiancée class. It was killed off in June 2002. Since then, couples can no longer process their immigration applications at the same time that they are making their wedding preparations. Now they must wait until they are actually married before filing an application. This has unnecessarily forced a lengthy separation on many couples at precisely the time when they should be building a new life together.

The reasons for this change have never been adequately explained by Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC). This development persists as one of the most regressive amendments to the 2002 overhaul of our immigration laws. In contrast, the American government also tightened up its immigration laws after 9/11, but did not drop the fiancée class.

Obviously, it's almost always more desirable for people in your situation to bring their fiancées here to get married and start the process from within Canada. But many make a terrible mistake when they do so. The word that people hear on the street is that when you apply for a visitor’s visa at a Canadian visa post oversees, you shouldn’t tell them that you are engaged since this will almost certainly lead to the refusal of the application.

Applicants who follow this advice often conjure up unrelated or false reasons for coming to Canada. If successful, however, a marriage ceremony is usually held here soon after the fiancée arrives and is then quickly followed by an inland spousal sponsorship.

Now the couple faces a serious dilemma.

The application forms ask for details about the evolution of the relationship. How you met, where you met and when you met. If you tell the truth, this will inevitably lead to the question “Why didn’t your fiancée mention your relationship when she applied for a visitor’s visa?” CIC will likely use the withholding of this information to substantiate a finding that you and your fiancée lack credibility.

CIC may also reason that if you were prepared to lie once for immigration-related reasons, you may be lying now in connection with your application for permanent residence. This could easily lead to a refusal of the application. If you lie and say you met her here, you will have to abandon real evidence about your relationship in favour of weaker, fabricated evidence.

Since this would be an inland sponsorship, as opposed to an overseas sponsorship, you will have no right to appeal to the Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada (IRB). Instead, your only recourse will be to appeal the federal courts, where your chances of success are likely to be a fraction of what they would have been with the IRB.

By all means, try bringing your fiancée here as a visitor. Make sure that she discloses that she is engaged to you. In my view, her visitor’s visa application will be a bit of long shot since the Canadian High Commission in Singapore will be more inclined to refuse it than to accept it.

However, at least she won’t mess up her chances of living permanently with you in Canada.

Source ... Guidy Mamann (Immigration Lawyer)

Regards
Yasir Majid
Link2Canada.ca

 

[Rasha]

Elfut,

I'm American and frequented Canada in that same capacity - I was honest and upfront and was never denied entry. I would prefer to air on the side of caution with FULL disclosure, and let the chips fall where they may. It has been my experience that an I/O is far more amenable and less misunderstandings can be construed when everyone is one the same page.

These grey areas that Marlena and some of the others speak of, are completely open to interpretion by the I/O reviewing the case, and if there is any question...the final decision is in the hands of the I/O determining the case.

I would hate to see someone get a TRV, come, get married and have their actual sponsorship denied due to lack of disclosure, or dual intent [coming on one visa, and applying inland for another]....and thus the reason for my post [as someone had asked me some questions about it ...]. At least be wise and knowledgeable about what you are doing, and weigh the risks, pro and con.

Leon, I understand what you are saying, but such an argument could still be denied, then what is the course of action?

N.B. The other issue people must consider too is that if you apply in-land your waive the right to appeal, should your case be denied......

 

[Leon]

I have never ever heard of a sponsorship being denied because the person came in on a visit visa and didn't state they were going to get married. If a sponsorship is denied, it's normally because immigration doesn't believe the relationship is real or there are problems with the sponsor such as having been on social assistance or possibly criminal status of either sponsor or spouse.

 

[mingus]

Word of warning about using the word "friend". When I wrote my husband his invitation letter I described him as my friend who wanted to come for a visit. At the time he was just that - a friend. He was refused a visitors visa and about 3 months later I went to visit him and we got married. During his interview, it was brought up that he had applied for a TRV and that I had said he was a friend and why didn't I say he was boy friend or my husband to be. He explained that at that time we were neither of those but the IO did not accept his answer. Be very careful how you word things, it can come back to bit you.

 

[Rasha]

Word of warning about using the word "friend". When I wrote my husband his invitation letter I described him as my friend who wanted to come for a visit. At the time he was just that - a friend. He was refused a visitors visa and about 3 months later I went to visit him and we got married. During his interview, it was brought up that he had applied for a TRV and that I had said he was a friend and why didn't I say he was boy friend or my husband to be. He explained that at that time we were neither of those but the IO did not accept his answer. Be very careful how you word things, it can come back to bit you.

Mingus your situation is exactly what I have heard many times actually....

 

[JamesM]

I do not need to apply for a visitor visa. From past experiences it's just about convincing the boarder guard at the airport that I am going to leave and not work illegally. But should I mention that I'm getting married? Or just visiting my girlfriend and friends?

 

[elfut]

I have never ever heard of a sponsorship being denied because the person came in on a visit visa and didn't state they were going to get married. If a sponsorship is denied, it's normally because immigration doesn't believe the relationship is real or there are problems with the sponsor such as having been on social assistance or possibly criminal status of either sponsor or spouse.

I quoted and agree on what you noted. (If a sponsorship is denied, it's normally because immigration doesn't believe the relationship is real or there are problems with the sponsor such as having been on social assistance or possibly criminal status of either sponsor or spouse.)