"Dual Intent": why are so many afraid to come as visitor with PR in process?

[4maple-1eagle]

I have read through alot of "dual intent" posts at this forum. I was surprised to see so many people adamently advising "don't bring possessions or say anything about your in-process PR app or intention to apply for PR, at the border, if you are coming across as a visitor" or "come across separately from the family" as a visitor. Why is everyone so afraid of "dual intent"?

As I read the "dual intent" stuff in Operational Bulletin 131 (from July 6, 2009), http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/bulletins/2009/ob131.asp ,
the Canadian immigration law seems to be pretty straight-forward on the topic. It is perfectly legitimate for me, for example, (a US Citizen) to have an outland PR application in process (sponsored by the Canadian wife), and for me to come to the border with my whole family (Canadian wife and our 4 canadian citizen kids) and for me to come across as a visitor, while my PR is in process? My wife should even be able to bring all "her" possessions, which she's entitled to.

As I read the law, I should be able to tell the IO that my outland PR app is in process, and I"m coming across as a visitor in the interim. If I have ties back to the US (like owning a property there, having a registered business there, clients there, all family there --- which I do --- ), and can show money to support myself while in Canada, that should be enough, right? We are both self-employed and will not be beholden to some employment in Canada per se that would require some separation if the PR app went sideways.

The only subjective part of the process I can see is that the IO has to be convinced that I'll leave Canada if required to do so (i.e. if my visitor status lapses and is refused renewal before the PR app is accepted, or if its denied, for some crazy reason). I would in fact leave, if required. If I have all kinds of ties to the US, a completely legal no-criminal background, and the obvious need and desire to legally go to and from the US, isn't that enough to convince any IO that I have no reason to try and stay in Canada illegally if for some reason my PR app was delayed 1+ year or refused?

Can anyone point to any experience at the border or actual reason that "dual intent" caused them a problem ?

 

[lnl]

I've never had a problem, passed through twice now while PR application in process and both times said I was visiting my husband whilst we were going through PR process.

 

[canadianwoman]

Can anyone point to any experience at the border or actual reason that "dual intent" caused them a problem ?

Usually Americans don't have any problem coming in. It's just that every once in a while someone will report that they were refused entry, or banned for a year, or whatever. Maybe many of us tend to focus on the worst-case scenarios.
The real problem with dual-intent is getting the visa officers at overseas embassies to apply the rules. It's true that the regulations say dual intent is legitimate, but in reality TRV applicants from poorer countries are routinely denied, even though their case may be a text-book example of the kind of situation where the dual intent rules should be applied.

 

[janamay1967]

This is a great help! There are many people in the outland Buffalo thread panicking about summer travel plans (me included)! I am goinv to re-post this information there?

JM

 

[cuds]

I never had any problems visiting Canada while our outland PR application was in process. I am from a visa exempt country in Europe, so fly in through Pearson every time. I also went to the States for shopping purposes while being in Canada as a visitor and again; never any problems getting back in.

I do know someone who is also from a visa exempt country, who wanted to visit his Canadian girlfriend while their outland PR application was in process. He was denied entry at the airport because he mentioned that he had shipped his belongings (container) already.

 

[mmshock]

I am an American applying outland through Buffalo and am overreacting terribly in regards to my upcoming visits! Even though I know I have tons of documents proving my ties back and have return tickets every time.

I have lived abroad on a strange island for the past 6 years where bureaucracy, especially immigration officers, have no rhyme nor reason in how they handle situations. You NEED to expect the worst case scenario every time. But I guess that's just it. All we really want to know is the best way to be prepared. And then (hopefully) be pleasantly surprised by how easy it was.

 

[awor]

This is what I've learned from reading posts and us2canada, etc.

If you ship/move your things prior to getting PR, you have to pay duty on everything, so people generally don't go that route. New immigrants are duty exempt for already owned household items they are moving into the country. If you try to cross with your stuff - if they let you in - you'd have to pay duty on all of it.

Additionally, you aren't allowed to "move" to Canada before obtaining PR. So if you tell them you're going through to visit while PR is in process but have everything you own, not only will you be denied entry, but you risk an exclusion order.

It's not an issue if you're visa-exempt, if you have only things you need while visiting, and have your sponsor with you. Basically, tell the truth and plan to go back to your home country for your belongings after your PR is approved and things will be ok.

 

[kavya]

Hay friends,

Its really halpful information at this thread, I am visitor of this thread. However, I just need some help from you guys.

I have my PR file in RBVO and now I want to apply for student visa for PhD at Qubec. I got home ties like my family and husband.

Can anyone help me to give some strong points to put in my SOP.

Many thanks,

Kavya

 

[kavya]

In other words, In our SOP can we make good explanation with bullet points instead of any story type pera's. I mean I am finding difficulty to make a good flow of all the points I can mention them

 

[Bangkokcanuck]

Can anyone point to any experience at the border or actual reason that "dual intent" caused them a problem ?

I have already been told by the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok to not bother wasting the time applying for a Visitor's Visa as it will be denied.. I realize she is from a NON Visa Exempt country so likely that is the difference but it's still discrimination to paint everyone from the same country with ONE brush.. and an unflattering one at that.

More interestingly of course is that she received TWO visitor's visas before the application was filed

 

[canadianwoman]

This is the problem with dual intent. The government says it exists. If an MP brings up some situation in his/her home riding where parents from India, say, can't get a TRV to come visit their children, the gov't officials always say that there is no discrimination and that parents who are waiting years for a PR visa can always come visit on a TRV, as long as they fulfull the requirements, and blah blah blah.

But the fact is, if you need a TRV, but also want a PR, the visa officers almost never take the dual intent regualtions to heart and actually issue a TRV.

 

[PMM]

Hi

This is the problem with dual intent. The government says it exists. If an MP brings up some situation in his/her home riding where parents from India, say, can't get a TRV to come visit their children, the gov't officials always say that there is no discrimination and that parents who are waiting years for a PR visa can always come visit on a TRV, as long as they fulfull the requirements, and blah blah blah.

But the fact is, if you need a TRV, but also want a PR, the visa officers almost never take the dual intent regualtions to heart and actually issue a TRV.

1. I beg to differ, you will find that it is unlikely that spouses will get a TRV under dual intent, but FSW have a good chance, as well as parents.

 

[inlimbo]

An immigration lawyer told me that it is alright for any person from anywhere in the world apply and come to Canada on a visiting visa with the intention of staying in Canada and that an applicant for permanent residence cannot be forced to leave once filing. However, it is preferred that foreign nationals apply outside Canada at the processing office responsible for their area. I suppose this is so that the inland offices don't get bogged down; perhaps to make sure people aren't working illegally while here, as well.
It seems to me that people from certain countries aren't given ample opportunity to visit because of doubt that they will return when their visit is over. I have a hard time not seeing it as discrimination. My husband was actually refused to visit me in Canada to meet my family after I first came back here, which is well before we decided to try living in Canada together. One of the refusal reasons was because of his family ties. 'You can't visit Canada because you have family there.' I still find that shocking and backwards.

Does anyone know if someone in processing for PR can apply for a TRV?

 

[canadianwoman]

Does anyone know if someone in processing for PR can apply for a TRV?

Someone who has applied for a PR can apply for a TRV while he/she waits, but is unlikely to get one. Especially if the applicant was refused a TRV even before applying for a PR, in which case I would say there is no chance.

The gov't prefers people to apply from outside Canada simply because once someone is in Canada, it is hard to get rid of them if the PR application is refused. Lots of people are supposed to leave, but don't. Cases where gov't agents actually apprehend them and escort them onto a plane back home are few.

 

[mossee]

So my husband flew up from California to be with me while we wait for our App. to be processed. He flew up to Bellingham, WA and I picked him up and drove back to BC. I had a copy of my application as well as my Sponsorship approval letter from CIC, he had his bank statements and letters with his California address on it for proof of his ties to the USA. We arrived at the customs booth and was sent in to see the VO's inside. I somehow forgot to bring my marriage certificate (DOH!) so she originally asked me to drive home to pick it up while he waited at customs. But then she realized I had already had my sponsorship approval from CIC-M, so she was happy with that. She asked my husband where his "worldly possessions" were, he stated they were at his parents home. Then she said wait one minute, left and came back with a visitor record for 6 months. she told us if we do not get his PR by that time to either come back to the border (which is only 15-20 mins away from my home) or call the number on the back for an extension. Stamped and good to go All those butterflies and anxiety for something that wasn't that scary! LOL

Anyways, just sharing my story and very happy my husband is with me.